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i dont get what florida is trying to do

Created by: Wqrrior
Team: 2019-20 Florida Panthers
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 24, 2020
Published: Feb. 24, 2020
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23$81,500,000$80,009,204$0$215,000$1,490,796
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$5,900,000$5,900,000
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C
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$753,333$753,333 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
C, LW
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$775,000$775,000
C, LW
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G
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RD
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RD
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$675,000$675,000
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Feb. 24, 2020 at 8:51 p.m.
#1
GM - Canucks
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I heard something about owners wanting to cut $10,000,000 in salary from roster.
Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:02 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: TMLSage
I heard something about owners wanting to cut $10,000,000 in salary from roster.


Could have done that by not spending $10 million on a goalie
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Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:06 p.m.
#3
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Both FLO and TOR acting like they really don't care about that last playoffs spot in the Atlantic.
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Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:16 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: BLIvingston33
Could have done that by not spending $10 million on a goalie


I'd like to agree with that but please show me the goalie they spent $10M on. Can't seem to find him. He must not be on the case
Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:20 p.m.
#5
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I think he's trying to wake the team-up.
Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:22 p.m.
#6
Former Hockey Fan
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I love how Buffalo was more of a buyer than the Leafs or Panthers at the deadline. Although I guess it shows Buffalo cares a lot more about just getting into the playoffs.
Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:30 p.m.
#7
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I think the Trochek trade was great by Florida.

They turned their 2c into a slight downgrade at 2c AND added a 3c (Wallmark).

Then for giving up control (I believe 2.5 years on Trochek for 0.5 years on Haula) they added 2 solid prospects. Smart.
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Feb. 24, 2020 at 9:31 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: TMLSage
I heard something about owners wanting to cut $10,000,000 in salary from roster.


I think the decision to move Trochek is not necessarily the wrong one. The return they received for him, however, is almost downright inexcusable.
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Feb. 24, 2020 at 11:25 p.m.
#9
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I agree with @BCAPP (with the proviso that only a quarter of the season remains, not a half). The Panthers get a stopgap #2C plus three really good prospects and cut $1.5MM off their cap total for this year and Trocheck's entire hit for the next two. I think that they believe that the shift of talent between #2C and #3C this run-up will be sufficient to see them into the playoffs over Toronto, and puts them in better position for next season.
Feb. 24, 2020 at 11:50 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: BCAPP
I think the Trochek trade was great by Florida.

They turned their 2c into a slight downgrade at 2c AND added a 3c (Wallmark).

Then for giving up control (I believe 2.5 years on Trochek for 0.5 years on Haula) they added 2 solid prospects. Smart.


I have to respectfully disagree. I think Haula is a third liner, and a good one at that (maybe a second liner on a team with little depth at best), but they have no intentions of keeping him long term. The prospects are okay, but neither look like they'll be impact players. Wallmark to me is more of a 4th liner, at best a 3C. However, given what OTT received for Pageau as a rental, the Panthers got a terrible return for Trochek, who still has 2 more years left at a cost controlled rate. Trading a cost controlled 2C with term and yielding two prospects with limited upside, and two third liners is just not a great return based on precedent, let alone what occurred today.
Feb. 24, 2020 at 11:58 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: rja
I have to respectfully disagree. I think Haula is a third liner, and a good one at that (maybe a second liner on a team with little depth at best), but they have no intentions of keeping him long term. The prospects are okay, but neither look like they'll be impact players. Wallmark to me is more of a 4th liner, at best a 3C. However, given what OTT received for Pageau as a rental, the Panthers got a terrible return for Trochek, who still has 2 more years left at a cost controlled rate. Trading a cost controlled 2C with term and yielding two prospects with limited upside, and two third liners is just not a great return based on precedent, let alone what occurred today.


Wallmark is the best long term asset here. He is a cheap option for Florida as a 3C. Haula is a stopgap and mostly a cap dump in reality. Considering no picks were sent and it's just a random collaboration of random bottom six potential assets, its a pretty big L.

If Wallmark returns on the cheap and gets 40 points next year, it lessens the blow - but this is a hard one to digest. Maybe this is FLA saying they have more faith in Hoffman and Dadanov?
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:02 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: rja
I have to respectfully disagree. I think Haula is a third liner, and a good one at that (maybe a second liner on a team with little depth at best), but they have no intentions of keeping him long term. The prospects are okay, but neither look like they'll be impact players. Wallmark to me is more of a 4th liner, at best a 3C. However, given what OTT received for Pageau as a rental, the Panthers got a terrible return for Trochek, who still has 2 more years left at a cost controlled rate. Trading a cost controlled 2C with term and yielding two prospects with limited upside, and two third liners is just not a great return based on precedent, let alone what occurred today.


Quoting: Wqrrior
Wallmark is the best long term asset here. He is a cheap option for Florida as a 3C. Haula is a stopgap and mostly a cap dump in reality. Considering no picks were sent and it's just a random collaboration of random bottom six potential assets, its a pretty big L.

If Wallmark returns on the cheap and gets 40 points next year, it lessens the blow - but this is a hard one to digest. Maybe this is FLA saying they have more faith in Hoffman and Dadanov?


