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Kickstart the Re-build Baby

Created by: Random2152
Team: 2020-21 San Jose Sharks
Initial Creation Date: May 19, 2020
Published: May 19, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Okay there is a lot to unpack here so bear with me.

The Karlsson trade is a revision of my earlier proposal. I worry that it might be too steep for PIT now but we will see. In general I would not be afraid of retaining money if I were the Sharks as the guys I am looking at moving (anyone making more than $6M) cost over half the cap for a LONG time. Retaining, even a lot to move them could help immensely during the re-build as much as it may hurt. You get a 1st and PoJo coming back as well as two guys to fill holes in the lineup until prospects are ready.

The MTL trade is another refinement of an idea I had earlier. I actually think you can get away with less retention on Vlasic (maybe only $1M) but I am structuring this closer to a worst case scenario cap wise to prove that these moves make sense no matter what. You lose Couture (and more importantly his contract) and are able to get a much younger Domi back to be apart of your new, younger core.

The Vancouver trade is moving another long contract for a shorter one and a decent player in return before that one goes bad. Helps Vancouver be better in the now and lets be real, Benning isn't good at cap management. Pearson is a decent forward and you get another cap dump plug to fill in until the prospects are ready.

I haven't yet figured out what I want to do about Burns. You only have 1 ret slot left and retaining on Burns would leave you with no flexibility for 5 years -so that is out of the question. I feel like Dallas might be a realistic option but I haven't been able to conjure up a trade that makes sense to me (any ideas would be appreciated).

Contract wise I went worst case scenario for the AAV'S.
Murray hasn't been good for awhile now but he is only 25 and you hope that he rebounds to form. I would not give him this contract but I keep seeing analyists say he will be looking for a raise so I went worst case and gave him a 5@5. A better and more realistic deal might be 2@4.

I believe in Labanc and he did the team a solid this year by taking a discount so we repay him with an 8 year contract that he hopefully lives up to.

Domi I genuinely have no idea what he will make, so I gave him a mid term guesstimate.

I signed TVR to help solidify this tanking and young D-core so that the kids can be sheltered a bit.



Obviously the idea here is to re-build the team. I know I traded fan favourites and good players too, but in order to move on you will need to lose the long term contracts, otherwise you have a high chance of being stuck in limbo for the majority of the decade. As someone who's team has done that - it isn't fun in the slightest.

Feedback would be nice but don't be a dick. I know this is beyond unliekly to happen but I really do think this team would be better set up to win in the future than your current squad.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$6,000,000
5$6,000,000
5$5,000,000
2$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$2,500,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Player, Guy
1$800,000
Player, Guy
1$800,000
Trades
1.
SJS
MTL
2.
SJS
  1. Pearson, Tanner
  2. Sutter, Brandon
  3. 2021 2nd round pick (VAN)
3.
PIT
  1. Karlsson, Erik ($2,500,000 retained)
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (SJS)
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the COL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the WSH
2021
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
2022
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the SJS
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$73,299,999$0$597,500$8,200,001
Left WingCentreRight Wing
$6,000,000$6,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,625,000$5,625,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$3,750,000$3,750,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,050,000$2,050,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$700,000$700,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$768,333$768,333 (Performance Bonus$65,000$65K)
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$763,333$763,333 (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
C, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$4,375,000$4,375,000
RW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$2,250,000$2,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,280,000$5,280,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
LD
UFA - 2
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$5,750,000$5,750,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$750,000$750,000
LD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Player, Guy
$800,000$800,000
Player, Guy
$800,000$800,000

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May 19, 2020 at 10:28 p.m.
#1
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Haven’t seen many if any Sharks posts resigning, Melker. Why is that? What do you think he’d sign for?
May 19, 2020 at 10:30 p.m.
#2
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Couple things;
- Sure Vlasic will waive to MTL but I don't think Couture will. Buffalo is probably the only team with cap space he will waive to (he's a huge Bills fan).
- That Kane trade is awful, he is still a very good player and well worth a 1st
- Karlsson won't be traded and he won't waive, no UFA will want to sign a deal with SJ again if they moved him right after that extension. Also, he is still a very good defenseman if he can stay healthy.
May 19, 2020 at 10:31 p.m.
#3
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MTL wouldn’t trade Domi for Couture
MTL wouldn’t trade Alzner vs Vlasic 2.5M retained

So bad trade for MTL
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May 19, 2020 at 10:36 p.m.
#4
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Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: GMs
MTL wouldn’t trade Domi for Couture
MTL wouldn’t trade Alzner vs Vlasic 2.5M retained

So bad trade for MTL


Habs fans overvalue their players more than any other fanbase and quite frankly your GM isn't smart. This is absolutely something you guys would do if you wanted to win now.
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May 19, 2020 at 10:38 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Random2152
Habs fans overvalue their players more than any other fanbase and quite frankly your GM isn't smart. This is absolutely something you guys would do if you wanted to win now.


