Forums/Armchair-GM

Can we stop with the flat cap CBO nonsense

Created by: JayTea
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 7, 2020
Published: Apr. 10, 2020
Team: 2020-21 Tampa Bay Lightning
Team Explanation
Tagging rules prevent a team from committing more money to the next season than they’re currently spending. A flat cap won’t prevent any team from icing a roster next year in compliance with the $81.5m existing cap. Will some teams struggle? Sure, but they’ll figure it out just like they do every year when teams are tight against the cap.

Here’s an example of probably the worst case scenario for probably the most cap strapped team. If they can’t find trading partners to move a player or 2 and their RFAs don’t take ridiculous discounts to stay, they trade them away for pure futures that don’t impact the cap and sign a bunch of league minimum players to fill out a 22 man roster.

There won’t be a CBO with a flat cap. Why would there be?
Free Agent Signings
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
LW, 4th Line1$700,000
RW, 4th Line1$700,000
RD, 1st pair1$700,000
RD, 2nd pair1$700,000
RD, 3rd pair1$700,000
Scratch, Healthy1$700,000
Scratch, Healthy1$700,000
Trades
1.
TBL
    MIN
    1. Cirelli, Anthony [RFA Rights]
    Additional Details:
    Traded away for futures.
    2.
    TBL
      MTL
      1. Sergachev, Mikhail [RFA Rights]
      Additional Details:
      Traded away for futures
      3.
      TBL
        WPG
        1. Cernak, Erik [RFA Rights]
        Additional Details:
        Traded away for futures.
        Buyouts
        • Vincent Lecavalier: $0
        DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
        2020
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the PHI
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the DET
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the OTT
        Logo of the TBL
        2021
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the NSH
        Logo of the NJD
        2022
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        Logo of the TBL
        ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
        22$81,500,000$81,066,666$0$0$433,334
        Left WingCenterRight Wing
        Logo of the TBL
        Johnson, Tyler
        $5,000,000
        RW, C
        NTC
        UFA - 4
        Logo of the TBL
        Stamkos, Steven
        $8,500,000
        RW, C, LW
        NMC
        UFA - 4
        Logo of the TBL
        Kucherov, Nikita
        $9,500,000
        RW
        NMC
        UFA - 7
        Logo of the TBL
        Killorn, Alex
        $4,450,000
        LW
        NTC
        UFA - 3
        Logo of the TBL
        Point, Brayden
        $6,750,000
        C, RW
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the TBL
        Palat, Ondrej
        $5,300,000
        LW, RW
        NTC
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the TBL
        Goodrow, Barclay
        $925,000
        LW, C, RW
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the TBL
        Coleman, Blake
        $1,800,000
        LW, RW
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the TBL
        Gourde, Yanni
        $5,166,666
        C, LW, RW
        NTC
        UFA - 5
        LW, 4th Line
        $700,000
        Logo of the TBL
        Paquette, Cédric
        $1,650,000
        C, LW, RW
        UFA - 1
        RW, 4th Line
        $700,000
        Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
        Logo of the TBL
        Hedman, Victor
        $7,875,000
        LD
        NMC
        UFA - 5
        RD, 1st pair
        $700,000
        Logo of the TBL
        Vasilevskiy, Andrei
        $9,500,000
        G
        UFA - 8
        Logo of the TBL
        McDonagh, Ryan
        $6,750,000
        LD
        NTC
        UFA - 6
        RD, 2nd pair
        $700,000
        Logo of the TBL
        McElhinney, Curtis
        $1,300,000
        G
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the TBL
        Coburn, Braydon
        $1,700,000
        LD
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        RD, 3rd pair
        $700,000
        ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
        Scratch, Healthy
        $700,000
        Scratch, Healthy
        $700,000

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        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:33 p.m.
        #1
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        You can congrats Brian Burke with is non sense! He is the one who created that monster. The guy’s is a total clown and always starts idiotic rumors. He doesn’t have any thoughts of what is happening around the league and made that rumors based purely on is opinion.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:35 p.m.
        #2
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        Because the cap has averaged an increase of around $2 million a year over the last few seasons and GM’s have been expecting a cap increase. Next year the NHL announced the cap could increase up to 88 million. There is no “guarantee” there will be a CBO but it’s more likely than not. Reputable sources such as TSN and Sportsnet are speculating it’s possible
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        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:35 p.m.
        #3
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        Quoting: Sebybbq
        You can congrats Brian Burke with is non sense! He is the one who created that monster. The guy’s is a total clown and always starts idiotic rumors. He doesn’t have any thoughts of what is happening around the league and made that rumors based purely on is opinion.


