Forums/NHL

Hawks vs Penguins Best Teams Of Cap Era

Apr. 27, 2020 at 10:56 p.m.
#26
NoWah49
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 3,812
Likes: 1,146
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
I’ve wanted to make this post for a while since the Penguins and Blackhawks are undoubtedly the best 2 two teams of the salary cap era with 3 cups each. I took the best player from both teams’ championship teams and put them against each other. Here’s how they look:

Chicago Blackhawks

Coach: Joel Quenneville

Saad-Toews-Hossa
Sharp-Richards-Kane
Ladd-Vermette-Teravainen
Bickell-Bolland-Versteeg

Keith-Seabrook
Campbell-Byfuglien
Oduya-Hjalmarsson

Crawford
Niemi

Pittsburgh Penguins

Coach: Mike Sullivan

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Dupuis-Staal-Guerin

Gonchar-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Maatta-Daley

Fleury
Murray

Imagine every player at their peak. Which team wins a 7 game series?


Gonna sound biased, but I got the Pens. Even if it's Richards in his peak, you can't beat the 1-2 punch of Sid and Geno. Schultz was a stud #1 d-man in the 2017 playoffs as well; he really stepped up. Plus the HBK line at it's peak might be up there for one of the best 3rd lines ever.
Pens3lieve liked this.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 12:07 a.m.
#27
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 19,215
Likes: 4,833
Honestly I think you are comparing the wrong team.
That 1st cup team, I think was probably the best team of the Crosby/Malkin era.

Don't get me wrong, the HBK penguins were a much faster team than the rest of the league, but they still struggled against Chicago. They lost both games to them.
But that 09 team, they were just too much. And they beat Chicago.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 9:13 a.m.
#28
SHANE WRIGHT SZN
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 13,524
Likes: 6,802
No Panarin on the Hawks?
Apr. 28, 2020 at 10:37 a.m.
#29
Below Market Value
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2015
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 1,239
Quoting: MaxDomi13
No Panarin on the Hawks?


Panarin wasn't on any of the Cup teams, he didn't come to the NHL until 15-16.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 11:44 a.m.
#30
SHANE WRIGHT SZN
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2019
Posts: 13,524
Likes: 6,802
Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
Panarin wasn't on any of the Cup teams, he didn't come to the NHL until 15-16.


oh okay
Apr. 28, 2020 at 1:13 p.m.
#31
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: Sebybbq
The Pens have had so much great depth players over the past 15 years. I remember in their first cup Graig Adams was playinh a major role, then they had guy like Cullen, Hagelin, Bonino, Dupuis, Cooke, Talbot,


Agree the Penguins, though probably didn’t have as much high end talent as Chicago overall, had a lot of consistent utility players who came up in big moments during the playoffs.
Pharow liked this.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 1:15 p.m.
#32
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: NoWah49
Gonna sound biased, but I got the Pens. Even if it's Richards in his peak, you can't beat the 1-2 punch of Sid and Geno. Schultz was a stud #1 d-man in the 2017 playoffs as well; he really stepped up. Plus the HBK line at it's peak might be up there for one of the best 3rd lines ever.


Yes I agree Schultz at his peak was a Premier Defenseman who finished top 10 in the Norris votes. He’s not Byfuglien but too many people forget that.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 1:18 p.m.
#33
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: pharrow
Honestly I think you are comparing the wrong team.
That 1st cup team, I think was probably the best team of the Crosby/Malkin era.

Don't get me wrong, the HBK penguins were a much faster team than the rest of the league, but they still struggled against Chicago. They lost both games to them.
But that 09 team, they were just too much. And they beat Chicago.


I think Sid & Geno were more dominant in 2009 than 2016 individually but that 2016 team outshot, outpossessed & outshot their opponents by a wide margin.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 1:29 p.m.
#34
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 5,081
Likes: 1,433
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Agree the Penguins, though probably didn’t have as much high end talent as Chicago overall, had a lot of consistent utility players who came up in big moments during the playoffs.