Our GM isn't smart? Don't even start this argument. Bergevin > Dubas
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May 19, 2020 at 10:41 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: BluesBandit
Haven’t seen many if any Sharks posts resigning, Melker. Why is that? What do you think he’d sign for?


No idea. Not a Sharks fan lol.

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Couple things;
- Sure Vlasic will waive to MTL but I don't think Couture will. Buffalo is probably the only team with cap space he will waive to (he's a huge Bills fan).
- That Kane trade is awful, he is still a very good player and well worth a 1st
- Karlsson won't be traded and he won't waive, no UFA will want to sign a deal with SJ again if they moved him right after that extension. Also, he is still a very good defenseman if he can stay healthy.


If Karlsson was faced with being on a ****ty rebuilding team vs playing with Sid and the Pens you seriously think he wouldn't want to go? I also don't think that this would affect UFA's signing here. Mistakes get corrected all the time and moving Karlsson to the Pens of all teams is doing well by him.

The hope is that Couture waives. I think being with Vlasic would help that (plus the Habs have good depth, they need a 1C and he could be that 'final piece'). Hell MTL isn't terribly far from Buffalo. In general though I agree that he is the least likely to wave and would mess this up.

Pearson is a bit underrated by most fans. He doesn't bring the snarl Kane does but points wise he isn't far off. His contract lowers Kane,s value remember.
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May 19, 2020 at 10:41 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Our GM isn't smart? Don't even start this argument. Bergevin > Dubas


Lol. Enjoy the basement of the East. You and Buffalo will make great friends I am sure!
May 19, 2020 at 10:42 p.m.
#8
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Couture and Kane have more value then that and if you're kickstarting the rebuild' you should be getting more futures for those two and realistically if they're realy gonna rebuild and trade Kane and Couture they should trade Hertl as well, maybe Labanc too, should be able to get some good young assets for those two.
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May 19, 2020 at 10:43 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Random2152
Habs fans overvalue their players more than any other fanbase and quite frankly your GM isn't smart. This is absolutely something you guys would do if you wanted to win now.


It seems to me that having a team full of 30+ year olds signed through the next decade is what got San Jose stuck in their current predicament.

Forgive us for not wanting that on MTL.
May 19, 2020 at 10:46 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: LumberJacques
It seems to me that having a team full of 30+ year olds signed through the next decade is what got San Jose stuck in their current predicament.

Forgive us for not wanting that on MTL.


Hence the GM isn't smart thing. I discus most of these things for the Habs trade in more detail here (https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1697547) but generally the idea is that MTL wants to win right now and they use their cap space and wealth to get the 1C you have been sorely missing for a decade.
May 19, 2020 at 10:46 p.m.
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Quoting: Random2152
Habs fans overvalue their players more than any other fanbase and quite frankly your GM isn't smart. This is absolutely something you guys would do if you wanted to win now.


We wont trade a 25 yo C for a 31 yo C and ****ingh Vlasic contract, we are rebuilding with Price and Weber as the mentor
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May 19, 2020 at 10:47 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Random2152
Hence the GM isn't smart thing. I discus most of these things for the Habs trade in more detail here (https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1697547) but generally the idea is that MTL wants to win right now and they use their cap space and wealth to get the 1C you have been sorely missing for a decade.


Couture would be the 2C so you’re wrong again
May 19, 2020 at 10:48 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: GMs
Couture would be the 2C so you’re wrong again


Lol. Couture would be the best centre your team has had in over 10 years. See what I mean about habs fans overvaluing their ****ty players more than any other fanbase. Get real.
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May 19, 2020 at 10:56 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Couture and Kane have more value then that and if you're kickstarting the rebuild' you should be getting more futures for those two and realistically if they're realy gonna rebuild and trade Kane and Couture they should trade Hertl as well, maybe Labanc too, should be able to get some good young assets for those two.


Hertl and Labanc are still young and on good contracts. No reason to move them just yet.
I agree that Couture has lots of value, but the Vlasic contract might just be the worst in the NHL. The fact that I still think he returns this much with Vlasic weighing him down like a boat anchor shows how highly I would value him.
And exactly how do you mean get more futures. I traded older players for younger players and picks. Remember you do need to have an NHL calibre team, and you can always move Pearson at the deadline for more futures.
May 19, 2020 at 10:59 p.m.
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Quoting: BluesBandit
Haven’t seen many if any Sharks posts resigning, Melker. Why is that? What do you think he’d sign for?


