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How Does The General Hockey Community View Jack Johnson

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 21, 2020
Published: Apr. 21, 2020
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I don’t understand the deal with Jack Johnson, he’s such a polarizing player. This season, he has been praised highly by the team’s front office and media regarding his play, but there are also fans who believe he is really bad at what he does. Based on what I see watching him game in & game out, JJ has a really hard time moving the puck out of the defensive zone. He’s not very quick or sharp & struggles immensely under pressure. He has trouble defending the front of the net as he always misses out on the guy he’s supposed to mark & gets walked around frequently. It seems most times when he’s on the ice, the team gets stuck in their own end. According to the stats, the team concedes a lopsided percentage of shots & scoring chances when he’s on the ice. I really don’t see how he is good. He shouldn’t continue playing for this team.
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Kinvall, Johannes
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G
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Kinvall, Johannes
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:05 p.m.
#1
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:06 p.m.
#2
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No. Hes bad
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:07 p.m.
#3
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Bad (really bad) but wouldn't look as bad in a much MUCH lesser role
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:07 p.m.
#4
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No, he's absolutely awful, anyone who says otherwise is just wrong
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:08 p.m.
#5
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If the team doesn't praise him they'll never be able to convince someone to take him off of their hands. He sucks
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:10 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite


I’m not a Pens fan but I really don’t understand the hate Jack Johnson gets. It’s been blown way out of proportion by typical fans like you making him the scapegoat. In his prime, he was an all star defenseman who was selected to represent USA at the Olympics and World Cup. He may not be the same player he was but he is still damm effective. He leads all Penguins defensemen in hits & blocks. You’ve gotta keep in mind he plays with Letang & Schultz whom are both fully offensive minded defensemen yet have no idea how to play without the puck. That’s why he concedes so many shots. Honestly, Johnson’s contract isn’t even that bad. There are many other teams that have way worse players making way more, like Mitch Marner of Toronto.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:13 p.m.
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Quoting: HattrickKane88
I’m not a Pens fan but I really don’t understand the hate Jack Johnson gets. It’s been blown way out of proportion by typical fans like you making him the scapegoat. In his prime, he was an all star defenseman who was selected to represent USA at the Olympics and World Cup. He may not be the same player he was but he is still damm effective. He leads all Penguins defensemen in hits & blocks. You’ve gotta keep in mind he plays with Letang & Schultz whom are both fully offensive minded defensemen yet have no idea how to play without the puck. That’s why he concedes so many shots. Honestly, Johnson’s contract isn’t even that bad. There are many other teams that have way worse players making way more, like Mitch Marner of Toronto.


Mitch marner makes 1.5 million more then his comparables. Jack Johnson makes 3.25 million dollars more then he should. The fact that the two are even in the same conversation is hilarious. Johnson isnt an nhl player making 3.25 million a season, marner is a borderline superstar who's worth the money he makes

Johnson was never very good.
Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:13 p.m.
#8
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Are there people who say he's a good hockey player in any way?
Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:14 p.m.
#9
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if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:17 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: leafs101
If the team doesn't praise him they'll never be able to convince someone to take him off of their hands. He sucks


This. It makes no sense to crap on your own asset. You gain nothing from it.

Truth is Jack Johnson is not what he used to be, most people see that and no one wants to have the guy that spent full price on a has been because you are paying for name more than performance. He's easily still an NHL'er just not nearly the caliber he once was. No one would be crapping on him if he was making 900K.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:18 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite


He really isn't that bad. Dumoulin and Schultz have been injured for basically the whole year and we still have a top 10 defense with him playing almost 20 minutes a night. He's no longer a top pairing defenseman but we won the cup with Rob Scuderi and Hal Gill on our bottom pairing. We won back to back cups with Olli Maatta and won one of those with no Letang. Also from what I've heard he's good in the locker room so I think we'll survive if he's here another year or two.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:20 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: pharrow
if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.


For sure, the problem is his contract. Its the same situation as Brent Seabrook except he makes half as much money. Neither of them would be getting the **** they get if they werent signed to bad contracts. They had their glory days until the game changed. You're going to have defensemen who can only handle third line minutes, but ideally those guys are not making more than 1.5 mil
Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:20 p.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.


If I could like this twice I would
Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:22 p.m.
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Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan
Bad (really bad) but wouldn't look as bad in a much MUCH lesser role


Exactly. If hockey comes back he SHOULD be our #6D playing sheltered minutes. Earlier in the season he looked okay playing sheltered minutes then the injuries started to unfold. He’s not worth his cap hit but he’ll be bought out this offseason anyways
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:26 p.m.
#15
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Even at his peak....Jack Johnson had a negative on ice impact, especially on Defense. But got some big point point totals due mostly to PP.

He's like Ristolainen if Risto was 33.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:27 p.m.
#16
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He bad
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:27 p.m.
#17
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I love criticizing him but if he's in NHL and playing regularly, he's certainly " okay " at something. Especially if on a good team/staff/direction like the Pens.

Quoting: pharrow
if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.


Agreed here, depends on the role he has. If he plays some games, with limited ice time and if he plays with a good D partner, he might not look that bad. Surprised the Pens played him with Letang for most part of the season (I know Dumoulin was injured but still).


But overall, he's probably one of the worst LD in the league, if not the worst (still sucks TOR didn't gave any chance to Ben Harpur).
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:34 p.m.
#18
Hockey IQ
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite


Short answer-no.
Is he as bad as the haters say? No.

Quoting: pharrow
if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.


