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Do you think this team can win the Stanley Cup as currently construed?

Can they win the Stanley Cup?
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:08 p.m.
#1
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:10 p.m.
#2
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Not just this year but in general. And what players need to be brought in?
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:13 p.m.
#3
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No, making the playoffs was gonna be hard enough with injuries that they started with.

More injuries are starting to make that look like fantasy.


Do I want them to make the playoffs?
Yes.

Do I want them to make trades right now increase the chances of that?
Yes, but not any cost.

Do I want the to forget the playoffs and trade Barrie and/or anyone else?
Sign me up, but what is the offer???
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:16 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Not just this year but in general. And what players need to be brought in?


Beyond trading Barrie, I have opened up to trading Dermott.
Kerfoot and Johnsson are obvious guys to trade to either have cap space to sign the magically D man or trade for the magically D man.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:50 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Trickster
No, making the playoffs was gonna be hard enough with injuries that they started with.

More injuries are starting to make that look like fantasy.


Do I want them to make the playoffs?
Yes.

Do I want them to make trades right now increase the chances of that?
Yes, but not any cost.

Do I want the to forget the playoffs and trade Barrie and/or anyone else?
Sign me up, but what is the offer???


I agree I can't see them going far this year, but I can't see them going far the way this team is currently constructed, let me explain... We know that defence is a team game but this team isn't built like that and our current d core isn't good enough to get the job done. Look no further than Andersen finishing top 3 the last three years in shots faced and quality chances against.

I love this team and want to see them win it all but with how inconsistent they are (I realize that comes to most over time) and the lack of focus/effort/insert whatever you want to say here I don't see how that's possible or at least not any time soon. I don't want to see this team wait ten years like Ovi and the caps.

I'm of the belief that we need to trade one of the big 4 for a "magical" d but I do realize how hard and unlikely that is. I thought Dubas would be more open-minded to change but he seems content with rolling with what he's got and trying to patch up the rest.

The whole point of this forum was to open up a conversation about whether or not a move like that is needed. I don't think that someone like Severson is the answer, actually, I think he would become the next scape goat. I think we need someone who can play 25+ minutes a night against other teams top players while covering up for Rielly's mistakes. Don't get me wrong Severson is a good player and just an example but he amongst others in his range aren't enough to tip the scales in our favor IMO.

The reason I want them to miss the playoffs this year is because I don't think they'll go far and want Dubas to at least consider all alternatives and not just try to find someone who's 's upgrade over what we have but someone who can make a difference. I know Freddie has slumped a bit but what do we do when our goaltending takes a hit and our team isn't good enough to overcome the drop off that we'll face.

Do you think I'm out to lunch on this?
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 5:53 p.m.
#6
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Edited Feb. 23, 2020 at 6:38 p.m.
Quoting: Trickster
Beyond trading Barrie, I have opened up to trading Dermott.
Kerfoot and Johnsson are obvious guys to trade to either have cap space to sign the magically D man or trade for the magically D man.


Swinny had the idea to trade Dermott and Bracco for Zacha which I really like, and I'm open to moving one or more of Kerfoot, Johnsson or Kapanen for help but I'm not sure we're going to get the answer we need on D from them. That being said, I do like a trade built around Kerfoot for Brodie if possible.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:14 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
I agree I can't see them going far this year, but I can't see them going far the way this team is currently constructed, let me explain... We know that defence is a team game but this team isn't built like that and our current d core isn't good enough to get the job done. Look no further than Andersen finishing top 3 the last three years in shots faced and quality chances against.

I love this team and want to see them win it all but with how inconsistent they are (I realize that comes to most over time) and the lack of focus/effort/insert whatever you want to say here I don't see how that's possible or at least not any time soon. I don't want to see this team wait ten years like Ovi and the caps.

I'm of the belief that we need to trade one of the big 4 for a "magical" d but I do realize how hard and unlikely that is. I thought Dubas would be more open-minded to change but he seems content with rolling with what he's got and trying to patch up the rest.

The whole point of this forum was to open up a conversation about whether or not a move like that is needed. I don't think that someone like Severson is the answer, actually, I think he would become the next scape goat. I think we need someone who can play 25+ minutes a night against other teams top players while covering up for Rielly's mistakes. Don't get me wrong Severson is a good player and just an example but he amongst others in his range aren't enough to tip the scales in our favor IMO.

The reason I want them to miss the playoffs this year is because I don't think they'll go far and want Dubas to at least consider all alternatives and not just try to find someone who's 's upgrade over what we have but someone who can make a difference. I know Freddie has slumped a bit but what do we do when our goaltending takes a hit and our team isn't good enough to overcome the drop off that we'll face.

Do you think I'm out to lunch on this?


You have basis for your saying.
Supported by facts.

But, I dont think Dubas will stay too much from his plan yet.
Slight adjustment is the likely route.