Melker is just awful everywhere but on the PK. I wouldn't sign him for free.
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May 19, 2020 at 11:05 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Random2152
Hence the GM isn't smart thing. I discus most of these things for the Habs trade in more detail here (https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1697547) but generally the idea is that MTL wants to win right now and they use their cap space and wealth to get the 1C you have been sorely missing for a decade.


Tha Habs havent filled thier team with 30+ players, they're actually one of the youngest in the league.

We dont want to win now, that's why we have sold off assets the past 2 straight deadlines and havent traded any youth away.

Our 1C is in the pipeline, Danault is a great placeholder and Domi fills out the top 6 C role. Suzuki and KK will take over thier jobs in a few years and MTL will actually be able to sign them because they didnt make deals like this one.
May 19, 2020 at 11:12 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Tha Habs havent filled thier team with 30+ players, they're actually one of the youngest in the league.

We dont want to win now, that's why we have sold off assets the past 2 straight deadlines and havent traded any youth away.

Our 1C is in the pipeline, Danault is a great placeholder and Domi fills out the top 6 C role. Suzuki and KK will take over thier jobs in a few years and MTL will actually be able to sign them because they didnt make deals like this one.


You realise that your team isn't re-building on purpose right? Oh god you haven't. tears of joy
No one in your system looks like a 1C. I am sorry to let you know. Your 2-3 year future looks more like:
Domi-SOMEONE-Gally
Drouin-JK-Suzuki
Lehkonen-Poehling?-Caufield
Guy-Guy-Guy

Guy-Guy
Mete-Weber
Romanov-Guy

Price-Guy

You need a 1C desperately, and no Dannault isn't a 1C. While you're at it you need a top D prospect.
May 19, 2020 at 11:16 p.m.
#18
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It would be an amazing kick start to a rebuild but it's just a fun fantasy team, because it runs closer to impossible than unlikely. I think, based on your only justification of it being to say Bergevin is stupid, that the MTL deal doesn't happen, it's just too much cap for too much term, especially with the current cap outlook being shaky.
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May 19, 2020 at 11:16 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: Random2152
Hence the GM isn't smart thing. I discus most of these things for the Habs trade in more detail here (https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1697547) but generally the idea is that MTL wants to win right now and they use their cap space and wealth to get the 1C you have been sorely missing for a decade.


The issue is that Couture hasn't really ever been his team's 1C, more of an elite 2C imo behind Thornton and/or Pavelski. Hell his best statistical season was 70 points in 18-19 (the same year Domi got 72) which doesn't mean that much considering Tomas Plekanec also had this mark as his best.

With Couture now in his 30's it must be expected that his play will begin to drop off, and with 7 years left on his contact it just doesn't seem like a smart idea to buy for maybe 1 or 2 years of good hockey.

Add in Vlasic, Weber and Price to the equation and imminent disaster seems the only destination within 2 years.

If adding an aging 1C is the idea I would rather target one with far less term left like Getzlaf or Kopitar (as unlikely as they are to accept a trade).
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May 19, 2020 at 11:31 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: LumberJacques
The issue is that Couture hasn't really ever been his team's 1C, more of an elite 2C imo behind Thornton and/or Pavelski. Hell his best statistical season was 70 points in 18-19 (the same year Domi got 72) which doesn't mean that much considering Tomas Plekanec also had this mark as his best.

With Couture now in his 30's it must be expected that his play will begin to drop off, and with 7 years left on his contact it just doesn't seem like a smart idea to buy for maybe 1 or 2 years of good hockey.

Add in Vlasic, Weber and Price to the equation and imminent disaster seems the only destination within 2 years.

If adding an aging 1C is the idea I would rather target one with far less term left like Getzlaf or Kopitar (as unlikely as they are to accept a trade).


Quoting: J2W
It would be an amazing kick start to a rebuild but it's just a fun fantasy team, because it runs closer to impossible than unlikely. I think, based on your only justification of it being to say Bergevin is stupid, that the MTL deal doesn't happen, it's just too much cap for too much term, especially with the current cap outlook being shaky.




Generally I agree, but as I said I do not respect Bergevin's ability to build a team or evaluate talent. I also think that Couture is better than just his raw points would say and certainly better for you than either of the options you've provided. I also want to point out that Couture has been the 1C for a few years now and is a bonified 1C. He is no Matthews or Eichel or McDavid but he is a 1C through and through.

As I stated in the og thread where I justified this trade further I think Bergevin's seat is beginning to heat up (you certainly aren't sucking on purpose) and that both he and Molson are not interested in re-building. To further clarify for J2W, I also think Bergy would see Vlasic (especially at this much retention) as an asset as many people still do (mostly those who aren't analytically inclined). If you work from the idea that the Habs are trying to win now and want to buy, 'adding' Vlasic and more importantly that 1C you have been missing for so long could be seen as the piece that finally brings you over the top.

