Just fix some of the contracts and it would be fine Marner 8.93 (so he gets his 93 in there). Johnsson at 3 would be fine he pushed to earn that deal and if he wasnt injury prone this year he may have done it again.

I honestly don't understand how people can think this crap. Lets break each player down:

Matthews: You are arguing over 634k on a superstar. I'm not worried about that in the slightest.
Kerfoot: A negotiation is all about leverage, and everyone who knows anything understands that a team is weakest from a leverage pov when they have just traded to acquire a player. You've already spent the assets to get them so they can use that to inflate their salary. Kerfoot was always going to come in a touch above Kappy and Mango and he was worth it before and has been fine since the signing.
Nylander: Had the longest holdout in NHL cap history, a tactic designed to extract more money from the team. In total, after this record holdout he got 700k more, which he has more than lived up to. Once more, not an overpay.
Johnsson and Kappy: How many 50 point young twenties something players sign in the two's? Not many. Neither of these guys get the respect they deserve on this site because people look at where they are in the lineup and their point totals and think they are just meh third liners, forgetting that the Leafs have the deepest 1-12 in the league. Kappy is an explosive breakout just waiting to happen and Johnsson is our (not quite as good) Victor Arvidsson. If you don't think those contracts are good then you don't know the first thing about hockey.
Ceci: It is 200k. Are we really yelling about 200k on a 1 year contract?
Marner: Finally! An actual overpay example. He should have gotten the Rantanen contract (6@9.3), although if you'd been listening to posters on CF Mitch was as good as Mats and desreved this contract RIGHT up until he actually signed it - then he sucked all of a sudden.

Do you really think Marner is grossly overpaid if he is putting up 90-100 points a year?

I don't give a **** about points in player evaluation. It is too rough a conversion and ignores some important details.

Matthews = strong believer in the fact Matthews should have honored J.T. and sign for equal money as the best co-leaders.
Kerfoot = I understand and agree with your point.
Nylander = never should have asked for Draisaitl type money and should have been came in a little under Pasta.
Johnsson and Kappy = last summer ACGM quotes at the high 2 millions sounded good to me.
Ceci = he was only owed the Q.O. but somehow got that 200k raise.
Marner = he should have landed between Draisaitl and Kucherov contracts. Marner hasn't sucked, his ppg is still equal to his previous years, just watching him on ice, he is clearly trying too much. I'd like to see him back with J.T. , Marner is trying too hard to find Matthews cherry picking.

Okay, I get it that you do not value a player who puts up 90-100 points a year, helps both Tavares and Matthews to achieve their all time goal scoring stats when playing with him, plays 5x5, PP and PK and is one of the most popular players on the team with both his teammates, fans and coach. Just curious what are the importants details you have to arrive at a lower evaluation of Marner?

You are 100% correct in your Marner assessment in that it is very hard to play with Matthews. Matthews really only wants to play with 2 puck retrieval and gopher type players who will do all the work to get him the puck.

Disagree about Matthews. Matthews should have gotten 12.75x8, 12Mx7, 11.25Mx6 or 10.5Mx5.

Marner should have gotten 10Mx6.

Ceci at 4.3M is huge overpay. I wouldn't have went a cent over and hoped that he walked.

I think you're spot on about Kerfoot, Johnsson, Kappy and Nylander.

Okay, but most of these things you mention are simply opinions. They aren't based on anything other than your feelings.

Pasta is on a steal of a contract and Nylander is a better possession winger than Pasta is while also being more versatile in that WN can play 2C. Once more, Nylander had the LONGEST holdout in cap history and only managed to extract 700k from it. Perfectly fine.
Those AGM's (or at least mine) had Kappy and Mango signing for less term, or were done earlier in the season. The ones done over the summer were more or less bang on what they got.
Matthews: Okay? That is your opinion but it has no basis in anything concrete. If Mats had taken the Malkin contract he'd have gotten 5@12.5aav. I am perfectly happy to say Mats hadn't done as much as Geno had at that point, but he was showing he was a better goalscorer (costs more) and was our massive young superstar. For a million less I'd say that is pretty good.
I do not see where you are getting your idea on where Mitch should have landed as once more you opinion isn't based on anything.

ALSO: I just noticed you said something about Mats cherry picking. You don't watch the games do you? Mats has been geenuinely good on the defensive side and has had very strong defensive impact this year

Why? McDavid and Eichel are the outlier contracts (and McDavid took a HUGE discount by going 8 years over 5).

Malkin took a 5 year deal at what would be 12.5aav. If you want to say Mats hadn't done as much that is fine, but a better scorer (costs more) who is a superstar for a million less sounds good to me.

Underlying metrics, eye test, etc.
Especially the underlyings showed that Mitch and Willie are still in lock step in terms of value and that JT helped Mitch a TON more then Mitch helped JT. Mitch has the edge but it isn't the chasm that his contract or people's opinion on him would paint.

I thought Tavares had a career year last year playing with Marner so not sure you how you can say Tavares helped Mitch a ton more than Mitch helped JT. Marner is a franchise player for the Leafs and the Leafs are really lucky that Mark Hunter drafted him.

Malkin had an 113 point season and multiple 100+ point seasons when he signed that contract with a 47 goal season.

Matthews had a 73 point season and a high of 37 goals when he signed his contract.

Yes, McDavid took a discount, however, I took that into account.

Matthews' comparable should have been Eichel. Yes, he is better than Eichel but not 1.6M and 3 years less term better.

I think 12.75Mx8 (notice it's higher than McDavid's contract (not because he is better)) or 10.5Mx5 (still more money and less term than Eichel) would have been very fair.

If they didn't overpay Matthews they could have gotten Marner for less too. Get Matthews for a million less and Marner probably takes a million less too.