What does that mean?
Trading 1 or 2 of middle 6 FWs to address our weaknesses, the weakness being our lack defensive play... not just the D.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:19 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Swinny had the idea to trade Dermott and Bracco for Zacha which I really like, and I'm open to moving one or more of Kerfoot, Johnsson or Kapanen for help but I'm not sure we're going to get the answer we need on D from them. That being said, I do like a trade built around Kerfoot for Brodie if possible.


I like Zacha but I think if their is better possibility, dont settle for Zacha.

Brodie, he does not want to be here.
Him having us in his NTC pretty sealed that door shut, plus I really believe he will remain a Flame and Hamonic is the man out of Calgary.


I fear Strecher will become a Leaf or Edmundson will.
At least Strecher is RD but both are about the same in playing ability.
I want neither.

With DeMelo added to Jets he may get extended there and Hamonic might be a real possibility here on 3 year deal.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:24 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Not just this year but in general. And what players need to be brought in?


I think you and I agree on a few things here. I do believe someone (Nylander or Marner) might have to be traded to get the magical RHD because while trading a Kerfoot, Johnsson or even Kapanen might land a D...it's probably not the magical one this team lacks.

Another thing we agree on is Severson. He might be useful for the Leafs but is he a difference maker? I don't believe he is.

The one thing I haven't fully agreed with you on is missing the playoffs. I am starting to think you are right but still mulling over that.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:36 p.m.
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Look at other front-loaded teams. The Pens try to surround their stars with good defensive forwards (Tanev, Rust, McCann, or Bonino before them). For our part, we don't even have a stable 3rd line, and Keefe doesn't seem sure that Kerfoot is our 3C yet.

Our defense has too many similar players. Having a few fast puck-movers is great, but successful teams (Bruins, Caps, Blues) tend to have a bunch of hard-nosed, defensive-minded guys patrolling their blue line. Replace Barrie and another one (maybe Dermott) with defensively focused guys next year would already make it more balanced.

A naive interpretation is that Dubas piled up the skilled and undersized players other teams didn't want, guessing their stats would add up in wins, a la Moneyball. But stats models may not be sophisticated enough yet to predict complex interactions between players. Maybe he'll try to push his idea to the next level, and think we need even more Barries and Malgins. I'll be glad if it works. But I'm not convinced that model will work.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:36 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: oneX
I think you and I agree on a few things here. I do believe someone (Nylander or Marner) might have to be traded to get the magical RHD because while trading a Kerfoot, Johnsson or even Kapanen might land a D...it's probably not the magical one this team lacks.

Another thing we agree on is Severson. He might be useful for the Leafs but is he a difference maker? I don't believe he is.

The one thing I haven't fully agreed with you on is missing the playoffs. I am starting to think you are right but still mulling over that.


Quoting: oneX
I think you and I agree on a few things here. I do believe someone (Nylander or Marner) might have to be traded to get the magical RHD because while trading a Kerfoot, Johnsson or even Kapanen might land a D...it's probably not the magical one this team lacks.

Another thing we agree on is Severson. He might be useful for the Leafs but is he a difference maker? I don't believe he is.

The one thing I haven't fully agreed with you on is missing the playoffs. I am starting to think you are right but still mulling over that.


Severson would be better than any RD on this team right now.

I am not saying he is a world beater though but do we need that? If a team has that, no chance they give that up to is even for the likes of Marner.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 7:44 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Trickster
Severson would be better than any RD on this team right now.

I am not saying he is a world beater though but do we need that? If a team has that, no chance they give that up to is even for the likes of Marner.


Maybe Severson is better than the current D Leafs got...but man...that bar is pretty low. If that's how you measure how good the overall D core is vs where needs to be to win the cup, you will get rude awakening some day.

D core needs to be alot better.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 8:00 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: oneX
Maybe Severson is better than the current D Leafs got...but man...that bar is pretty low. If that's how you measure how good the overall D core is vs where needs to be to win the cup, you will get rude awakening some day.

D core needs to be alot better.


Our D has no bar right now.
That's how bad it is at times.

Learn to walk before running man.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 8:03 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Trickster
Our D has no bar right now.
That's how bad it is at times.

Learn to walk before running man.


Need to add that big piece aka the magical RHD and then him with middle and fringe pairing guys to compliment him and Rielly.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 8:49 p.m.
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Quoting: Trickster
You have basis for your saying.
Supported by facts.

But, I dont think Dubas will stay too much from his plan yet.
Slight adjustment is the likely route.

What does that mean?
Trading 1 or 2 of middle 6 FWs to address our weaknesses, the weakness being our lack defensive play... not just the D.


You're 💯 correct. This was what I think needs to happen in order for this group to take the next step, but I realize that it's unlikely Dubas goes down this route. I like how you added that it's not just our d but the lack of defensive play, so true!
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 8:51 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Trickster
I like Zacha but I think if their is better possibility, dont settle for Zacha.

Brodie, he does not want to be here.
Him having us in his NTC pretty sealed that door shut, plus I really believe he will remain a Flame and Hamonic is the man out of Calgary.


I fear Strecher will become a Leaf or Edmundson will.
At least Strecher is RD but both are about the same in playing ability.
I want neither.