        And websites desperate for clicks and traffic jumped on it, because they don't have anything else to talk about.
        Newgod77 liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:36 p.m.
        #4
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        Sabres trade Tage Thompson, Nelson and Borgen for Cirelli. Cover one Wing and 2 RHD...
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:36 p.m.
        #5
        MisstheWhalers
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        I tend to agree, doubt there will be a compliance buyout option given to each team and I think the cap will remain the same or go up slightly by $500k to $1M at most, the cap won't shrink.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:37 p.m.
        #6
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        Quoting: mhockey91
        Because the cap has averaged an increase of around $2 million a year over the last few seasons and GM’s have been expecting a cap increase. Next year the NHL announced the cap could increase up to 88 million. There is no “guarantee” there will be a CBO but it’s more likely than not. Reputable sources such as TSN and Sportsnet are speculating it’s possible


        And even if the chances are slim, the majority of these moves on this website are pure speculation to see what's possible. Considering the majority of these forum users are confined at home, I would rather see what options a CBO opens up then watch Barzal/Cirelli offersheets all day.

        In short, it isn't harming anyone, and it remains a small possibility. If you don't like it, don't click on it! Most threads identify in the title of there's a CBO or not.
        mhockey91 and CaptainFlynnt liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:37 p.m.
        #7
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        Quoting: Riley816
        Sabres trade Tage Thompson, Nelson and Borgen for Cirelli. Cover one Wing and 2 RHD...


        That doesn’t get it done lol. Not even close
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:38 p.m.
        #8
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        Quoting: mhockey91
        Because the cap has averaged an increase of around $2 million a year over the last few seasons and GM’s have been expecting a cap increase. Next year the NHL announced the cap could increase up to 88 million. There is no “guarantee” there will be a CBO but it’s more likely than not. Reputable sources such as TSN and Sportsnet are speculating it’s possible


        Because they have nothing else to talk about. They announced a higher cap projection last year, then announced a cap under that projection a few days before free agency. It happens every year.

        Ask yourself this: why would the league, in an effort to make up for lost revenue, allow teams to spend cash buying out a player with no cap hit only to spend more cash with the newly acquired cap space? How does that help with lost revenue?
        justaBoss and TheEarthmaster liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:40 p.m.
        #9
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        We keep doing it because we're bored as hell with no hockey.
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        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:40 p.m.
        #10
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        Quoting: JayTea
        Because they have nothing else to talk about. They announced a higher cap projection last year, then announced a cap under that projection a few days before free agency. It happens every year.

        Ask yourself this: why would the league, in an effort to make up for lost revenue, allow teams to spend cash buying out a player with no cap hit only to spend more cash with the newly acquired cap space? How does that help with lost revenue?


        Because the cap won’t increase as previously expected. A CBO gives teams flexibility to keep their teams intact (at least the players that they want to keep). A team like TBL for example could potentially buy out McDonagh in an effort to keep Sergy and Cirelli. No CBO + no cap increase means one of those guys will likely be traded. It won’t solve the loss in revenue but it will help their team which
        Wqrrior liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:42 p.m.
        #11
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        Quoting: JayTea
        Because they have nothing else to talk about.


        Bingo. That's why these threads are appearing...

        If you don't like it, don't click on it! Most threads identify in the title of there's a CBO or not.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 4:47 p.m.
        #12
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        The NHL told GMs that the cap would be 88-84 million and if it is a flat cap that is 2.5 million below what they themselves told them to plan for. The lowest possibility of what they told them to budget the next year. It isn't unreasonable to think they will be given an option.

        I don't care as Vegas would be able to work it either way but this has to do with the cap being 2.5 million lower than the lowest projection they gave teams, and they were budgeting next season with that in mind and possibly made deals they wouldn't have if the NHL didn't tell them to be confident in at least the low estimate.

        You "build teams the right way" by working to the limit of these estimates and making it good, you don't want to punish teams for doing so in this unexpected non-hockey event.
        mhockey91 liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:00 p.m.
        #13
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        Quoting: JayTea
        Because they have nothing else to talk about. They announced a higher cap projection last year, then announced a cap under that projection a few days before free agency. It happens every year.

        Ask yourself this: why would the league, in an effort to make up for lost revenue, allow teams to spend cash buying out a player with no cap hit only to spend more cash with the newly acquired cap space? How does that help with lost revenue?


        Pretty sure players that get bought out only get 2/3 there remaining salary, so it would actually save money and cap space in most scenarios (Lucic, Alzner, Neal, Bobrovsky, etc.). It would be rare that a player like Gourde or Johnson gets bought out, but TB likely would to defend offersheets. If they did they would get another good contract somewhere.

        The reason the cap comes in lower than expected every year is because the NHLPA doesn't want the escrow to go up, which would happen with a cap increase. But the NHL still gives there projections, the NHLPA has to agree to it.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
        #14
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        Quoting: Wqrrior
        Bingo. That's why these threads are appearing...

        If you don't like it, don't click on it! Most threads identify in the title of there's a CBO or not.


        The irony of you coming here, on this post with a clear title indicating what the topic is, and telling me don't click it if I don't like it isn't lost on me.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:12 p.m.
        #15
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        Quoting: Riley816
        Sabres trade Tage Thompson, Nelson and Borgen for Cirelli. Cover one Wing and 2 RHD...