I totally agree on that. When you look at Sid and Geno winger for the past 15 years the list isn’t outstanding.
James neal, Kessel, Guentzel, Kunitz thats probably the best they had.
Chicago had Saad, Panarin, Hossa, Byfuglien, Havlat (doesnt had much impact but still very talented), Patrick Sharp, Shaw and Versteeg
lot more talent on their wing then Pittsburgh had but considering the centerline that they had they could do it.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 1:59 p.m.
#35
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: Sebybbq
I totally agree on that. When you look at Sid and Geno winger for the past 15 years the list isn’t outstanding.
James neal, Kessel, Guentzel, Kunitz thats probably the best they had.
Chicago had Saad, Panarin, Hossa, Byfuglien, Havlat (doesnt had much impact but still very talented), Patrick Sharp, Shaw and Versteeg
lot more talent on their wing then Pittsburgh had but considering the centerline that they had they could do it.


Yes I agree I forgot about Havlat. He was a 50-60 point guy. I’ve gotta see if he makes my all time Czech team now.
Pharow liked this.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 2:01 p.m.
#36
Habs/Pens fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 852
Likes: 273
Alright this series will be 7 games as both teams are very close. However let's compare the 2 and how each line stacks up.

Coaching: John Quenneville vs. Mike Sullivan

This is too close to call both are fantastic and adaptable. I'll give each team on point each. (1-1)

Forwards

For this and the defensive pairs I'll do each line 1 by 1.

Line 1 (Saad-Toews-Hossa vs. Kuntiz-Crosby-Hornqvist)

Seems like both teams are using shutdown lines as their top lines with probably means it'll be the lower lines that will make more of a difference. Crosby is by far the best offensive player on either line however Toews will neutralize the production on this for the Pens however I can't see how the Pens will shutdown Toews so 1 point for the Hawks. Hossa is by far the best winger on either lines. (2-1 Hawks)

Line 2 (Sharp-Richards-Kane vs. Guentzel-Malkin-Rust)

While line 1 are more shutdown lines both teams are putting their better offensive players on line 2. Richards was past his prime for the Hawks while Rust was weaker than he is today so we have a few players not in their primes on either line. Malkin and Guentzel are also playoff performers while Kane's production is more along the lines of Guentzel rather than Malkin making this a point for Pittsburgh. (2-2)

Line 3 (Ladd-Vermette-Teravainen vs. Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel)

This is where Pittsburgh has it's edge, offensive depth. While the hawks are using more of shutdown line the Pens are using an effective scoring line with great chemistry. Note that Teravainen is also not in his prime yet either. Easy point for the Pens (3-2 Penguins)

Line 4 (Bickell-Bolland-Versteeg vs. Dupuis-Staal-Guerin)

Having Jordan Staal as 4th line center probably means your team is staked. Most of these players are 3rd/4th line players that can occasionally go up in the line up while Jordan Staal probably would have been a 2C if not on Pittsburgh during the '09 cup win. Another point for Pittsburgh (4-2 Pens)

Defense

This will be similar to the forwards

Pairing 1 (Keith-Seabrook vs. Gonchar-Letang)

Once again Chicago are going with a shutdown pair while Pittsburgh goes more offensive. All 4 of these defensemen were top pairing guys in their prime however only Duncan Keith is a Norris winner so that will give the edge to the Hawks for this point. (4-3 Pens)

Pairing 2 (Campbell-Byfuglien vs. Dumoulin-Schultz )

Dustin Byfuglien offers something that Pittsburgh can't quite match. Both guys on the hawks provide good offense and defense while the Pens have a shutdown guy and a offensive threat in Schultz. I think Buff is the x factor for the Hawks here so one more point for them (4-4)

Pairing 3 (Oduya-Hjalmarsson vs. Maatta-Daley)

Again both teams are using shutdown pairings this time so let's compare this important battle. It's clear so far that Pittsburgh has the offensive edge while Chicago has the defensive edge. Most of these players are 2nd/3rd pairing guys with Hjalmarsson being the clear standout of the 4. Hjalmarsson was one of the better shutdown guys in the league on a team with Toews, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook. The Maatta-Daley pair didn't have great chemistry either so it's an easy point for the Hawks. (5-4 Hawks)

Goaltending

For this I'll compare the 2 starters while sorta factoring the backups with their own comparison.

