Forums/Armchair-GM

Playoff lines for the 12 seed

Created by: bluedemon5
Initial Creation Date: May 14, 2020
Published: May 18 at 9:19 pm
Team: 2019-20 Chicago Blackhawks
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Robin Lehner: $2,500,000 (50%)
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2020
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CGY
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2021
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MTL
2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$69,745,127$0$7,797,500$11,754,873
Left WingCenterRight Wing
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
$925,000
LW
RFA - 1
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Caggiula, Drake
$1,500,000
LW, C, RW
RFA - 1
CHI
Nylander, Alexander
$863,333
RW, LW
RFA - 2
CHI
Strome, Dylan
$863,333
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Kane, Patrick
$10,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
$778,333
LW, RW
RFA - 1
CHI
Dach, Kirby
$925,000
C
RFA - 3
CHI
Saad, Brandon
$6,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
CHI
Smith, Zack
$3,250,000
LW, C
NTC
UFA - 2
CHI
Kämpf, David
$1,000,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
CHI
Carpenter, Ryan
$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
CHI
Keith, Duncan
$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
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Murphy, Connor
$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 3
CHI
Crawford, Corey
$6,000,000
G
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
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De Haan, Calvin
$4,550,000
LD
UFA - 3
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Boqvist, Adam
$894,167
RD
RFA - 3
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Subban, Malcolm
$850,000
G
RFA - 1
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Määttä, Olli
$4,083,333
LD
UFA - 3
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Koekkoek, Slater
$925,000
LD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
CHI
Carlsson, Lucas
$792,500
D
RFA - 2
CHI
Seabrook, Brent
$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 5
CHI
Hagel, Brandon
$880,833
LW
RFA - 2
CHI
Shaw, Andrew
$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
CHI
Highmore, Matthew
$775,833
C
RFA - 1

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May 18 at 9:39
#1
Hawks Fan
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 674
Likes: 194
Hawks gonna win the Stanley Cup. Dach is gonna be Conn Smythe winner.
DarthKane liked this.
May 18 at 9:49
#2
DarthKane
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 298
Likes: 38
Quoting: Jco5ta5
Hawks gonna win the Stanley Cup. Dach is gonna be Conn Smythe winner.


I like the cut of your jib!
Jco5ta5 liked this.
May 18 at 10:24
#3
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Can we please keep cat, strome, and Kane together? JC is seriously an idiot since he separated that line. Kane gets the absolute best out of both cat and strome. No one else on the team is capable of Kane’s creativity and ability to involve teammates.
May 18 at 10:44
#4
KFTW
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11,571
Likes: 3,325
I think they can call up AHL guys no?

Kubalik-Toews-Nylander
Debrincat-Strome-Kane
Smith-Dach-Saad
Kurashev-Kampf-Carpenter
SlickWilly liked this.
May 18 at 10:58
#5
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 546
Quoting: csick
I think they can call up AHL guys no?

Kubalik-Toews-Nylander
Debrincat-Strome-Kane
Smith-Dach-Saad
Kurashev-Kampf-Carpenter


I hope they call up Kurashev and give Hagel some minutes, but Nylander-Strome-Kane was a line that was doing well right before the season cut out so Id probably go
Kubalik-Toews-Saad
Nylander-Strome-Kane
Dcat-Dach-Kurashev
Caggiula-Kampf-Hagel
But I think Hagel and Kurashev could be interchanged with Smith and Carpenter if they are getting destroyed
csick liked this.
May 19 at 12:33
#6
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
Can we please keep cat, strome, and Kane together? JC is seriously an idiot since he separated that line. Kane gets the absolute best out of both cat and strome. No one else on the team is capable of Kane’s creativity and ability to involve teammates.


Because as much as they scored they got scored on more; absolute defensive nightmare that line was.
May 19 at 12:35
#7
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: csick
I think they can call up AHL guys no?

Kubalik-Toews-Nylander
Debrincat-Strome-Kane
Smith-Dach-Saad
Kurashev-Kampf-Carpenter


Ugh, first line should be Kubalik, Toews, and Saad...that was the best line this season and that means playing 200ft of hockey not 100ft which is why the Cat - Strome - Kane line was a not successful...they scored a lot but got scored on more.
May 19 at 12:41
#8
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
Because as much as they scored they got scored on more; absolute defensive nightmare that line was.


But that’s why you have the other three lines. Each of the other three lines can be 200 footers. However, you need a line like cat-strome-Kane that can be full offense when other lines can’t be. That line was sick a year ago. I understand they give up goals, but give them all the ozone starts then.
May 19 at 12:49
#9
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Edited May 19 at 12:58
Quoting: HatterTParty
But that’s why you have the other three lines. Each of the other three lines can be 200 footers. However, you need a line like cat-strome-Kane that can be full offense when other lines can’t be. That line was sick a year ago. I understand they give up goals, but give them all the ozone starts then.


