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Murray is worth AT LEAST a late 1st rounder

Created by: TheGuyInTheChair
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: May 7, 2020
Published: May 7, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
These trades are pretty good comparables IMO

Career Stats: Matt Murray (25) 199 GP 117 W .914 sv% 2 Stanley Cups

2013: Cory Schneider (27) 98 GP 55 W .927 sv% | 2013 1st Rounder #9 (Bo Horvat)

2015: Robin Lehner (24) 86 GP 30 W .914 sv% | 2015 1st Rounder #21 (Colin White)
David Legwand (Cap dump)

Cam Talbot (28) 57 GP 33 W .931 sv% | 2015 2nd Rounder #57 (Jonas Siegenthaler)
2015 7th Rounder #209 (Ziyat Paigin) 2015 3rd Rounder #79 (Sergei Zborovskiy)
2015 7th Rounder #184 (Adam Huska)

2017: Antti Raanta (28) 94 GP 47 W .917 sv% Derek Stepan | 2017 1st Rounder #7 (Lias Andersson)
Anthony Deangelo

2018: Philipp Grubauer (27) 101 GP 43 W .923 sv% | 2018 2nd Rounder #47 (Kody Clark)
Brooks Orpik (Cap dump)
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
25$81,500,000$80,181,625$132,500$850,000$1,318,375
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
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$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$9,500,000$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,050,000$2,050,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,250,000$1,250,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
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$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$700,000$700,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,750,000$3,750,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$874,125$874,125
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$675,000$675,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$850,000$850,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$700,000$700,000
RD
UFA - 2

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May 7, 2020 at 7:52 p.m.
#26
Shesterkin_Next_GOAT
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Quoting: Xqb15
You didn’t really say Stanley Cups are insignificant did you? That’s the whole reason they play. Murray outside of last seasons sweep has won 2 Cups in the last 4 seasons (completed), has a .921 save percentage in the playoffs. But that .899 is awfully nasty and comparing him to dudes that are 35 and 40 isn’t fair either. For what it is worth I wouldn’t trade a 1st for him.


again…

… to determine a player's value
May 7, 2020 at 7:58 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: Jesus
Was that because of the goalies or the team around them


Horrible asset management. Including trading 1sts for goalies
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May 7, 2020 at 7:58 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: pharrow
yeah COL really sucks.


Honestly, He's worth atleast a 1st. Just wait though. Let FA happen and let teams go out there with no goalie as there aren't enough to go around. Then they can realize they need help.


I'm sorry, when did colorado trade a first for a goalie?
May 7, 2020 at 7:59 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Mat
again…

… to determine a player's value

Gotcha. But playoff performance IS something you have to factor especially goalies and in particular a young goalie. Using recent bias 14 months ago Binnington gets you next to nothing a cup run later it’s a different story. But yeah I get what you’re saying, I wouldn’t give a 1st for him either.
May 7, 2020 at 8:03 p.m.
#30
Shesterkin_Next_GOAT
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Quoting: Xqb15
Gotcha. But playoff performance IS something you have to factor especially goalies and in particular a young goalie. Using recent bias 14 months ago Binnington gets you next to nothing a cup run later it’s a different story. But yeah I get what you’re saying, I wouldn’t give a 1st for him either.


yeah for binnington it's different… but Murray is a totaly different issue
May 7, 2020 at 8:58 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I'm sorry, when did colorado trade a first for a goalie?


If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument
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May 7, 2020 at 9:03 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Horrible asset management. Including trading 1sts for goalies


So you think if Buffalo had Colin White they would've made the playoffs? I'd say these trades are mostly even except for the Schneider one but they did get a few decent years out of him.
May 7, 2020 at 9:15 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: Jesus
If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument


So in other words, colorado didnt trade a first for a goalie
May 7, 2020 at 9:19 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
So in other words, colorado didnt trade a first for a goalie


Yeah but don't you think that perhaps if Colorado hadn't helped out the Capitals by buying out Orpik's contract which was $5.5 million in its last year they would've had to give up more assets in order to get Grubauer? Perhaps a higher draft pick or adding a prospect?
May 7, 2020 at 9:32 p.m.
#35
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Quoting: Jesus
Yeah but don't you think that perhaps if Colorado hadn't helped out the Capitals by buying out Orpik's contract which was $5.5 million in its last year they would've had to give up more assets in order to get Grubauer? Perhaps a higher draft pick or adding a prospect?