Starters (Crawford vs. Fleury)

Funny enough Fleury's peak was after he left Pittsburgh so it's kind of an weird comparison. While Fleury's is better, is wasn't with Pittsburgh so it's yet another point for the Hawks (6-4 Hawks)

Backups (Niemi vs. Murray)

Ok this is easy. Murray will step in easier than Niemi in case the starter got injured (6-5 Hawks)

While the Pens have great offense, the hawks have x-factors in Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson and Hossa that the Penguins simply don't have.
Apr. 28, 2020 at 7:19 p.m.
#37
Thread Starter
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: Hockeylover360
Alright this series will be 7 games as both teams are very close. However let's compare the 2 and how each line stacks up.

Coaching: John Quenneville vs. Mike Sullivan

This is too close to call both are fantastic and adaptable. I'll give each team on point each. (1-1)

Forwards

For this and the defensive pairs I'll do each line 1 by 1.

Line 1 (Saad-Toews-Hossa vs. Kuntiz-Crosby-Hornqvist)

Seems like both teams are using shutdown lines as their top lines with probably means it'll be the lower lines that will make more of a difference. Crosby is by far the best offensive player on either line however Toews will neutralize the production on this for the Pens however I can't see how the Pens will shutdown Toews so 1 point for the Hawks. Hossa is by far the best winger on either lines. (2-1 Hawks)

Line 2 (Sharp-Richards-Kane vs. Guentzel-Malkin-Rust)

While line 1 are more shutdown lines both teams are putting their better offensive players on line 2. Richards was past his prime for the Hawks while Rust was weaker than he is today so we have a few players not in their primes on either line. Malkin and Guentzel are also playoff performers while Kane's production is more along the lines of Guentzel rather than Malkin making this a point for Pittsburgh. (2-2)

Line 3 (Ladd-Vermette-Teravainen vs. Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel)

This is where Pittsburgh has it's edge, offensive depth. While the hawks are using more of shutdown line the Pens are using an effective scoring line with great chemistry. Note that Teravainen is also not in his prime yet either. Easy point for the Pens (3-2 Penguins)

Line 4 (Bickell-Bolland-Versteeg vs. Dupuis-Staal-Guerin)

Having Jordan Staal as 4th line center probably means your team is staked. Most of these players are 3rd/4th line players that can occasionally go up in the line up while Jordan Staal probably would have been a 2C if not on Pittsburgh during the '09 cup win. Another point for Pittsburgh (4-2 Pens)

Defense

This will be similar to the forwards

Pairing 1 (Keith-Seabrook vs. Gonchar-Letang)

Once again Chicago are going with a shutdown pair while Pittsburgh goes more offensive. All 4 of these defensemen were top pairing guys in their prime however only Duncan Keith is a Norris winner so that will give the edge to the Hawks for this point. (4-3 Pens)

Pairing 2 (Campbell-Byfuglien vs. Dumoulin-Schultz )

Dustin Byfuglien offers something that Pittsburgh can't quite match. Both guys on the hawks provide good offense and defense while the Pens have a shutdown guy and a offensive threat in Schultz. I think Buff is the x factor for the Hawks here so one more point for them (4-4)

Pairing 3 (Oduya-Hjalmarsson vs. Maatta-Daley)

Again both teams are using shutdown pairings this time so let's compare this important battle. It's clear so far that Pittsburgh has the offensive edge while Chicago has the defensive edge. Most of these players are 2nd/3rd pairing guys with Hjalmarsson being the clear standout of the 4. Hjalmarsson was one of the better shutdown guys in the league on a team with Toews, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook. The Maatta-Daley pair didn't have great chemistry either so it's an easy point for the Hawks. (5-4 Hawks)

Goaltending

For this I'll compare the 2 starters while sorta factoring the backups with their own comparison.

Starters (Crawford vs. Fleury)

Funny enough Fleury's peak was after he left Pittsburgh so it's kind of an weird comparison. While Fleury's is better, is wasn't with Pittsburgh so it's yet another point for the Hawks (6-4 Hawks)

Backups (Niemi vs. Murray)

Ok this is easy. Murray will step in easier than Niemi in case the starter got injured (6-5 Hawks)

While the Pens have great offense, the hawks have x-factors in Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson and Hossa that the Penguins simply don't have.


