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IMO how to keep Pietrangelo

Team: 2020-21 St. Louis Blues
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 25, 2020
Published: Feb. 25, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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1$2,500,000
3$1,750,000
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1.
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  1. 2021 2nd round pick (BUF)
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Conditional pick: if BUF makes the playoffs in 2021, the Blues get a 2022 3rd rounder
BUF
  1. Allen, Jake
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St-Louis gets cap space and a pick

BUF gets a goalie better than Hutton to help out Ullmark until Lukkonen is ready
2.
STL
  1. 2021 4th round pick (FLA)
  2. 2022 6th round pick (FLA)
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To any team that needs a 6th d-man
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Feb. 25, 2020 at 4:59 p.m.
#1
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he should realistically get around 9M. He isn't better than Josi, but I could see him making 9.25M max.

I think Sundqvist should be a target to move.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:00 p.m.
#2
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Brace for the Storm
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Quoting: Wqrrior
he should realistically get around 9M. He isn't better than Josi, but I could see him making 9.25M max.

I think Sundqvist should be a target to move.


Yes he's better than Josi. He's in the same ballpark as Hedman and Carlson
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:00 p.m.
#3
Sam
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Could move Bozak as well, I like the guy but Sundqvist is better and we’ve got a ton of centers
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:03 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: STLBlues17
Could move Bozak as well, I like the guy but Sundqvist is better and we’ve got a ton of centers


NTC
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:04 p.m.
#5
Lets Go Blues
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
NTC


10-team no trade list. Tricky, but not impossible.
mobluesfan liked this.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:08 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Yes he's better than Josi. He's in the same ballpark as Hedman and Carlson


lol
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:12 p.m.
#7
Sam
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Quoting: Wqrrior
lol


Quoting: Wqrrior
lol


Idk what’s so funny, those 4 and Hamilton have been far and away the best defenseman this year
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:14 p.m.
#8
MountRoyal514
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Maybe Habs take both players for a return of St Louis' own 2nd and a 4th. Habs need an above average backup goaltender and defensive depth.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:18 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: STLBlues17
Idk what’s so funny, those 4 and Hamilton have been far and away the best defenseman this year


I agree that he is up there, but Josi is definitely above Pietrangelo. Any unbias perspective takes Josi.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:24 p.m.
#10
Sam
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Quoting: Wqrrior
I agree that he is up there, but Josi is definitely above Pietrangelo. Any unbias perspective takes Josi.


Pietrangelo’s got him in both WAR and RAPM this year and his isolated impact is a lot better as well. Josi has the better on-ice numbers but that has a lot to do with playing with Ellis whereas Pietrangelo has to deal with Gunnarsson or Faulk/Parayko on their offside.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:31 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: STLBlues17
Pietrangelo’s got him in both WAR and RAPM this year and his isolated impact is a lot better as well. Josi has the better on-ice numbers but that has a lot to do with playing with Ellis whereas Pietrangelo has to deal with Gunnarsson or Faulk/Parayko on their offside.


Ellis has missed almost 1/3 of the season, and NSH has been a considerably worse team this year. Josi is literally carrying NSH this year - the difference of them staying somewhat afloat in the playoff race. Pietrangelo has a literal cup contender of a team.

Pietrangelo isn't far behind, but I can't find any argument to slot him ahead. Advanced stats are trying too hard.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:39 p.m.
#12
mokumboi
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We're not trading Bortz, which would do absolutely nothing to help us in any way. He's dirt cheap, and one of the best values at any position in the league. And including Foley in our cap hit is beyond silly. That guy may never play again.


Quoting: Wqrrior

I think Sundqvist should be a target to move.



0% chance of that. Can't even imagine why you'd say that.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:45 p.m.
#13
Sam
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Quoting: Wqrrior
Ellis has missed almost 1/3 of the season, and NSH has been a considerably worse team this year. Josi is literally carrying NSH this year - the difference of them staying somewhat afloat in the playoff race. Pietrangelo has a literal cup contender of a team.

Pietrangelo isn't far behind, but I can't find any argument to slot him ahead. Advanced stats are trying too hard.


I’m not gonna argue it too much because imo they’re both the clear Norris frontrunners, but you could argue Pietrangelo has carried the Blues this year as well. Every other STL d besides Dunn have had off years and Pietrangelo has almost twice the GAR of the next closest Blue.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:48 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: STLBlues17
I’m not gonna argue it too much because imo they’re both the clear Norris frontrunners, but you could argue Pietrangelo has carried the Blues this year as well. Every other STL d besides Dunn have had off years and Pietrangelo has almost twice the GAR of the next closest Blue.


What's «GAR»?
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:55 p.m.
#15
Good Opinion Haver
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Quoting: MountRoyal514
Maybe Habs take both players for a return of St Louis' own 2nd and a 4th. Habs need an above average backup goaltender and defensive depth.


That's not a bad thought, don't know how palatable Montreal would find paying 15million in goaltending though
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:55 p.m.
#16
Good Opinion Haver
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
What's «GAR»?


Goals Above Replacement. Basically the hockey equivalent (more or less) of baseball's Wins Above Replacement
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:57 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster
Goals Above Replacement. Basically the hockey equivalent (more or less) of baseball's Wins Above Replacement


Where can I find all those advanced stats?
Feb. 25, 2020 at 6:00 p.m.
#18
Good Opinion Haver
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Where can I find all those advanced stats?


Most analytics guys have their own websites that they run, but it's getting tougher to find info for free- a lot of the analytics guys require a subscription to get access to them. I like evolving-hockey's stuff, they have a glossary that breaks down all of their stats on their website along with interactive charts and tables and whatnot. But it's $5 a month. I pay for it because I'm a nerd but I see why a lot of people wouldn't. Charting-Hockey is pretty good too, they have more stuff available for free. And they post stuff on their Twitter accounts a lot too.

I'll see if I can post the GAR breakdown stuff, that's probably the best known and most useful metric.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 6:10 p.m.
#19
Good Opinion Haver
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Where can I find all those advanced stats?


Hopefully this link works. Basically, for this season at least, Pietrangelo has a better overall GAR rating than Hedman or Josi. Offensively at even strength, Josi is the most productive, Pietrangelo in the middle, Hedman the least. Defensively at even strength, Hedman is the best, closely followed by Pietrangelo, and Josi has the worst defensive rating at even strength at -1.4. It also takes into account offense on the power play, defensive on the PK, giveaways and takeaways. I like this metric because it doesn't just imply which one is better or worse, but actually what they are better and worse at, and how important those things are to your team.

In other news, Artemi Panarin is having a monster season by this metric.
Feb. 25, 2020 at 9:27 p.m.
#20
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Buffalo does not want Jake Allen
Feb. 26, 2020 at 11:40 a.m.
#21
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This is a pretty realistic take IMO. I think it is more likely that Petro goes for 8/8.5 -- more term, less AAV -- if he stays with the Blues. Buffalo might not be the right team but 100% he gets moved this offseason to clear up some space. I don't think they buyout Steen (I don't think DA has ever done a buyout) but more likely they work around Bozak's 10-team NTC and move him if necessary.

Scandella is going to get a lot more than 1 year $2.0, he's almost definitely gone unless there is a lot more salary cleared somehow.

Dunn probably gets more like $3.0.

But yeah, I think this is directionally accurate.
 
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