This AGM is based around an offseason Reinhart trade. I'm curious to hear thoughts about the return for each team in this trade.
Below is an outline of the moves made, including a look ahead to 2021 as well.
********** 2020 OFFSEASON **************
UFA out: Namestnikov, Nieto, Wilson, Barberio
Resign: Burakovsky, Nichuskin, Zadorov
Promote: Byram, Timmins, Kaut
Trade Graves/Compher/Bowers/1st for Reinhart
I considered resigning Namestnikov instead of Jost but I think Jost is a better fit at C. Jost at $2m also allows some more flexibility capwise than Namestnikov (~$3.75m). But I could easily have gone with Namestnikov here, and traded Jost for picks.
Byram would probably need some sheltering early on so we would probably start the season with Cole on the bottom pairing instead of Timmins, but then once Byram settles we call Timmins up and then the D falls into place naturally.
********** 2021 OFFSEASON **************
Expansion Draft Protection (7+3+1):
- Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Reinhart, Burakovsky, Jost
- Makar, Girard, Zadorov (Johnson waives NMC)
- Francouz
Exposed: Donskoi, Nichuskin, Johnson, Grubauer (he's an UFA and declines to sign with Seattle and resigns with us instead).
Raises for Makar (+$7m), Landeskog (+$2m) and Grubauer (+$1m) total about $10m, and are paid by:
- Current capspace ~$3m.
- Donskoi ($3.9m) selected by Seattle and replaced by Newhook on ELC (saving $3m).
- Cole ($4.25m) replaced by $1m 7D (saves $3m)
- Calvert ($2.85m) and Bellemare ($1.8m) leave in UFA in 2021, replaced by cheaper 4th liners (saves ~$1.5m).
- If needed we could also trade Zadorov or Johnson and replace them with cheaper D via trade/free agency.
Reinhart has the potential to be a regular 60+ point forward and is in his prime years so it would be a good fit.
Sure it would sting a little to give up some of those pieces, but realistically we can easily absorb their loss:
- Graves is top 4 quality but is going to be on the 3rd pairing D for us once Byram settles;
- Compher is easily replaceable (see Namestnikov trade or Donskoi signing) and is likely an Expansion Draft casualty regardless;
- Bowers is an ideal 3C for us given his age and speed, but with Newhook and Jost/Kamenev/Bellemare we have several options for bottom 6 C's going forward.
- #28 overall might get us a good player in 2-3 years, but should certainly be on the table if we can get a cost-controlled young top 6 forward.
From Buffalo's perspective it's a little bit on the "quantity over quality" side, but it would nonetheless fill some needs for them:
- a young top 4 LHD (a clear need for Buffalo as they lack LHD's but have several RHD's);
- a good middle 6 C/RW;
- a near-NHL-ready 3C prospect (former 1st round pick);
- a 1st in a deep draft, where they can for example pick Perreault/Guhle/Wallinder/Lappiere/O'Rourke/Peterka/Jarvis/etc.
Buffalo should also be able to get a top 6 forward prospect at #7 to replace Reinhart long-term (eg. Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond/Holtz).
Its quantity over quality but doesn't fit their needs. They already have a bunch of depth forwards and a late first
and their not trading Reinhart
Technically they don't already have a bunch of depth forwards beyond this season since most of their depth forwards are UFA's this summer, including Simmonds; Frolik; Vesey; Girgensons; and Larsson. Young and cost-controlled players like Compher and Bowers would clearly be very useful to them.
Beyond Dahlin they are also really thin at LHD and Graves would be a perfect fit on the 2nd pairing, especially considering that he will likely have a reasonable next contract.
As for a 1st, they are a rebuilding team and would certainly welcome having another 1st in this deep draft. With another 1st at 28th overall to go along with #7 and #38 they could really set themselves up well for the future - kinda like what Detroit did 2 years ago with Zadina/Veleno/Berggren/McIsaac.
Technically they don't already have a bunch of depth forwards beyond this season since most of their depth forwards are UFA's this summer, including Simmonds; Frolik; Vesey; Girgensons; and Larsson. Young and cost-controlled players like Compher and Bowers would clearly be very useful to them.
Beyond Dahlin they are also really thin at LHD and Graves would be a perfect fit on the 2nd pairing, especially considering that he will likely have a reasonable next contract.
As for a 1st, they are a rebuilding team and would certainly welcome having another 1st in this deep draft. With another 1st at 28th overall to go along with #7 and #38 they could really set themselves up well for the future - kinda like what Detroit did 2 years ago with Zadina/Veleno/Berggren/McIsaac.
Sabres LHD: Dahlin, McCabe, Pilut, Mattias Samuelsson (32nd overall 2018), Ryan Johnson (31st overall 2019)
Rather sign a depth UFA option or go big vs Graves.
Compher is the same age as Reinhart and is a 3rd liner at best. bowers has been underwhelming since being drafted, late first is meh.
underwhelming package for a 24 year old first line RW
also, we are not rebuilding, we just suck and cant escape our 7 year rebuild
Sabres LHD: Dahlin, McCabe, Pilut, Mattias Samuelsson (32nd overall 2018), Ryan Johnson (31st overall 2019)
Rather sign a depth UFA option or go big vs Graves.
Compher is the same age as Reinhart and is a 3rd liner at best. bowers has been underwhelming since being drafted, late first is meh.
underwhelming package for a 24 year old first line RW
also, we are not rebuilding, we just suck and cant escape our 7 year rebuild
It's fairly understandable that you wouldn't want to trade Reinhart for pieces, even if the pieces are good.