Precise detailed analysis from you my friend. I agree on all points.
May 9, 2020 at 6:13 p.m.
#38
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: SlickWilly
I think for the sake of how things played out, Im gonna put Shaw there instead of Ladd, swap Oduya and Hammer to the 2nd d line, and replace Buff with Leddy. Im going to go about this by comparing lines.
1st line :
Crosby is clearly the best player in the world, but peak Toews was up for the Selke almost every year, and prime Hossa with early cup runs saad flanks him with two amazing 2 way forwards, so im going to give the slight edge to the HAWKS for that one.
2nd line :
Malkin is the best 2c in the league, and guentzel could definitely be a 1st line player, but peak Kane is Hart and Art Ross Trophy winning forward and his playmaking next to Sharp was uncomparable, so I will call that a DRAW
3rd line (with Shaw instead of Ladd) :
Shaw and Vermette were two gritty guys who could also put the puck in the net, and Teravainen is really coming into his own as a good skill player, but prime Kessel was one of the best pure goal scorers in the game and Hagelin was one of the fastest guys as well, so Ill give the edge to the PENS
4th line :
Bickell was a great power forward before he got vertigo and Versteeg was a good speed and skill guy, but I think Staal and Talbot wouldve been able to shut them down so i think i will give the edge to the PENS
Now the defense here to me is where the difference really is. Letang and Gonchar were two of the better defensemen in the game, but Keith was up for the Norris every year and won it twice, Seabrook wasnt a slouch and came up clutch for the hawks so many times, and Oduya and Hammer were the best shutdown pairing in the league. I think the prime Hawks defense and the ability to consistently roll with whoever was out there just made it so much easier for them, and Keith still played 30 minutes a night. So for the defense, the HAWKS have the advantage
Goaltending was the only real point of contention for the hawks, but if we are talking prime, Crawford only had bottomed out at a .917 and peaked at a .929 percentage between the years of 2012 and 2018, while I dont think I have to argue anything for MAF, so while I will give the overall edge to Fleury, prime Crawford was very good
Overall, I think the defense for the hawks just makes too big of a difference for me to get over, so while it is close and goes to OT in game 7, I think I give it to the Hawks




The only thing questionable is Fleury being better than Crawford. Flower was the worst playoff goalie for a very long time and it took him being suplanted for Pit to do anything in the post season whether it was Fleury or Vokoun. There isnt any stat you could argue Fleury was better than crawford in
May 9, 2020 at 6:16 p.m.
#39
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: NoWah49
Gonna sound biased, but I got the Pens. Even if it's Richards in his peak, you can't beat the 1-2 punch of Sid and Geno. Schultz was a stud #1 d-man in the 2017 playoffs as well; he really stepped up. Plus the HBK line at it's peak might be up there for one of the best 3rd lines ever.


Hawks had 65 pt Vermette, Point per game Teravainen and 65 pt Ladd as their third line that is instantly better than the HBK line which was Kessel carrying Bonino and Hagelin.

Chicago has 5 #1 Dman (Campbell should be there over Oduya) in Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, and Byfuglien. Hawks defensive game shuts the Pens down while their deeper forward lines take advantange of Pits weaker blue lines and questionable goaltending in Fleury.

Even if Malkin is better than Peak Brad Richards. Sharp and Kane are still miles ahead of Guentzel and Rust to the point the advantage is nullified.
May 9, 2020 at 6:35 p.m.
#40
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Edited May 9, 2020 at 6:41 p.m.
Line by line

Saad-Toews-Hossa

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist

Hawks first line shuts the Pens top line down pretty easily.
Sharp-Richards-Kane

Guentzel-Malkin-Rust

Sharp and Kane are a lot better than Guentzel and Rust despite Malkin being better than peak Brad Richards.

Ladd-Vermette-Teravainen

Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel

65+ pt Ladd and Vermette are better than Bonino and Hagelin at their peaks.

Kessel is better for right now but Teuvo still has time to surpass his 2018 season. Teuvo never leaked goals against like Kessel did and is already a PPG player but Kessel keeps the edge for now.

