I think his 3rd contract was 8. His 2nd was 5 years at 8.7 AAV (I'm pretty sure Crosby signed the same thing at the time)

the ironic thing was with nylander the announcers predicted getting him resigned would be a nightmare as his father had the same attitude when it came to money. As for Matthews that contract was high but if u think about it, If Mcdavid never got 12.5 mill most good players would probably get kane money 10.5 or even less. Whenever a team sets a bar for a good player other teams follow. Karlsson can thank doughty for getting 11.65 mill and so on. The main thing is sure dubas overpaid but at the same time matthews has recently been playing his best hockey yet and may be on the verge of multiple 100point seasons. As for Marner I would give him a B+. I think he is just overthinking things on the team and trying to do to much. He also is on a new line with Matthews so hes getting used to playing with a different center but so far its gone pretty well. Next season Keefe should maybe consider putting the tavares line back together and trying (Nylander - Matthews - Kapenan) as that line could be interesting to see. we will just have to wait and see what dubas plans for this team come the 2020-2021 season

Yeah I see now. But Geno at Matthews’ age had a Conn Smythe & scoring title, 2 100 point seasons so it’s a bit different.

It's the term on Matthews' contract that kills me, not so much the money. Even now though, most players are signing for 10 million ish. Eichel, 8x10. Rantanen, 6x9.25. Panarin is the only forward aside from Matthews and Mcdavid, who makes more than 11 million and he was a UFA so his price went up. I do think Matthews and Marner need more time together but they can be a dynamite combination, just look at the 8-6 win against Carolina back in December. The chemistry was UNREAL.

It's the term on Matthews' contract that kills me, not so much the money. Even now though, most players are signing for 10 million ish. Eichel, 8x10. Rantanen, 6x9.25. Panarin is the only forward aside from Matthews and Mcdavid, who makes more than 11 million and he was a UFA so his price went up. I do think Matthews and Marner need more time together but they can be a dynamite combination, just look at the 8-6 win against Carolina back in December. The chemistry was UNREAL.

Yes you’re right but I’m not sure if there’s gonna be a spot on the team for Marner next season.

Didn’t Geno sign for 8 years?

@aadoyle @LeafsFanForSomeReason @palhal @leafs_and_sens_fan @JaredOfLondon @jack_ @Random2152

Alright, so I think it’s time to assess Marner’s play this season. He finished off on a 22 goal 93 point pace. According to his isolated impact charts, he was 6% above the league average in driving offence. He was 13% above the league average in defensive contributions. He had a 54.13 GF%, a 56.61 xGF% & a 52.5% Corsi. It is obvious he did not live up to the contract he signed, but how would you grade him for his performances? Personally, I give a D-.

Compared to what I expected from him this year I rate his performance a C-. His production is slightly less than what I expected and he hasn't really improved this year compared to last year but he hasn't regressed back to pre contract year production which is good.

Marner used to be my favorite player. His creativity, positive attitude and energy last season drew me to him. He seemed to be playing for the love of the game. He even made fun of Nylander for trying to get extra money on his contract. (although I feel like Nylander was justified because his contract is similar to what I felt he should be getting paid)

Then this off-season... he squeezed Dubas for every single possible cent... I lost a lot of respect for him.

I give the value of his contract an F.

Nylander - 7Mx6
Matthews - probably around 12Mx6

Marner should be right in the middle 9.5x6. I would have given him 10Mx6 maximum. I think his contract and trading Marleau's contract for a 1st have been Dubas' biggest failures so far.

trading Marleau's contract for a 1st have been Dubas' biggest failures so far.

i made the joke marner should have made 8.93M as not only was it team friendly and realistic but he got his 93 in there. To be fair he probably squeezed dubas because of Babcock after that story came out I would ask for that money to play under that kind of coach

That's Lou failure imo

I know we make excuses for player that we like but his behavior during contract negotiations was terrible. He refused to take an 8 year contract. His agent kept lying though the whole process (ex. he said Marner never turned down 11Mx7... well then how did he get 10.9Mx6...) or (he never looked at an offer sheet... well then how did he get negotiating with the Blue Jackets...). He wanted the money more than the cup. Plus he already knew Babcock might be going out based on the previous season.

