I still think there's legs to a possible blockbuster involving Ellis and Marner.

Could Dubas be desperate enough that a 50%-retained Subban - under assistance from the Leaf's top-notch medical staff for his back - be a low-cost option? The Leafs need a guy who can log top-pair minutes with either Muzzin or Reilly more than they need another middle-of-the-road RHD. A healthy Subban can at least eat the minutes no?

Radku Gudas is not God tier

Niether is Severson

Tier 1: Brodin Petry Hammer Murphy Savard (good+undervalued)
Tier 2: Manson Gudas Brodie Hamonic (good+valued correctly)
Tier 3: Tanev Mayfield (meh, valued relatively well)
Tier 4: Severson Larsson Dumba (overrated... To varying extents and overvalued)

You're both wrong. Severson would be exceptional and wouldn't cost much but gudas would be great beside rielly. Hes a good 2nd pairing defenseman who is very good defensively and still a good puck mover. Neither would cost much and both are better then most other guys people are throwing out there

Petry and manson will cost way too much. It's not worth it to get either of those guys. Personally I dont think hamonic is very good and brodie isnt the kind of guy they need. Severson is extremely good defensively, is a great skater and a fantastic puck mover. Most people on here underrate him. Hes easily a #3 defenseman on most teams. Hes also cost controlled and would fit right into the leafs system even though he isnt that strong offensively

Most player can eat minutes. But you don't want inferior players playing big minutes. I just wouldn't want the celebrity Subban on my team even at 50% retention.
Hainsey was excellent partner Reilly. So I don't understand the logic why it so difficult to find partner for Reilly.. Fact is Reilly is just average at best defensively and the coaches don't want him killing penalties. So many think he's a "number one" players because of offensively totals, He gets a lot of ice time/points on the PP. He's very good when the Leaf have the puck. But the rest his game, average.

Didn't Gudas kind of **** the bed defensively this year? And what do you think it would cost to get Severson? He's a good Dman on a real solid contract... probably won't come cheap.

I find myself agreeing alot with you on many things, I guess Severson and Gudas being god tier not one of those things.
Maybe Severson is a good/above average D but god tier? Yeah...I have a hard time getting there.

I think @palhal 's assessment is closer to accurate than people want to admit.


@Trickster, yo...are these guys at god tier?

Gudas hasn't been great but I see no reason why he couldn't bounce back. Hes had one bad year in his career and we know it doesnt take much to put up good numbers with rielly. It could also be that he doenst fit into Washington's system or his partner hasn't been great. Severson wouldn't cost that much, I imagine something like johnsson, dermott and a pick would get it done

This list is missing Zaitsev.

I think that's probably a low estimate on the Severson trade (depending on the pick I suppose). And yeah, Gudas should bounce back, but with the term and money that gets thrown at UFA's, I'd tread lightly.

I also took what it would take to get them into account. Severson would cost far less then manson but would still provide 90% of the value manson would except he would probably only cost 75% of what manson would. Gudas would be great and is a free agent. I like him better then tanev, he will also cost less and is younger. But getting back to severson, he has a fantastic RAPM and great xG numbers while playing with a terrible partner on a horrible devils team. I would love him so much.

Palhal is spot on. I've been saying to for a while now that they dont need a superstar to play with rielly. A right side of Holl, gudas/severson and liljegren is perfectly fine.

The most he will probably make is 3.5 after the season hes had it's looking more like 3 and it would be the perfect time to buy low on him. Anything more then that would scare me away though

... Severson is terrible defensively...

Severson would cost Liljegren! Gudas I guess could be God tier but I feel would cost to much

Rielly is a number one Dman. Sure his defensive game is not great, but what he brings everywhere else far outweighs that deficiency.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. If the price is right, great, but don't get into a bidding war for him.

Not at all.

Most players can "eat" minutes, but not all of them do it successfully. Hainsey was below-average in terms of possession numbers and rode a PDO bender during his time on the Leafs. Calling him "excellent" seems like a stretch at best and is contradictory to your words. Hainsey was very much an inferior player in his role, and it showed when it mattered. The Leafs couldn't win with him, why expect a Hainsey-type to be what they're missing now?

You'd use Subban in this scenario with Muzzin clearly. I very much recognize that Reilly's game is primarily offensive, and that a more stable partner (Holl isn't horrible here) would help keep him afloat. If Subban could get his back sorted out, the personality shouldn't matter. He'd be at worst 75% the player he was at his peak in Montreal. At $4.5M, that's a steal and exactly what the Leafs would be missing. Personality has little to no bearing on the on-ice product, I genuinely don't understand why you'd want that as far away from the Leafs as possible.

There's a real chance that without trading Marner, Sandin, or Robertson, that a 50% PK Subban is the best the Leafs will be able to acquire this summer. Teams don't line up en masse to give away their best RHD because the Leafs asked them to. There's no money (nor any sense) to sign Pietrangelo. The thing that separates the Leafs from any other franchise is to do the financial things that don't count against the cap. Sports science and medicine are the Leafs' strength beyond the actual rink. If the offseason is going to be prolonged, this is a move that Toronto should make if they're forced into it.

I agree with basically everything you said here. The only thing is that a 'Hainsey-type' is exactly what they need IF you take that meaning the same way I do. Rielly excelled with Hainsey because A) Rielly is a fantastic player; and B) because Hainsey accepted more defensive responsibilities, thus allowing Rielly to run free. The problem here is that just because Hainsey accepted the responsibilities, doesn't mean he was good at them. If they can get a guy to do what Hainsey did, except be good at it... That's a good partner for Rielly.

If I'm the Leafs, I'm looking for a puck-mover to play with Muzzin on the top pair. Reilly and Holl are sufficient enough on the second pair. There's a chance Liljegren can step into a top four role with the proper work in the offseason and his two-way style might click well with Reilly.

Muzzin is a perfectly capable puck mover. He and Holl were actually quite a good pairing; why fix what isn't broken? Puck movers are also more expensive than 'Stay-at-homes'. I'd rather look for a guy to play with Rielly.

Subban just isn't a good hockey player now. So all teams should stay away from him even 4.5m.
Hainsey played very well in 2019/20. And he was worked/overworked like a rented mule playing LHD on the PK because Babcock for good reason didn't want Gardiner and Reilly on the PK.
So what if the Leafs didn't win with Hainsey. That's nonsensical argument on your part. Leafs haven't won with Reilly and he's played more years as Leafs than Hainsey. Even with the Leafs find the "ideal" partner Reilly whoever that might be, certainly that doesn't guarantee the Leafs any more success than the past few seasons.
Heck I see all these trades for Jones and Savard. Think those guys are the answer to Leafs by themselves? Those two guys have two playoff round wins in their multiple years in the NHL.

Colin Miller? Would be acquired for low price and has term