2 million dollars in cap space would have been amazing for us.

Not saying he isn't. Saying we paid him more than we needed to.
Why do people always forget that JT is also a franchise player for the Leafs, and a better one at that. He has a history of making terrible wingers look very, very good. It stands to reason that he would make a very good winger even better too.

Here is the non-analytic argument:
JT's points increased by 4, Marner's increased by 25. That tells me that JT's role simply changed while Mitch was being buoyed by an elite player.

The Analytic argument is much less rosy:

Tavares' production went up 4 points. Marner's production went up 25 points. Yes, the both helped each other but Tavares helped more.

Marner is and elite player. However, he is not a franchise player. Franchise players are players like McDavid (and Marner is nowhere near that).

Matthews had a 40 goal season high in his rookie year, looked like a better goal scorer (still does) and was injured the next two seasons. On a PPG pace it is much closer.
I also don't give a **** about points in player evaluation anyway.
Matthews had done FAR more than Eichel at the time of signing, both from a PPG standpoint but also this:

Matthews >>> Eichel. To say otherwise is to be talking from your ass.

113 point/82 games = 1.378 PPG for Malkin
73 points/68 games = 1.074 PPG for Matthews
64 points/67 games = 0.955 PPG for Eichel

1.074/1.378 = 0.78

He had 3/4 the number of points to game not even taking into account he missed a bunch of games.

78% of 12.5M is 9.75M. Remember you're the one who brought up Malkin as a comparable...

1.074/0.955 = 1.13 (rounded up)

11.3M on an 8 year deal?

Plus he was playing with Nylander who is an elite player. Who was Eichel playing with?

Mats Sundin was a 200 feet player, Matthews is a cherry picker in the offensive zone.

Old school GM's would have convinced Matthews agent to take equal or slightly less than J.T. , evil (dumb) stat guys (ahem) get fooled and end up looking foolish and ruining the NHL by pushing the salaries higher for every player.

Pasta hit the 70 point mark in his contract year, Nylander hit 61. Larkin hit 63 in his contract year. Ehlors hit 60 in his contract year. All players (along with Draisaitl) were from the same Draft year, so how did Nylander "earn" his half a million overpayment ? Dubas cave with the holdout.

Marner contract is hard to compare with anyone since he compares more with centers than wingers, look around in the NHL and hardly find any Elite play making passing wingers.

Your point increase justifys nothing when you consider Marner as a 3rd year player in the NHL made a jump up to the next level whereas Tavares was already an establised player. Marner is a franchise player and you would realize it if the Leafs did not already have Matthews and Tavares.

Reinhart, but also remember the whole IDGAF about points in player evaluation thing? Cause I don't. I know some people do so I included it. (I also don't know where you are getting that 8 year from as Geno signed for 5 but I digress).

Here is Geno throughout his BEST years (not his contract years, but his peak play when he was unstoppable. I am stacking this is Malkin's favour here to make my point):


And here is Mats once more in his contract years:


Geno had some good really years, but these were after he signed his contract and Mats is still comparable

1) Ahh. You don't watch the games. Got it. Mats has had very good defensive impacts. There is a reason why that Selke quote from Shanny exists.
2) Proof please. Old school GM Lou paid Marleau and Zaitsev.
3) don't care about points but even then that isn't a huge difference. Remember that neither of Pasta or Larkin held out for 5 months.
Also, how do you not understand that a hold out is a leverage gaining tactic. The whole point is that it adds leverage to the player. It isn't caving in to give them 250k (imo) - 700k (iyo) more. That is called negotiation. This isn't difficult to understand.
4) What?!?! Gaudreau, Reinhart, Rantenen, Aho (when he was a winger), Huberdeau, etc.
We are done here. A statement like that is beyond absurd and proves this isn't a productive talk.

1 ) haha. Selke. The coach doesn't even trust him on the penalty kill, what does that tell you?
2 ) Many GM's both laughed and cry watching Dubas bend over to please the evil stat gods.
3 ) Willy's your man. I'm not going to argue since your opinion is tainted by blind love (you've seen his shower pic haven't you).
4 ) None of the player you named reached Elite playmaker level before the end of their ELC.

5 ) I forgot how annoying you are to talk too, you are so closed minded and egotistical that you are the reason all conversations are not productive. I'm done with you. Your evil stats prove nothing, numbers can convey any propaganda the user wants. That's a fact.

Considering you are arguing Malkin V. Matthews is funny, what Malkin did in his first 3 seasons compared to Matthews makes Matthews look like an AHL'er.

He said he thinks mats could be a Selke candidate in the future. Not this year you dolt.

And that last paragraph is peak irony. You don't read your own **** do you? Absolutely amazing that someone can have that little self awareness as you mostly just described yourself. Absolutely amazing.

You don't really explain why his stats are evil...

Since joining the NHL Marner sits 9th in total assists, that's crazy Elite talent, all those other players you mentioned aren't even close, heck in Marner's age group only McDavid and Barzal have cracked the Top 50. Like I said stats can "prove" any propaganda the user wants. Speaking of Barzal, let's see what an old school GM can handle a contract which compares to Marner. Dubas and other stat guys will be embarrassed. Wait I already know your response, but remember you are the one claiming Marner is a byproduct of Matthews and J.T. , so that inflates Marner's stats by 20 + points, which makes him equal to Barzal (who doesn't have an elite player beside him).

Amazing that you are still proving that you're an offensive troll to anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are sick and need mental help, I just noticed you also "liked" another trolls post stating my mom should have aborted my birth with a coat hanger, real classy, more prove of what type of "man" you are. You either need to be banned or suspended from this site or grow up.