But they didnt
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May 8, 2020 at 9:37 a.m.
#36
exo2769
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Quoting: mhockey91
Thank you for this much needed post


Come on mhockey. You're a smart guy. Grubauer for a 2nd and a cap dump...this somehow means Murrays' going to get a 1st? Raanta isn't even the major piece in that trade. Stepan is in that trade. Legwand was a $3M cap dump. You know what costs a 1st??? A $6M cap dump named Marleau. I mean you gotta go literally 7 years to find a "comparable" that you hope fits and it was a terrible trade.
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May 8, 2020 at 9:43 a.m.
#37
exo2769
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Edited May 8, 2020 at 9:50 a.m.
Quoting: Jesus
If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument


Quoting: Jesus
So you think if Buffalo had Colin White they would've made the playoffs? I'd say these trades are mostly even except for the Schneider one but they did get a few decent years out of him.


It seems like every PIT fan on here is selectively ignoring information to support their argument. None of these are very good comparisons. There's a $3M cap dump in that trade. TOR just gave up a 1st for a $6M cap dump. That's a huge piece of that trade you're literally ignoring. You need to go back literally 7 years to a real goalie for a 1st rounder...and that was a terrible trade.
May 8, 2020 at 12:09 p.m.
#38
Hockey IQ
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Quoting: exo2769
Come on mhockey. You're a smart guy. Grubauer for a 2nd and a cap dump...this somehow means Murrays' going to get a 1st? Raanta isn't even the major piece in that trade. Stepan is in that trade. Legwand was a $3M cap dump. You know what costs a 1st??? A $6M cap dump named Marleau. I mean you gotta go literally 7 years to find a "comparable" that you hope fits and it was a terrible trade.


I agree with @mhockey91 . Murray's value is at least a late first. That is a correct statement. Will he get a late first in a trade? probably not.

The comparative value demonstrated--Murray=(theoretical package traded for Murray)=/>(a late 1st round pick).

Pit really has no need for a late first. They would just trade it away. Pit has other needs that could theoretically be met with a Murray/jarry trade--which I would prefer not to do until next offseason so Pit has a bigger sample size to evaluate. Murray is worth a late first, but a theoretical Murray trade this offseason would not include a first coming back to PIT--and it shouldn't. The pens are in win-now mode, and should be till Geno/Sid/Tanger hang up the skates.
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May 8, 2020 at 1:00 p.m.
#39
exo2769
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Edited May 8, 2020 at 1:43 p.m.
Quoting: Pens3lieve
I agree with @mhockey91 . Murray's value is at least a late first. That is a correct statement. Will he get a late first in a trade? probably not.

The comparative value demonstrated--Murray=(theoretical package traded for Murray)=/>(a late 1st round pick).

Pit really has no need for a late first. They would just trade it away. Pit has other needs that could theoretically be met with a Murray/jarry trade--which I would prefer not to do until next offseason so Pit has a bigger sample size to evaluate. Murray is worth a late first, but a theoretical Murray trade this offseason would not include a first coming back to PIT--and it shouldn't. The pens are in win-now mode, and should be till Geno/Sid/Tanger hang up the skates.


I agree with you that Murray has value. Sincerely I do believe that. It drove me bananas to see Lehner not get a 1st. I did and do think that's what he should have got. He didn't though. The list at the top of this post are not good comps though. Some of these aren't even close. Stepan was AZ's #1 center for 2 and a half years. The #1C role is the most highly valued position in all of hockey. He's the centerpiece of that trade. Not Raanta...a 1 year starter and 2 year backup.

I think @keep_ups12 made a great point in another post. Maximize his value with OTT. Then use those picks to either A.) shed cap or B.) acquire a plyers with the other team retaining.
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May 8, 2020 at 2:36 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: exo2769
Come on mhockey. You're a smart guy. Grubauer for a 2nd and a cap dump...this somehow means Murrays' going to get a 1st? Raanta isn't even the major piece in that trade. Stepan is in that trade. Legwand was a $3M cap dump. You know what costs a 1st??? A $6M cap dump named Marleau. I mean you gotta go literally 7 years to find a "comparable" that you hope fits and it was a terrible trade.


None of the goalies that have been traded have been as proven as Murray though. 2 cups seriously boosts his value. GMs will remember his clutch playoff performances. I think Lenher should’ve got a first as well at deadline, but like you said the goalie market was weak. I don’t know why Carolina went all in for defensemen when their biggest need is a goalie. I think what will help Murray is his perceived value is higher due to his resume. Like @Pens3lieve said... even if Murray is worth a late first, he probably won’t bring that in as a return. Pens have other needs to address. I’m still on the trade Jarry bandwagon. Dude played 20 good games. Why trade low on Murray when you can trade high on Jarry?
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