You can't win when that line puts up 2 goals per game but gets scored on 3 goals per game. Every line has to have at least one two way guy. Kane - Strome and Cat are not good enough to forgo offense. That might work with Matthews, Marner but even then they try to put a 3rd guy on the line that plays some defense.

Here's the stats on that line;
1.59 goals for per game
2.76 goals against per game

In other words....doesn't work.
May 19 at 1:02
#10
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
You can't win when that line puts up 2 goals per game but gets scored on 3 goals per game. Every line has to have at least one two way guy. Kane - Strome and Cat are not good enough to forgo offense. That might work with Matthews, Marner but even then they try to put a 3rd guy on the line that plays some defense.


I was gonna say, before you put the Matthews thing in, tons of teams go full offensive with certain lines. If cat-strome-Kane were allowed to run and gun, I’ll trust them. Especially if they can work their skill together, go for it.
May 19 at 1:08
#11
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Edited May 19 at 1:14
Quoting: HatterTParty
I was gonna say, before you put the Matthews thing in, tons of teams go full offensive with certain lines. If cat-strome-Kane were allowed to run and gun, I’ll trust them. Especially if they can work their skill together, go for it.


You must have missed my edit above...

Here's the stats on that line;
1.59 goals for per game
2.76 goals against per game

In other words....doesn't work. You also aren't dealing with speed demons so run and gun doesn't work; Kane and Cat are above average and Strome below average speed wise. Kane was faster in his day but has slowed down. Cat was never a speed demon but faster then average.

Compared to Matthews Hyman and Marner
3.06 goals for per game
2.42 goals against per game

Both lines don't play in front of great defenses but would argue the Hawks had a better defense in the front two pairings this season especially after the Leaf players injuries.
May 19 at 1:15
#12
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
You must have missed my edit above...

Here's the stats on that line;
1.59 goals for per game
2.76 goals against per game

In other words....doesn't work. You also aren't dealing with speed demons so run and gun doesn't work; Kane and Cat are above average and Strome below average speed wise. Kane was faster in his day but has slowed down. Cat was never a speed demon but faster then average.

Compared to Matthews Hyman and Marner
3.06 goals for per game
2.42 goals against per game


I get what you’re saying, I do, and the stats don’t lie. Here’s the problem: save for the top line, there isn’t a single line combination that has fit well together and consistently performed. Cat-strome-Kane did, but for the sake of stats, I’ll just say screw it. It still doesn’t change the fact that cat and strome are lost without Kane. They’ve honestly shown that all year. You said it yourself, chemistry is everything.
May 19 at 1:19
#13
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
I get what you’re saying, I do, and the stats don’t lie. Here’s the problem: save for the top line, there isn’t a single line combination that has fit well together and consistently performed. Cat-strome-Kane did, but for the sake of stats, I’ll just say screw it. It still doesn’t change the fact that cat and strome are lost without Kane. They’ve honestly shown that all year. You said it yourself, chemistry is everything.


But Kane makes most players look good so thus begs the question, how good is Strome?

Cat - Strome - Shaw looked good IMO also.

I think you have to entertain the team moving Cat and Strome to the 3rd line and Dach and Kane on the 2nd. Take your pick on the wingers that can fill the void. I would love to see a line of Cat - Strome and Kapannen...that would be a good line. Then let's say we get luck and draft Holtz, Holtz - Dach - Kane?
May 19 at 2:00
#14
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
But Kane makes most players look good so thus begs the question, how good is Strome?

Cat - Strome - Shaw looked good IMO also.

I think you have to entertain the team moving Cat and Strome to the 3rd line and Dach and Kane on the 2nd. Take your pick on the wingers that can fill the void. I would love to see a line of Cat - Strome and Kapannen...that would be a good line. Then let's say we get luck and draft Holtz, Holtz - Dach - Kane?


I still just don’t trust golden boy offensively. You put cat and strome on the third line, that’s another line of poor defense. Pure and simple. They’re a liability in their own zone. However, they do work best together. Again, chemistry yes? If you know you want to keep them together and they’re always gonna be a liability, why not keep Kane with them? Kapanen isn’t gonna make them better defensively.

As for holtz, he should stay in Sweden another year. Once here, depending on what the team looks like, sure, put with our franchise savior. Holtz can shoot, that’s for sure.
May 19 at 2:14
#15
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
I still just don’t trust golden boy offensively. You put cat and strome on the third line, that’s another line of poor defense. Pure and simple. They’re a liability in their own zone. However, they do work best together. Again, chemistry yes? If you know you want to keep them together and they’re always gonna be a liability, why not keep Kane with them? Kapanen isn’t gonna make them better defensively.