With DeMelo added to Jets he may get extended there and Hamonic might be a real possibility here on 3 year deal.


I get what you're saying but what else do you think we could get for Dermott?

I meant Brodin on Minny... My bad, I don't want Brodie anywhere near our team lol.

I want neither as well.

I would be tickled pink if we could land either DeMelo or Hamonic!
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 8:56 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: oneX
I think you and I agree on a few things here. I do believe someone (Nylander or Marner) might have to be traded to get the magical RHD because while trading a Kerfoot, Johnsson or even Kapanen might land a D...it's probably not the magical one this team lacks.

Another thing we agree on is Severson. He might be useful for the Leafs but is he a difference maker? I don't believe he is.

The one thing I haven't fully agreed with you on is missing the playoffs. I am starting to think you are right but still mulling over that.


You're probably right about missing the playoffs. This team hasn't responded well to getting blown out in general and they can't seem to play at a consistent level. That's one of the main reasons why I find the raps more fun to watch because even if they don't have it offensively they bring it defensively on a nightly basis and play for each other unlike the leafs. They could very well miss the playoffs and play the same way next year.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 9:11 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Trickster
Our D has no bar right now.
That's how bad it is at times.

Learn to walk before running man.


Quoting: oneX
Need to add that big piece aka the magical RHD and then him with middle and fringe pairing guys to compliment him and Rielly.


You're both making very valid points, and I think we're all on the same page...we need that elusive D but they're hard to come by and we're likely to have settle for a lesser defenceman at least for now wink

I think oneX and myself want to see more balance to the roster i.e. trade one of Marner or Nylander for a much better d than a Kerfoot, Kapanen or Johnsson will bring back but team's don't want to trade them and there's really only so many options around the league who fall into that category.

I guess we'll all just have to get on board for whoever dubas brings in.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 9:14 p.m.
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Quoting: leaflet
Look at other front-loaded teams. The Pens try to surround their stars with good defensive forwards (Tanev, Rust, McCann, or Bonino before them). For our part, we don't even have a stable 3rd line, and Keefe doesn't seem sure that Kerfoot is our 3C yet.

Our defense has too many similar players. Having a few fast puck-movers is great, but successful teams (Bruins, Caps, Blues) tend to have a bunch of hard-nosed, defensive-minded guys patrolling their blue line. Replace Barrie and another one (maybe Dermott) with defensively focused guys next year would already make it more balanced.

A naive interpretation is that Dubas piled up the skilled and undersized players other teams didn't want, guessing their stats would add up in wins, a la Moneyball. But stats models may not be sophisticated enough yet to predict complex interactions between players. Maybe he'll try to push his idea to the next level, and think we need even more Barries and Malgins. I'll be glad if it works. But I'm not convinced that model will work.


I like what you're saying! The Bruins and Blues are two teams that I use as the model of what I want to see the Leafs be like.... Both are balanced team's.
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Feb. 23, 2020 at 9:22 p.m.
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
You're both making very valid points, and I think we're all on the same page...we need that elusive D but they're hard to come by and we're likely to have settle for a lesser defenceman at least for now wink

I think oneX and myself want to see more balance to the roster i.e. trade one of Marner or Nylander for a much better d than a Kerfoot, Kapanen or Johnsson will bring back but team's don't want to trade them and there's really only so many options around the league who fall into that category.

I guess we'll all just have to get on board for whoever dubas brings in.


I should also add that I don't want to see us move assets for help now because during a competitive window for any team in any sport you only have so many opportunities to add to your team, and at the rate we're trading away picks and with the current state of our farm system, I think it's better to unload some assets rather than add unless it's a deal for the future i.e. a d with term who makes sense going forward and it's not going to further cripple us going forward. If we can add that dman with such little time left then I would look to buy and sell but it seems like a move for the offseason.
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 7:55 p.m.
#21
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Edited Feb. 25, 2020 at 8:34 p.m.
Do you think Dickson could be a good defensive 3C?
Looks like to me.
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 8:50 p.m.
#22
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I do, but it would take a kings 2012 run to do it. I think they have the talent and ability to pull that off though.
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 9:00 p.m.
#23
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I have come up with 2 trades in the offseason

Trade #1

To Dallas
Kerfoot
Rights to Vladislav Kara
Rights to James Greenway

For

Dickinson
Rights Fredrik Karlstrom (C with size)
Rights to Samuel Sjolund (LD with potential)

Trade #2

To Chicago
Kapanen
Johnsson
Rights to Travis Dermott
Rights to Jeremy Bracco
2 x 6th rounders

For

Murphy
Rights to Drake Caggiula
Rights to Alexis Gravel (G with size)
Rights to Josiah Slavin (C prospect)
2nd rounder
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Feb. 26, 2020 at 1:36 p.m.
#24
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Feb. 26, 2020 at 5:32 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: Random2152
I do, but it would take a kings 2012 run to do it. I think they have the talent and ability to pull that off though.


I sincerely hope you're right sir
 
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