Aren't Samuelson and Johnson like 2-3 years away? Are McCabe and Pilut really top 4 D's?
Bowers hasn't been underwhelming. If you just look at his scoresheet then maybe you make that conclusion, but he was never a 1st round pick for his scoring. Rather, he's a really solid 3C type of forward, reads the game very well defensively, and is really fast. He had a good AHL season and is looking likely to be a good 3C once he makes the NHL. He's perfectly in line with expectations when he was drafted. He could join the NHL as soon as next season, but Avs have no reason to rush him, but will instead let him slow-cook in the AHL one more year.
The best thing for Buffalo to do is to draw a line in the sand and make some decisions on players, rather than half-arse-ing things continuously. Ristolainen is a perfect example of that. Should have traded him and moved on when he asked for a trade. The Skinner signing was terrible. It's feasible that Botterill could overpay on Reinhart too.
It's fairly understandable that you wouldn't want to trade Reinhart for pieces, even if the pieces are good.
Aren't Samuelson and Johnson like 2-3 years away? Are McCabe and Pilut really top 4 D's?
Bowers hasn't been underwhelming. If you just look at his scoresheet then maybe you make that conclusion, but he was never a 1st round pick for his scoring. Rather, he's a really solid 3C type of forward, reads the game very well defensively, and is really fast. He had a good AHL season and is looking likely to be a good 3C once he makes the NHL. He's perfectly in line with expectations when he was drafted. He could join the NHL as soon as next season, but Avs have no reason to rush him, but will instead let him slow-cook in the AHL one more year.
The best thing for Buffalo to do is to draw a line in the sand and make some decisions on players, rather than half-arse-ing things continuously. Ristolainen is a perfect example of that. Should have traded him and moved on when he asked for a trade. The Skinner signing was terrible. It's feasible that Botterill could overpay on Reinhart too.
Yes Ristolainen needs to go. Skinner is overpaid by about a million per season, but thats what happens with UFAs
Again, I'll make a different trade for a LHD rather than give up Reinhart and now you are telling me both forwards are bottom 6 players.
Yes Ristolainen needs to go. Skinner is overpaid by about a million per season, but thats what happens with UFAs
Again, I'll make a different trade for a LHD rather than give up Reinhart and now you are telling me both forwards are bottom 6 players.
Well yeah, Compher is a 3rd liner on Colorado because we have a strong team, but he's easily passable as a 2nd line wing as well. He's always scored at a 0.5ppg rate which makes him a 2nd liner on most teams. He's an ok 2nd liner but a great 3rd liner. And he can also play well on both the PP and PK.
Well yeah, Compher is a 3rd liner on Colorado because we have a strong team, but he's easily passable as a 2nd line wing as well. He's always scored at a 0.5ppg rate which makes him a 2nd liner on most teams. He's an ok 2nd liner but a great 3rd liner. And he can also play well on both the PP and PK.
Sabres dont lack LHD in any capacity. Graves and Bowers are also not enough to close the gap any way. Swap them out for something decent up front, around the same value as Compher, then your much closer
In 2018/19 he had 32 points in 66 games (just 1 point shy of exactly 0.5ppg), and this season he has 31 points in 67 games (just 2.5 points shy of 0.5ppg).
He has 9 points in 18 playoff games (exactly 0.5ppg).
Needless to say I think it's fair to say that he's a 0.5ppg player, unless one wants to be extremely pedantic.
It's fairly understandable that you wouldn't want to trade Reinhart for pieces, even if the pieces are good.
Aren't Samuelson and Johnson like 2-3 years away? Are McCabe and Pilut really top 4 D's?
Bowers hasn't been underwhelming. If you just look at his scoresheet then maybe you make that conclusion, but he was never a 1st round pick for his scoring. Rather, he's a really solid 3C type of forward, reads the game very well defensively, and is really fast. He had a good AHL season and is looking likely to be a good 3C once he makes the NHL. He's perfectly in line with expectations when he was drafted. He could join the NHL as soon as next season, but Avs have no reason to rush him, but will instead let him slow-cook in the AHL one more year.
The best thing for Buffalo to do is to draw a line in the sand and make some decisions on players, rather than half-arse-ing things continuously. Ristolainen is a perfect example of that. Should have traded him and moved on when he asked for a trade. The Skinner signing was terrible. It's feasible that Botterill could overpay on Reinhart too.
Dahlin and McCabe are top 4 Dmen, Pilut is fine as a bottom pair, they can also pick up almost anyone in free agency that is as good as Graves. Sabres have plenty of 3Cs especially if they're adding Compher
Dahlin and McCabe are top 4 Dmen, Pilut is fine as a bottom pair, they can also pick up almost anyone in free agency that is as good as Graves. Sabres have plenty of 3Cs especially if they're adding Compher
Sure, you can probably sign someone, but you're going to have to overpay to get them to come to Buffalo. And there actually aren't that many good top 4 LHD's on the market to begin with.
That could be one of the worst trades I have ever seen. Not even close to Sam Value. A late first doesn’t do ****
That's rubbish. A young top 4 LHD; young middle 6 C; NHL-ready 3C prospect; and a 1st (albeit a late one) isn't bad value for a player like Reinhart who doesn't drive his own line and would probably struggle to hit 60+ points away from Eichel. You can say that you don't want to do a "quantity for 1 player" trade which is fine and I respect that, but to say that it's the wrost trade you've ever seen is just hyperbole.
Sure, you can probably sign someone, but you're going to have to overpay to get them to come to Buffalo. And there actually aren't that many good top 4 LHD's on the market to begin with.
Well they arent signing a top 4 d man only a bottom pair or 7th dman
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