Agree. The fact that he's overpaid and had to play as the #1LHD WAY TOO LONG emphasized his mistakes that much more. I'd say that overall he's a bad NHL defenseman, but only a below average 3rd pairing defenceman. I'll say he gets way too much blame. What other defenseman has clips of his failures publicized as much as JJ? Every game we lose is (according to haters and people who over blow everything) the fault of one of JJ, Letang, Murray, Simon, or Wes Macauley(that's the only one they might have a case for... Just ridiculous. It is still a team game and there are 38+ players not to mention coaches, refs, and on occasion zamboni drivers who impact a game.

Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly. If hockey comes back he SHOULD be our #6D playing sheltered minutes. Earlier in the season he looked okay playing sheltered minutes then the injuries started to unfold. He’s not worth his cap hit but he’ll be bought out this offseason anyways


I hope he is bought out. Schultz IMHO was worse than JJ this year. I'm not too confident in a JJ-Schultz pairing when the playoffs resume. If Schultz picks his game up that would help a lot. Maybe Sully will bench him for the first game of the playoffs like last year, and maybe he'll stay benched, and just maybe we'll do a whole lot better than get swept in the first round.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:40 p.m.
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Quoting: Pens3lieve
Short answer-no.
Is he as bad as the haters say? No.



Agree. The fact that he's overpaid and had to play as the #1LHD WAY TOO LONG emphasized his mistakes that much more. I'd say that overall he's a bad NHL defenseman, but only a below average 3rd pairing defenceman. I'll say he gets way too much blame. What other defenseman has clips of his failures publicized as much as JJ? Every game we lose is (according to haters and people who over blow everything) the fault of one of JJ, Letang, Murray, Simon, or Wes Macauley(that's the only one they might have a case for... Just ridiculous. It is still a team game and there are 38+ players not to mention coaches, refs, and on occasion zamboni drivers who impact a game.



I hope he is bought out. Schultz IMHO was worse than JJ this year. I'm not too confident in a JJ-Schultz pairing when the playoffs resume. If Schultz picks his game up that would help a lot. Maybe Sully will bench him for the first game of the playoffs like last year, and maybe he'll stay benched, and just maybe we'll do a whole lot better than get swept in the first round.


In an ideal world I’d Play rikola over JJ
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 2:49 p.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
if he was a 3rd pairing guy making 1.5 million a year no one would complain.
But when ever someone hurts he's always the guy who gets moved. He got shafted on the RHD out of position for almost a full season because no one else could do it.
He got moved up to 1st pairing for 1/2 a year because who else was there?
He had no business in either spot but there were no other options. If you took your average 3rd pairing guy and played him 1st pairing your results wouldn't be much different. In the beginning of the year when he played his natural LHD role in a 3rd pairing situation. There was not a whole lot to complain about.
Is JJ a bad defense man, he's not a 1st pairing guy that's for sure. Is he awful. He's clearly got NHL talent.
There is no real answer to this question because if you say a guy is good, you expect him to be 1st pairing. But not all "good" defense men are 1st pairing guys. You just have to know your role and fill it.
If you think Riikola would have been any better in 1st pairing minutes you are kidding yourself.

He's a 3rd pairing LHD. It is what it is. Does that make you good or bad? depends where you are forced to play.


This. This is spot on.
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 3:02 p.m.
#21
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Jack is just slightly past his prime, but still serviceable as bottom pair D man on 12-14 minutes a game.
When he first was traded to Columbus around 2012, he came from the LA Kings who were in their prime and winning championships.
He handled it with class, was a quiet leader, and was a very good top pair D man.
But both age and some off-ice issues really took a toll on his game.
I think he is a class guy, and will always respect him for what he brought to the Jackets for the 7 or so years he was here.
Apr. 21, 2020 at 3:33 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: leafs101
If the team doesn't praise him they'll never be able to convince someone to take him off of their hands. He sucks


You’re right about that. Good point.
Apr. 21, 2020 at 3:35 p.m.
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Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan
Bad (really bad) but wouldn't look as bad in a much MUCH lesser role


IDK man. During the last 5 games of the season, he was playing on the third pairing for 15 minutes a night. He averaged an expected goals against percentage of 80, which means 4 out of 5 times when he’s on the ice, he team gives up a scoring chance.
Apr. 21, 2020 at 3:35 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: Jack_
No. Hes bad


Quoting: AFOX10900
No, he's absolutely awful, anyone who says otherwise is just wrong


Like below replacement level bad?
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Apr. 21, 2020 at 3:39 p.m.
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Quoting: HattrickKane88
I’m not a Pens fan but I really don’t understand the hate Jack Johnson gets. It’s been blown way out of proportion by typical fans like you making him the scapegoat. In his prime, he was an all star defenseman who was selected to represent USA at the Olympics and World Cup. He may not be the same player he was but he is still damm effective. He leads all Penguins defensemen in hits & blocks. You’ve gotta keep in mind he plays with Letang & Schultz whom are both fully offensive minded defensemen yet have no idea how to play without the puck. That’s why he concedes so many shots. Honestly, Johnson’s contract isn’t even that bad. There are many other teams that have way worse players making way more, like Mitch Marner of Toronto.


Explain to me why JJ concedes shots and scoring chances at a rate so much higher than the two defensemen you mentioned? Maybe it’s because of his incapabilities to mark the opposition & exit the zone. Also, mentioning Marner was a worst contract is absurd. Before enduring through a slump during the final month of the season, he was driving offence at an elite level & his market value was 9.9 million AAV. Even though he’s just 1.5 million overpaid. No where near as bad as Jack Johnson’s contract.
 
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