Dubas was not trying to lowball Marner at all this summer. 10Mx6 would not even be a team discount it would just be a fair contract.



It's true that he shouldn't have singed Marleau to 3 years so it is mostly Lou's fault and also Marner's fault for holding out so that the Leafs couldn't have cap certainty. However, trading away a 1 year contract with real money value of 2.75M is not worth a 1st. He could have been more creative such as retained some of Marleau's contract while making space in other ways such as: trading out Johnsson, not signing Ceci to more than his qualifying offer (or letting him walk) or signing Marner to a bridge deal.

Maybe he could have traded Marleau to Colorado along with a second instead of getting them to retain on Barrie. That way Colorado pays 250k for a 2nd and then Johnsson could be traded out to get a 2nd back.

Compared to what I expected from him this year I rate his performance a C-. His production is slightly less than what I expected and he hasn't really improved this year compared to last year but he hasn't regressed back to pre contract year production which is good.

Marner used to be my favorite player. His creativity, positive attitude and energy last season drew me to him. He seemed to be playing for the love of the game. He even made fun of Nylander for trying to get extra money on his contract. (although I feel like Nylander was justified because his contract is similar to what I felt he should be getting paid)

Then this off-season... he squeezed Dubas for every single possible cent... I lost a lot of respect for him.

I give the value of his contract an F.

Nylander - 7Mx6
Matthews - probably around 12Mx6

Marner should be right in the middle 9.5x6. I would have given him 10Mx6 maximum. I think his contract and trading Marleau's contract for a 1st have been Dubas' biggest failures so far.

Marner's biggest failure as a player this year was IMO poor coaching on Babcock and Keefe's part. Marner was outstanding playing the right point on the PP in 2018/19. But this year both coaches tried to make Barrie successful on the right point. He was average at best. Marner should have the point guy on the PP
So Marner' s production was pretty well the same as last year....
You argue salary. At the time of their signings all three RFAs. Nylander, Matthew and Marner were overpaid. Now I don't blame the players for squeezing the Leafs. But the Leaf management and it's just wasn't
Dubas, it was the MLSE team that allowed the negotiations to proceed the way they did and do sign the contracts. I would have let Nylander sit out last year instead of signing that contract Matthews and Marner...Leafs had comparable...those two guys about 2m overpaid per year considering the term

To me, the solution for Dubas was easy. Sign a bridge contract. Most other Canadian GMs did that: Tkachuk, Laine, Boeser...

Here's the rationale. The current contract at 11M was clearly above league comparables. We all know that. And it puts too much pressure on the player anyway. Not good for anyone.

Even with three years of sustained performance, the top NHL salary for wingers would be at best the value of the current contract in three years (11M). As it turns out, because of COVID-19, it may not even grow that fast.

So Dubas could have signed Marner at 3x7 (or 3x8) still into RFA, then sign him for 6x11 after that. So he's signed 9 years instead of 6, and you get three years at a fair price.

Marner's biggest failure as a player this year was IMO poor coaching on Babcock and Keefe's part. Marner was outstanding playing the right point on the PP in 2018/19. But this year both coaches tried to make Barrie successful on the right point. He was average at best. Marner should have the point guy on the PP
So Marner' s production was pretty well the same as last year....
You argue salary. At the time of their signings all three RFAs. Nylander, Matthew and Marner were overpaid. Now I don't blame the players for squeezing the Leafs. But the Leaf management and it's just wasn't
Dubas, it was the MLSE team that allowed the negotiations to proceed the way they did and do sign the contracts. I would have let Nylander sit out last year instead of signing that contract Matthews and Marner...Leafs had comparable...those two guys about 2m overpaid per year considering the term

Anyone else remember when Chara had Marner pinned to the boards and he got drilled while he was vulnerable by a 4th liner? Kadri should of been a leaf for life after that day. Marner was a big Martin fan too. Malgin Petan brought in. Checkers like Moore Timashov and Marchement out. I get that Clifford is great but Kadri brought an edge for 15 to 20 plus minutes a night. Nylander had a great year but he plays a soft game. Nylander and Kadri are both real good but totally different players. It isn't just about skill versus grit. Team chemistry is not as simple as one plus one. If skill alone won hockey games then why are the leafs with their top tier goal scoring and goaltending a bubble team?