The last 3 years
http://hkref.com/tiny/Ldc68

Haula 0.33 gpg and 0.66 ppg
Trochek 0.26 GPG and 0.76 ppg

Trochek is better but it isn't a big downgrade at all
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:19 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: rja
I have to respectfully disagree. I think Haula is a third liner, and a good one at that (maybe a second liner on a team with little depth at best), but they have no intentions of keeping him long term. The prospects are okay, but neither look like they'll be impact players. Wallmark to me is more of a 4th liner, at best a 3C. However, given what OTT received for Pageau as a rental, the Panthers got a terrible return for Trochek, who still has 2 more years left at a cost controlled rate. Trading a cost controlled 2C with term and yielding two prospects with limited upside, and two third liners is just not a great return based on precedent, let alone what occurred today.


By the way because you referenced him Pageau is 0.24/0.46

He may be better than Haula defensively but Haula is the better offensive player. He isn't just some throw in he would have been an excellent rental by himself.

Florida wanted to use their very good 2c to acquire a good 2c and good 3c because their centre depth stank. They did that and added two prospects.

IMHO they made their team better today (Haula/Wallmark is better than Trochek/Toninato) and acquired two long term assets for it.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 9:14 a.m.
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Quoting: BCAPP
By the way because you referenced him Pageau is 0.24/0.46

He may be better than Haula defensively but Haula is the better offensive player. He isn't just some throw in he would have been an excellent rental by himself.

Florida wanted to use their very good 2c to acquire a good 2c and good 3c because their centre depth stank. They did that and added two prospects.

IMHO they made their team better today (Haula/Wallmark is better than Trochek/Toninato) and acquired two long term assets for it.


Even if we assume that is true, which could be debated, it's still a lousy return once Haula walks in the summer. I think they could have easily received a similar package for Trocheck as Pageau. Maybe Walmark, the Toronto first, and a lesser prospect? Remember Trocheck still has another two years left on his contract. Then the Panthers could have spent less valued assets for one or two rentals to help with their depth (Thornton, Simmonds, Ennis, etc.). It just seemed mishandled. Just because they are better today (which I agree with you but others may not) does not mean this was a good deal for them looking at the big picture.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 10:25 a.m.
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Quoting: rja
Even if we assume that is true, which could be debated, it's still a lousy return once Haula walks in the summer. I think they could have easily received a similar package for Trocheck as Pageau. Maybe Walmark, the Toronto first, and a lesser prospect? Remember Trocheck still has another two years left on his contract. Then the Panthers could have spent less valued assets for one or two rentals to help with their depth (Thornton, Simmonds, Ennis, etc.). It just seemed mishandled. Just because they are better today (which I agree with you but others may not) does not mean this was a good deal for them looking at the big picture.


What I am saying is would you be upset if you got Pageau and Wallmark and the two prospects? Because I'm arguing that's what you got.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 12:32 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: BCAPP
What I am saying is would you be upset if you got Pageau and Wallmark and the two prospects? Because I'm arguing that's what you got.


And I am saying that they would have been better off getting better futures for Trocheck and paying pennies on the dollar for depth. I think it was just a lousy return for a 2C who's AAV is below market rate for 2 years. I think we're simply talking past each other. I am not disagreeing with you that the Panthers can still compete and added forward depth they needed; I am looking at the Trocheck trade in a vacuum and saying it's a lousy return. I think they would have been better off asking for only a first and Wallmark (which looking at the Canes depth at center I think they would have folded and accepted that deal) and found other ways to add cheap depth players. I think these two prospects do not really push the needle. But maybe I am wrong and these kids will play well for the Panthers.
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 2:55 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: BCAPP
What I am saying is would you be upset if you got Pageau and Wallmark and the two prospects? Because I'm arguing that's what you got.


Haula is expiring, though. That's pretty big in this equation.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 7:12 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Wqrrior
Haula is expiring, though. That's pretty big in this equation.


So was Pageau. That's my point. I think Haula is better than Pageau.
Feb. 26, 2020 at 4:09 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: BLIvingston33
Could have done that by not spending $10 million on a goalie


Could have got Lehner for $5 M last summer. A savings of .... that’s right, $5 M
Feb. 26, 2020 at 4:16 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: rja
And I am saying that they would have been better off getting better futures for Trocheck and paying pennies on the dollar for depth. I think it was just a lousy return for a 2C who's AAV is below market rate for 2 years. I think we're simply talking past each other. I am not disagreeing with you that the Panthers can still compete and added forward depth they needed; I am looking at the Trocheck trade in a vacuum and saying it's a lousy return. I think they would have been better off asking for only a first and Wallmark (which looking at the Canes depth at center I think they would have folded and accepted that deal) and found other ways to add cheap depth players. I think these two prospects do not really push the needle. But maybe I am wrong and these kids will play well for the Panthers.


That is a lousy return, but something doesn’t sit right with me. That trade feels like Carolina walking off the used car lot (sorry ... ah, previously-owned) feeling victorious, while the owner desperately want to rid himself of a lemon. For a guy who had 75 points two seasons ago, Trochek was falling down a hill. It is a gamble Carolina can take.
Feb. 27, 2020 at 4:20 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Hawksince71
That is a lousy return, but something doesn’t sit right with me. That trade feels like Carolina walking off the used car lot (sorry ... ah, previously-owned) feeling victorious, while the owner desperately want to rid himself of a lemon. For a guy who had 75 points two seasons ago, Trochek was falling down a hill. It is a gamble Carolina can take.


I just think given the totality of the circumstances they could have gotten a better deal and addressed depth with less significant assets. But maybe I am wrong.
 
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