Shaw-Bolland-Versteeg

Dupuis-Staal-Guerin

Guerin and Staal were better in their absolute peak despite Bolland and Versteeg being 55pt players


Keith-Seabrook

Gonchar-Letang

No question peak Keith and seabrook is better than Letang-Gonchar


Campbell-Byfuglien
Dumoulin-Schultz

Not even a debate.

Timmonen-Hjalmarsson
Maatta-Daley

Again not even a debate.


Crawford Miles better than fleury in every stat.
Niemi Murray has to be vezina finalist to be better than Niemi was at his peak.

Pens have without a doubt the better center group and the two best players in Crosby and Malkin but Chicagos depth, defense, and goaltending being better are too much. There is a reason why the Pens always struggled against teams like Boston, Detroit, and most recently the isles when it came to the playoffs. Chicago has the depth to shut the best players on the Pens down while having the depth to line match against them perfectly with Toews-Hossa-Saad, Keith-Seabrook, Hjalmarsson-Campbell, etc on top of having the better goalies.

There is a reason Chicago throughly womped Pittsburgh even when the Pens had their two best teams in the cap era (16 and 18). Crawford being better than Fleury/Murray, and the fact they have had no problem containing Crosby and Malkin through out their careers while Toews and Kane consistently go off on the Pens
May 9, 2020 at 6:44 p.m.
#41
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: Sidstick87
Would have loved to watch Sid abuse Toews for 5 or 6 games until Pens won.
Then Geno would have dominated any #2 Center of CHI.

Plus my god Gonch & Letang pairing with both in prime? My god, what a Nitemare that would have been for teams


Toews is the one who abused Crosby

PPG against the Pens while Sid is a -15 and only has 7 pts in almos 20 games. Hawks already proven they have no problem abusing Fleury and can drop a 10 spot on Murray. Keith and Seabrook are miles better than Letang and Gonchar.
May 9, 2020 at 7:00 p.m.
#42
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 15,872
Likes: 6,900
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
Toews is the one who abused Crosby

PPG against the Pens while Sid is a -15 and only has 7 pts in almos 20 games. Hawks already proven they have no problem abusing Fleury and can drop a 10 spot on Murray. Keith and Seabrook are miles better than Letang and Gonchar.


Your last comment is false. Keith May be miles better, but Letang and gonchar both had better careers than Seabrook.
May 9, 2020 at 7:01 p.m.
#43
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 15,872
Likes: 6,900
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
Line by line

Saad-Toews-Hossa

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist

Hawks first line shuts the Pens top line down pretty easily.
Sharp-Richards-Kane

Guentzel-Malkin-Rust

Sharp and Kane are a lot better than Guentzel and Rust despite Malkin being better than peak Brad Richards.

Ladd-Vermette-Teravainen

Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel

65+ pt Ladd and Vermette are better than Bonino and Hagelin at their peaks.

Kessel is better for right now but Teuvo still has time to surpass his 2018 season. Teuvo never leaked goals against like Kessel did and is already a PPG player but Kessel keeps the edge for now.

Shaw-Bolland-Versteeg

Dupuis-Staal-Guerin

Guerin and Staal were better in their absolute peak despite Bolland and Versteeg being 55pt players


Keith-Seabrook

Gonchar-Letang

No question peak Keith and seabrook is better than Letang-Gonchar


Campbell-Byfuglien
Dumoulin-Schultz

Not even a debate.

Timmonen-Hjalmarsson
Maatta-Daley

Again not even a debate.


Crawford Miles better than fleury in every stat.
Niemi Murray has to be vezina finalist to be better than Niemi was at his peak.

Pens have without a doubt the better center group and the two best players in Crosby and Malkin but Chicagos depth, defense, and goaltending being better are too much. There is a reason why the Pens always struggled against teams like Boston, Detroit, and most recently the isles when it came to the playoffs. Chicago has the depth to shut the best players on the Pens down while having the depth to line match against them perfectly with Toews-Hossa-Saad, Keith-Seabrook, Hjalmarsson-Campbell, etc on top of having the better goalies.