It's true that he shouldn't have singed Marleau to 3 years so it is mostly Lou's fault and also Marner's fault for holding out so that the Leafs couldn't have cap certainty.

It's never easy nor pretty fixing other person's mistakes, especially not for a rookie GM.

You want to bring Marner into team decisions? Let's backup slightly (I am not siding with Marner here even though it may sound so) and remember when Dubas and Shanny decided to bring back Babcock.

Imagine if they had decided to fire Babcock after the playoff run? Would negiotations with Marner been better knowing a new coach was coming?

Tough to say.. That last part I'm looking more at Shanny than Dubas because Babcock was a Shanny hire.

There's a few missed steps here, not just by one person.

Okay so there were a few missed steps and he wouldn't take a discount. That doesn't mean you overpay him by 1M+ dollars. People were saying 11Mx7 was crazy and he got 10.9Mx6... Anything over 10M is a massive overpay in my mind.

If he wanted to take an offer sheet I would have let him walk for the 4 1sts and kept the 1st from trading Marleau.

I'd take 5 1sts and 11M in cap space over Marner any day of the week.

Just stop it there. Saying he is more valuable than Matthews. If you offer Matthews to every team in the league, temas would accept a Matthews for almost every player.

If you'd offer Marner to Dallas for Heiskanen, they say no. If you offer im to Buffalo for Dahlin. They say no. And many more teams say no. points are not everything in hockey. How do you know how teammates like each other? They overpaied him more by 2 million.

Don't be one of those who think it matter so much to players if they play for their hometown team

Again with the mention :P haha! So issues with both deals. In my books, a young top-6 winger that's scored 20 goals in his first full NHL season (last year) is worth at least a 2nd round draft pick and a pretty good prospect, at minimum. Just because the Leafs are cap-strapped, like many others are, or will be soon, it doesn't mean the Leafs should, or would sell low on such a player, any player for that matter, but especially when you are looking at more of a cap-efficient futures package in return. Second, my issue with Matt Roy. It's not so much an issue, as a risk. He's a good young defender, no doubt, he plays the right side and comes with a super cheap 1-year left on his ELC deal. He also has good hit and shot block numbers, which equates, for a lot of Leafs fans as, young, controllable, tough, plays right side, check-check-check, which equals an automatic good fit. Now, I am not saying he's not a good fit. Ideally, the Leafs would pair him with Sandin and let them develop together against oppositions less elite players, but the cost you have woah, that's my issue. To me, a 1st would be out of the question, which might mean the deal needs to be bigger. For the right price, I would definitely take a swing at Matt Roy, but I am not sure I see a scenario where the Leafs wouldn't have to overpay. LA is rebuilding, so why in the world would they want to part with a good, young and controllable piece? If LA was prepared to do a hockey swap like Dermott for Roy, I think the Leafs would strongly consider, especially because Dermott is occupying Sandin's lineup spot.

Overall, I think more drastic lineup changes will be needed, both in terms of where there cap situation stands and in terms of how well (or lack their of) they do these playoffs. I would add that when you are trying to make these deals and setup a roster that hopefully takes things to a new level, you look to other teams that are not rebuilding, because I think non-rebuilding/retool clubs would be more likely and willing to make hockey deals.

I think if the Leafs underwhelm in the playoffs again this year, the player in question should be Mitch Marner. At this point, I have to wonder if he’s a locker room cancer & holding the team back. It’s undeniable that the kid’s got loads of talent, but this season there were just so many games in which he gave a poor effort & played with no intensity at all. The team looks up to their top players & Marner certainly didn’t set an example this year.

My offseason plan would be to trade Marner for a package that addresses Toronto’s biggest needs. We need to keep in mind that in a flat cap world, there won’t be teams interested in taking on his albatross contract, so the return will be much smaller than what we’d all expect.

My ideal Mitch Marner trade would be to send him to Pittsburgh for Patric Hornqvist, Sam Lafferty, Jack Johnson & Chad Ruhwedel. What’d you guys think?