        Lmfao add Cozens and TB won't laugh at your face
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:14 p.m.
        #16
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        Quoting: JayTea
        The irony of you coming here, on this post with a clear title indicating what the topic is, and telling me don't click it if I don't like it isn't lost on me.


        Sure, to a degree.

        I don't mind you posting this however. I'm just stating that people aren't going to change and stop posting CBO threads because one guy says "Stop". You appear to be one of few that is bothered by the CBO threads, therefore, since nobody will change, better to just move on and ignore threads pertaining to CBOs.
        mhockey91 liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:17 p.m.
        #17
        MisstheWhalers
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        Quoting: mhockey91
        Because the cap won’t increase as previously expected. A CBO gives teams flexibility to keep their teams intact (at least the players that they want to keep). A team like TBL for example could potentially buy out McDonagh in an effort to keep Sergy and Cirelli. No CBO + no cap increase means one of those guys will likely be traded. It won’t solve the loss in revenue but it will help their team which


        The cap was NEVER increasing as much as speculated though, it was never going from $81.5 all the way to $88M, if it stays flat which it likely is then teams that were in a cap crunch like Tampa are in a slightly tighter cap crunch, big deal!
        JayTea liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:17 p.m.
        #18
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        Quoting: mhockey91
        Because the cap won’t increase as previously expected. A CBO gives teams flexibility to keep their teams intact (at least the players that they want to keep). A team like TBL for example could potentially buy out McDonagh in an effort to keep Sergy and Cirelli. No CBO + no cap increase means one of those guys will likely be traded. It won’t solve the loss in revenue but it will help their team which


        You make it sound like Tampa would have been just fine with a cap increase of $2.5m as the low end of the early projection guessed. They were screwed the moment they put pen to paper to sign a goalie to a $9.5m contract when they were already going to need to do some salary cap gymnastics without his new deal. The point of a salary cap is to make it hard for teams to keep all of their players and promote parity. If a team is struggling to find cap space, they either have too many good players signed to market value deals or they signed the wrong guy to a horrible deal. Tampa has a mix of both of that going on, that's why i picked them as an example for why a flat cap shouldn't mean teams get a CBO.
        MisstheWhalers liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:19 p.m.
        #19
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        I don't want a CBO given either, lets be clear, but I'm not sure why this is such a negative sticking point for people that they feel they need to post things like this? Nothing has been proven to the contrary yet, nothing is guaranteed. NHL is not on record saying their will definitely not be a CBO......... so who cares? We're just seeing what that world would be like if there was one given. The key word here being "IF".

        The whole point of all of this is to have fun and speculate in this fantasy world.
        mhockey91 liked this.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:29 p.m.
        #20
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        Why is a flat cap with one CBO in 2020-21 not "nonsense"? Because, as Brian Burke undoubtedly knows, it will be preferred by both a majority of the GMs and the NHLPA relative to the alternative (and it will benefit the Leafs and the other influential marquee teams).
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:33 p.m.
        #21
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        Quoting: CaptainFlynnt
        Pretty sure players that get bought out only get 2/3 there remaining salary, so it would actually save money and cap space in most scenarios (Lucic, Alzner, Neal, Bobrovsky, etc.). It would be rare that a player like Gourde or Johnson gets bought out, but TB likely would to defend offersheets. If they did they would get another good contract somewhere.

        The reason the cap comes in lower than expected every year is because the NHLPA doesn't want the escrow to go up, which would happen with a cap increase. But the NHL still gives there projections, the NHLPA has to agree to it.


        You're still spending more actual cash even with the reduced payout on a buyout. You don't buyout Lucic for $4m in real cash and then sign a replacement for $6m in real cash with the newly freed up cap space and come out ahead financially. The math doesn't work that way.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 5:35 p.m.
        #22
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        Quoting: Sr_Advisor_Hockey_Ops
        Why is a flat cap with one CBO in 2020-21 not "nonsense"? Because, as Brian Burke undoubtedly knows, it will be preferred by both a majority of the GMs and the NHLPA relative to the alternative (and it will benefit the Leafs and the other influential marquee teams).


        Not sure how a CBO would really benefit the Leafs.
        Apr. 10, 2020 at 7:15 p.m.
        #23
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        Quoting: F50marco
        I don't want a CBO given either, lets be clear, but I'm not sure why this is such a negative sticking point for people that they feel they need to post things like this? Nothing has been proven to the contrary yet, nothing is guaranteed. NHL is not on record saying their will definitely not be a CBO......... so who cares? We're just seeing what that world would be like if there was one given. The key word here being "IF".

        The whole point of all of this is to have fun and speculate in this fantasy world.


        Exactly. It’s entirely possible that there is a CBO. There’s plenty of speculation around it. But nothing is forsure.
         
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