There is a reason Chicago throughly womped Pittsburgh even when the Pens had their two best teams in the cap era (16 and 18). Crawford being better than Fleury/Murray, and the fact they have had no problem containing Crosby and Malkin through out their careers while Toews and Kane consistently go off on the Pens


This is the most biased thing I’ve read in a long time. I’m just not gonna bother commenting further lol.
May 9, 2020 at 7:07 p.m.
#44
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: mhockey91
This is the most biased thing I’ve read in a long time. I’m just not gonna bother commenting further lol.


Nothing biased Crawford is better than Fleury
Niemi in 2013 is a top goalie

The entire Hawks D core is better

Shaw is better than Dupuis. Ladd and Vermette are better than Bonino and Hagelin ever were throughout their careers.

Kane and Sharp are better than Guentzel and Rust. Hossa is better than Kunitz and Saad is better than Hornqvist. Nothing to really debate. Hawks had the better players and teams as a whole despite Pit having Crosby and Malkin. Seabrook is better defensively than Gonchar and Letang ever were in their careers.
May 9, 2020 at 7:20 p.m.
#45
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 15,872
Likes: 6,900
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
Nothing biased Crawford is better than Fleury
Niemi in 2013 is a top goalie

The entire Hawks D core is better

Shaw is better than Dupuis. Ladd and Vermette are better than Bonino and Hagelin ever were throughout their careers.

Kane and Sharp are better than Guentzel and Rust. Hossa is better than Kunitz and Saad is better than Hornqvist. Nothing to really debate. Hawks had the better players and teams as a whole despite Pit having Crosby and Malkin. Seabrook is better defensively than Gonchar and Letang ever were in their careers.


You’re out to lunch.

-Prime Kunitz >>> saad. Not even debatable. Kunitz was a first team all star his best year
-Prime Hornqvist > saad. He was putting up 30 goal pace and was a force in front of the net. Saad’s best years weren’t even in Chicago.
-Dupuis at his peak in the 2012 and 2013 seasons was better than Shaw ever was on Chicago. 59 points and 38 points in the lockout season. Shaw’s most productive year on Chicago? 39 points. It’s not even close.
-laads best years were on Winnipeg. Vermette was done by the time he got to Chicago. If we’re talking CAREERS then sure, but when hags and pit played on Pitt during the 15-16 season they performed better than laad or vermette ever did on Chicago. (Laad had a great year of 49 points on Chicago early on)
-sharp vs Guenztal, interesting one, but I think Guenztal will be a better player over his whole career. This one you can argue both sides.
-Hossa and Kane forsure were better than Guenztal and Rust.
-Letang and gonchar were way better than seabrook, if you don’t think so you’re bias.
-Chicago’s D is better than Pitts but once again, guys like Campbell and Byuf were better after Chicago, so it’s a lot closer than you think.
May 9, 2020 at 9:02 p.m.
#46
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2017
Posts: 7,275
Likes: 4,919
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
Hawks had 65 pt Vermette, Point per game Teravainen and 65 pt Ladd as their third line that is instantly better than the HBK line which was Kessel carrying Bonino and Hagelin.

Chicago has 5 #1 Dman (Campbell should be there over Oduya) in Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, and Byfuglien. Hawks defensive game shuts the Pens down while their deeper forward lines take advantange of Pits weaker blue lines and questionable goaltending in Fleury.

Even if Malkin is better than Peak Brad Richards. Sharp and Kane are still miles ahead of Guentzel and Rust to the point the advantage is nullified.


Vermette and Teravainen werent big difference makers in CHI. Vermette scored 65 when he was on CBJ not CHI. Teravainen was not even close to a point per game in CHI. You cant take players career highs and apply that to their time in CHI. Thats like saying OTT is stacked since they have Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, Mikkel Boedker, Craig Anderson, Clarke MacArthur, Dion Phaneuf, and Alex Burrows.
mhockey91 liked this.
May 10, 2020 at 2:35 p.m.
#47
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: moli92
Vermette and Teravainen werent big difference makers in CHI. Vermette scored 65 when he was on CBJ not CHI. Teravainen was not even close to a point per game in CHI. You cant take players career highs and apply that to their time in CHI. Thats like saying OTT is stacked since they have Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, Mikkel Boedker, Craig Anderson, Clarke MacArthur, Dion Phaneuf, and Alex Burrows.