You argue that Price and Weber's contracts make this less likely but I actually see it the other way. Your team has two time bombs on it already that are going to weigh you down for years. What is two more if it helps you win a cup now? You have a window already pre-built into your roster and these players don't affect it. I think that is why I think this move does have some logic behind it even if I wouldn't do it as a GM.

Specifically for J2W, MTL doesn't have serious cap issues for a number of years and are in what I describe as a uniquely capable position of dealing with the Vlasic and Couture contracts compared to the rest of the league. The next USTV deal will be signed soon and Covid wont last forever so the cap should be bouncing up soon enough.
May 19, 2020 at 11:37 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Random2152
Lol. Enjoy the basement of the East. You and Buffalo will make great friends I am sure!


Because your GM inherited a good team means he's good? Every move he has made since he's taken charge has hurt the team. Enjoy another 50 years of mediocrity.
May 19, 2020 at 11:43 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Random2152
Either you are trolling or you actually think this.
If you actually think this, you are stupid and don't understand a thing about hockey or transactions - full stop.


Oh, I understand hockey. You probably think Tavares was a good signing because "He's a franchise center". In reality, it was the worst move Dubas could've done. I'm sorry you're a Leafs fan.
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May 19, 2020 at 11:45 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: Random2152
You realise that your team isn't re-building on purpose right? Oh god you haven't. tears of joy
No one in your system looks like a 1C. I am sorry to let you know. Your 2-3 year future looks more like:
Domi-SOMEONE-Gally
Drouin-JK-Suzuki
Lehkonen-Poehling?-Caufield
Guy-Guy-Guy

Guy-Guy
Mete-Weber
Romanov-Guy

Price-Guy

You need a 1C desperately, and no Dannault isn't a 1C. While you're at it you need a top D prospect.


You realize that we were never contenders right? And that Bergevins original plan was to keep rebuilding, then he had a 2nd round dmen become a star defenceman, and Price entered his 3 years of godliness. There was no depth behind that and then he had to sell off picks to try and use that window, of course it didnt work and now he is back to where he actually wanted to be.

Both Suzuki and KK look like future top 6 centers. The line up you listed above is actually quite like able. Add in the top 10 pick we have this year and maybe 1 other prospect that makes the lineup just because it's the law of averages.

Danault is a top C 5v5, his offense isnt good enough to be a pp contributor but all his numbers 5v5 are among the best. Romanov is that d prospect.

The line up you just posted is actually probably more complete then most teams if you were to look that far into the future.
May 19, 2020 at 11:48 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: Random2152
Generally I agree, but as I said I do not respect Bergevin's ability to build a team or evaluate talent. I also think that Couture is better than just his raw points would say and certainly better for you than either of the options you've provided. I also want to point out that Couture has been the 1C for a few years now and is a bonified 1C. He is no Matthews or Eichel or McDavid but he is a 1C through and through.

As I stated in the og thread where I justified this trade further I think Bergevin's seat is beginning to heat up (you certainly aren't sucking on purpose) and that both he and Molson are not interested in re-building. To further clarify for J2W, I also think Bergy would see Vlasic (especially at this much retention) as an asset as many people still do (mostly those who aren't analytically inclined). If you work from the idea that the Habs are trying to win now and want to buy, 'adding' Vlasic and more importantly that 1C you have been missing for so long could be seen as the piece that finally brings you over the top.

You argue that Price and Weber's contracts make this less likely but I actually see it the other way. Your team has two time bombs on it already that are going to weigh you down for years. What is two more if it helps you win a cup now? You have a window already pre-built into your roster and these players don't affect it. I think that is why I think this move does have some logic behind it even if I wouldn't do it as a GM.

Specifically for J2W, MTL doesn't have serious cap issues for a number of years and are in what I describe as a uniquely capable position of dealing with the Vlasic and Couture contracts compared to the rest of the league. The next USTV deal will be signed soon and Covid wont last forever so the cap should be bouncing up soon enough.


Again you're justification for the trade is your opinion of the GM and see it as a long shot but possible, that's fine. Couture on his own is something I'd explore, but if Mtl is in win now mode the might as well look at Kopitar and someone like Brodin for futures. Even in win now mode it's a barely passable idea, there's just better options out there.
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May 19, 2020 at 11:56 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: BluesBandit
Haven’t seen many if any Sharks posts resigning, Melker. Why is that? What do you think he’d sign for?

He’s a decent bottom 6 winger Best suited to 4th line And his main focus is penalty kill and defensive hockey (I.E. late in games with a lead) I honestly like the guy but if I Have to pick between him and a guy like Noesen I wana go with the younger player with more upside.
 
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