As for holtz, he should stay in Sweden another year. Once here, depending on what the team looks like, sure, put with our franchise savior. Holtz can shoot, that’s for sure.


Not if you have Cat- Strome and Kap who is pretty good defensively and furthermore, playing against the other teams 3rd liners they won't be as exposed. Dude, Kap is pretty decent defensively, it's not even remotely close to suggest Kane and Kap are similar defensively. Kap plays the PK for one.

Holtz - Dach - Kane
Cat - Strome - Kap

Way more balanced and collectively will outscore then get scored on versus the dreadful Cat - Strome - Kane line.

Holtz could use another year in the SHL and yes, playing him with Dach would make sense...Holtz can shoot, Kane is an elite passer and Dach is doing a fine job in front of the net like Toews did for Sharpy in past years.
May 19 at 2:35
#16
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
Not if you have Cat- Strome and Kap who is pretty good defensively and furthermore, playing against the other teams 3rd liners they won't be as exposed. Dude, Kap is pretty decent defensively, it's not even remotely close to suggest Kane and Kap are similar defensively. Kap plays the PK for one.

Holtz - Dach - Kane
Cat - Strome - Kap

Way more balanced and collectively will outscore then get scored on versus the dreadful Cat - Strome - Kane line.

Holtz could use another year in the SHL and yes, playing him with Dach would make sense...Holtz can shoot, Kane is an elite passer and Dach is doing a fine job in front of the net like Toews did for Sharpy in past years.


Believe me, I’m not suggesting Kap and Kane are comparable defensively. Kap is a good penalty killer for sure, but he alone does not compensate for cat and strome defensively.

Holtz is still one of the top 2-3 guys I want in the draft. Him, Raymond, or even Rossi are my favorites where were positioned in the draft. He’d be a great goal scorer to add to the core. If we got Raymond, not to be disrespectful to the rest of the team, he would instantly be the second best playmaker on the team behind Kane. Rossi, well, you know we got that debate going.
May 19 at 11:15
#17
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
Believe me, I’m not suggesting Kap and Kane are comparable defensively. Kap is a good penalty killer for sure, but he alone does not compensate for cat and strome defensively.

Holtz is still one of the top 2-3 guys I want in the draft. Him, Raymond, or even Rossi are my favorites where were positioned in the draft. He’d be a great goal scorer to add to the core. If we got Raymond, not to be disrespectful to the rest of the team, he would instantly be the second best playmaker on the team behind Kane. Rossi, well, you know we got that debate going.


Well he does a lot better then Kane defensively and I think Kap's speed would open up that line and allow Cat more room.

Raymond would be incredible. I hope the lottery still happens as normally would. If the Hawks jumped up to the #3 pick, I think they have a tough choice between Raymond and Stutzle given that AF and Byfield go 1 and 2.
May 19 at 1:32
#18
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
Well he does a lot better then Kane defensively and I think Kap's speed would open up that line and allow Cat more room.

Raymond would be incredible. I hope the lottery still happens as normally would. If the Hawks jumped up to the #3 pick, I think they have a tough choice between Raymond and Stutzle given that AF and Byfield go 1 and 2.


If the lottery happens and the hawks get a top 3 pick again this year, I will probably lose my **** because someone out there genuinely wants bowman employed. I’m sick of not understanding what direction this team is going.

One thing I’ve been doing a really great job lately of not thinking about is the fact that even if our messiah is better (at least for now) than Hughes and kakko, that’s still not guaranteed with byram, turcotte, and so on. Even more importantly, the young messiah still needs to play in the central division until he either gets traded or retires. As it stands, the blues, avs, and stars are running rough shot. Then it’ll be the Avs almost exclusively. Beyond that (maybe 8-10 years from now), who knows. It’s nice everyone loves this kid in Chicago so far, but he ain’t gonna win ya the division, let alone the cup. However, on the off chance we get number 3, getting a number 1C like stutzle would definitely trend in the right direction. Still would drive me nuts cuz bowman would still be around and JC would keep the team in mediocrity.
May 19 at 2:05
#19
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
If the lottery happens and the hawks get a top 3 pick again this year, I will probably lose my **** because someone out there genuinely wants bowman employed. I’m sick of not understanding what direction this team is going.

One thing I’ve been doing a really great job lately of not thinking about is the fact that even if our messiah is better (at least for now) than Hughes and kakko, that’s still not guaranteed with byram, turcotte, and so on. Even more importantly, the young messiah still needs to play in the central division until he either gets traded or retires. As it stands, the blues, avs, and stars are running rough shot. Then it’ll be the Avs almost exclusively. Beyond that (maybe 8-10 years from now), who knows. It’s nice everyone loves this kid in Chicago so far, but he ain’t gonna win ya the division, let alone the cup. However, on the off chance we get number 3, getting a number 1C like stutzle would definitely trend in the right direction. Still would drive me nuts cuz bowman would still be around and JC would keep the team in mediocrity.


As if Turcotte is going to win the division or the cup. Come on dude, not even Kane can win us a cup...it took Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabs, Jammer, etc. Some of the statements you spit out from frustration or anger are so over the top buddy.

It takes a strong core to win a cup and while I think Dach has the upside to be a Toews, none of the other players are reminiscent of Hossa, Kane, or Keith although maybe can argue Boqvist will be close to Keith one day. That is the problem with this team, we don't have the depth of talent in our young guys (Buf, Keith, Seabs, Kane, Toews, Jammer, Shaw, etc.) that we did back in 2009 to add a world class vet (Hossa) and a very solid young A- player (Sharp) to win a cup. It's starts with the core young guys and Mitchell, Boqvist, Dach, Cat, Strome, Kubalik just don't stack up to those guys talent wise as the guys back then.

Now if we get a top 3 pick in the lottery this year, that really changes a lot IMO. Byfield, Stutzle and AF are unreal players and throw in Raymond. That top 4 is on another level in a very good draft year versus the next 6 players or so. Stutzle is more often then not projected as a LW at the NHL level. I'm all aboard if the #3 pick comes in it should be Stutzle, but Raymond looks darn good in his own right.
May 19 at 2:44
#20
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 378
Quoting: ChiHawk
As if Turcotte is going to win the division or the cup. Come on dude, not even Kane can win us a cup...it took Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabs, Jammer, etc. Some of the statements you spit out from frustration or anger are so over the top buddy.

It takes a strong core to win a cup and while I think Dach has the upside to be a Toews, none of the other players are reminiscent of Hossa, Kane, or Keith although maybe can argue Boqvist will be close to Keith one day. That is the problem with this team, we don't have the depth of talent in our young guys (Buf, Keith, Seabs, Kane, Toews, Jammer, Shaw, etc.) that we did back in 2009 to add a world class vet (Hossa) and a very solid young A- player (Sharp) to win a cup. It's starts with the core young guys and Mitchell, Boqvist, Dach, Cat, Strome, Kubalik just don't stack up to those guys talent wise as the guys back then.

Now if we get a top 3 pick in the lottery this year, that really changes a lot IMO. Byfield, Stutzle and AF are unreal players and throw in Raymond. That top 4 is on another level in a very good draft year versus the next 6 players or so. Stutzle is more often then not projected as a LW at the NHL level. I'm all aboard if the #3 pick comes in it should be Stutzle, but Raymond looks darn good in his own right.


Believe me, I’m not saying turcotte wins a cup either. No way. I’m just talking individual performance when I brought him up.

As for the young core, I Agree it’s more unspectacular than previous years. Mitchell projects more like Duncan to me. With boqvist (sorry to bring this up), I just want a coach who will actually use him the right way. He’s never gonna be a defensive stand out, he just won’t. So use him in a positive way that promotes his offensive prowess. As for the rest of the core, as you said, it doesn’t seem to match the level 2009 had. Even if we did, coaching is a huge part of the process and JC is not an NHL coach.

Getting top 3 would obviously change that, but the odds of lightning striking two years straight is nil. I could also see the NHL scraping the lottery system this year. I’ve heard rumors on it anyway.
ChiHawk liked this.
May 19 at 6:42
#21
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,979
Likes: 2,405
Quoting: HatterTParty
Believe me, I’m not saying turcotte wins a cup either. No way. I’m just talking individual performance when I brought him up.

As for the young core, I Agree it’s more unspectacular than previous years. Mitchell projects more like Duncan to me. With boqvist (sorry to bring this up), I just want a coach who will actually use him the right way. He’s never gonna be a defensive stand out, he just won’t. So use him in a positive way that promotes his offensive prowess. As for the rest of the core, as you said, it doesn’t seem to match the level 2009 had. Even if we did, coaching is a huge part of the process and JC is not an NHL coach.

Getting top 3 would obviously change that, but the odds of lightning striking two years straight is nil. I could also see the NHL scraping the lottery system this year. I’ve heard rumors on it anyway.



Odds are the same as they were last year, the odds reset with each lottery so could happen as it did last year. Look at the years they drafted Kane and Toews. I can't see them totally scrapping it although I could see them modifying it. For example, if they go with a 24 team playoff, then those teams wouldn't qualify for the lottery and will pick based on playoff performance and regular season which would suck for the Hawks. Of course the NHL wants revenue so to have NYR, Hawks, MTL which may mean out of the lottery.
 
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