Quoting: moli92
Vermette and Teravainen werent big difference makers in CHI. Vermette scored 65 when he was on CBJ not CHI. Teravainen was not even close to a point per game in CHI. You cant take players career highs and apply that to their time in CHI. Thats like saying OTT is stacked since they have Bobby Ryan, Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, Mikkel Boedker, Craig Anderson, Clarke MacArthur, Dion Phaneuf, and Alex Burrows.


The premise of this thread was players at their peak
May 10, 2020 at 2:43 p.m.
#48
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2016
Posts: 696
Likes: 166
Quoting: mhockey91
You’re out to lunch.

-Prime Kunitz >>> saad. Not even debatable. Kunitz was a first team all star his best year
-Prime Hornqvist > saad. He was putting up 30 goal pace and was a force in front of the net. Saad’s best years weren’t even in Chicago.
-Dupuis at his peak in the 2012 and 2013 seasons was better than Shaw ever was on Chicago. 59 points and 38 points in the lockout season. Shaw’s most productive year on Chicago? 39 points. It’s not even close.
-laads best years were on Winnipeg. Vermette was done by the time he got to Chicago. If we’re talking CAREERS then sure, but when hags and pit played on Pitt during the 15-16 season they performed better than laad or vermette ever did on Chicago. (Laad had a great year of 49 points on Chicago early on)
-sharp vs Guenztal, interesting one, but I think Guenztal will be a better player over his whole career. This one you can argue both sides.
-Hossa and Kane forsure were better than Guenztal and Rust.
-Letang and gonchar were way better than seabrook, if you don’t think so you’re bias.
-Chicago’s D is better than Pitts but once again, guys like Campbell and Byuf were better after Chicago, so it’s a lot closer than you think.


All those players were nothing away from Sid. Dupuis was a 20-30pt player carried by Sid. Hornqvist was a 40-50pt player while being worse than Saad defensively.

This thread is their careers since this is a best on best hence why I menioned Guerin being better keep up. Guentzel has only produced well with Sid and Malkin when he was away.

Letang and Gonchar were offense only dmen that couldnt be trusted defensively while seabrook was a rock defensively. The only thing Letang was better at seabrook was passing to Crosby on the power play. Youre also forgetting Seabrook actually made team Canada's Dcore something Letang is still yet to do I wonder why...
May 10, 2020 at 2:53 p.m.
#49
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2017
Posts: 7,275
Likes: 4,919
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
The premise of this thread was players at their peak


Fair enough I didn't see that originally, but I still don't think it's fair to compare them at their peak when they weren't very good while playing for the teams we are comparing. If you use their peak while playing for CHI or PIT that makes a lot more sense imo.
mhockey91 liked this.
May 10, 2020 at 2:57 p.m.
#50
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2015
Posts: 15,872
Likes: 6,900
Quoting: MadmanFromMadison
All those players were nothing away from Sid. Dupuis was a 20-30pt player carried by Sid. Hornqvist was a 40-50pt player while being worse than Saad defensively.

This thread is their careers since this is a best on best hence why I menioned Guerin being better keep up. Guentzel has only produced well with Sid and Malkin when he was away.

Letang and Gonchar were offense only dmen that couldnt be trusted defensively while seabrook was a rock defensively. The only thing Letang was better at seabrook was passing to Crosby on the power play. Youre also forgetting Seabrook actually made team Canada's Dcore something Letang is still yet to do I wonder why...


Hornqvist scored 30 goals in Nashville LMAO. His career was miles better than saad. If you seriously think saad has been a better player than Hornqvist then this argument is pointless. Dupuis was miles better than Shaw as well. He wasn’t a a 20-30 point player lol.
Letangs best shot at team canada was 2014 but he was injured that season and didn’t make it. Team canada picks guys to fill roles, they don’t take best player available. Hence why Dan hamhuis made it in 2014. Was he better than Letang? Absolutely not. There is absolutely no debate Letang and gonchar both were better players than Seabrook. Seabrook never got a Top 10 Norris nomination. He was never a top 10 D in the NHL. Even Justin Schultz has been lol. Letang has been most of his career. There is no debate between /Gonchar and Seabrook.
Keith>Letang>Gonchar>Seabrook
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll