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sakic and dubas II

Created by: DirtyDangle
Team: 2020-21 Colorado Avalanche
Initial Creation Date: May 20, 2020
Published: May 21, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
sakic returns to os mikheyev for 3 years at 3m. gives up late 2nd.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$3,000,000
5$5,000,000
3$2,750,000
3$2,250,000
3$1,000,000
3$2,750,000
3$3,500,000
2$950,000
Offer Sheets
Offer sheet annual average (AAV) is calculated by dividing the contract value by the lower of: 1. The contract length, or 2. Five years
PLAYERAAVCOMPENSATION
Mikheyev, Ilya$3,000,000
2021 2nd round pick
Trades
1.
COL
  1. 2021 4th round pick (FLA)
2.
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the COL
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the COL
2021
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
2022
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,518,095$0$5,425,000$1,981,905
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,571,429$5,571,429
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,300,000$6,300,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$9,250,000$9,250,000
RW, C
UFA - 5
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,900,000$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$2,250,000$2,250,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,850,000$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$1,800,000$1,800,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
RW
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,333,333$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,000,000$2,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,450,000$3,450,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$925,000$925,000
RD
RFA - 1

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May 21, 2020 at 9:42 a.m.
#26
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Ok. Do you know what trades are?


I do. I don't see the leafs moving guys like johnsson and kapanen just to match an offersheet for a guy who has played less than half a season.
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May 21, 2020 at 9:50 a.m.
#27
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I do. I don't see the leafs moving guys like johnsson and kapanen just to match an offersheet for a guy who has played less than half a season.


And that's a fair opinion. As I said when I originally commented, I can't speak to their personal valuation of Mikheyev, which is what will be the main factor driving their decision on a $3m offer sheet. But they certainly have the ability to match that without much difficulty.
May 21, 2020 at 10:03 a.m.
#28
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Ok. Do you know what trades are?


How many teams are willing to take on additional salary right now for the mediocre forwards did the Leafs would be willing to trade
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May 21, 2020 at 10:06 a.m.
#29
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
And that's a fair opinion. As I said when I originally commented, I can't speak to their personal valuation of Mikheyev, which is what will be the main factor driving their decision on a $3m offer sheet. But they certainly have the ability to match that without much difficulty.


Having the ability to match an offer sheet and being able to hey the best team possible under the salary cap are two different things
May 21, 2020 at 10:07 a.m.
#30
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Quoting: JeffW
How many teams are willing to take on additional salary right now for the mediocre forwards did the Leafs would be willing to trade


Right now, none because trades aren't allowed and we don't have any set number for the cap. Once everyone knows what's going on, things will be able to be worked out.
May 21, 2020 at 10:09 a.m.
#31
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Quoting: JeffW
Having the ability to match an offer sheet and being able to hey the best team possible under the salary cap are two different things


Your point? All I said was that they could match.
May 21, 2020 at 10:10 a.m.
#32
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Right now, none because trades aren't allowed and we don't have any set number for the cap. Once everyone knows what's going on, things will be able to be worked out.


That's not really an answer for a guy that said it could be easily done.
May 21, 2020 at 10:11 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Your point? All I said was that they could match.


Yes but if you actually read our posts we were talking about would they, as one of the other guys has stated 7 players with five million dollars to spend
May 21, 2020 at 10:13 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: JeffW
That's not really an answer for a guy that said it could be easily done.


Sure it is. At the moment I think we are all assuming a flat cap, as did I, and any type of cap reduction will be accompanied by something else, whether it be CBO's or salary reductions.
May 21, 2020 at 10:14 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: JeffW
In every leafs ACGM they have mikheyev signing between 1.2 and 1.7 mill aav... why would colorado offer sheet him for over 3 mill aav??

Toronto cant afford to pay him over 2 mill and keep what they have and sign a new defensive core.. why not pay him 2.1mill and spend a 3rd instead of a 4th... I bet he takes that over the torontos 1.7 when thinking about the taxes included


Quoting: DirtyDangle
too easy to match imo. that extra $1m and 2nd round pick make it easier to walk away. dubas takes that $3m and 2nd round pick and does something with that rd he has.


Quoting: JeffW
Let's say he matches the 2.1... that 2 mill out of his empty pocket which means he has to say by to 2 of kapanen, kerfoot, and johnsson in order to try and sign a decent dcore.. making his team weaker.. maybe he walks away at 2.1


Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
They match $2.1m in a heartbeat. They have the ability to match $3m if they want to, it would just mean other moves/concessions would have to be made as well.


Quoting: DirtyDangle
my thought exactly. the leafs are over extended on forwards. $3m and a 2rd round pick give the avs a great chance of walking away with the player and i prefer the player over letting the leafs dig the hole deeper. it's win-win for colorado.


$3m x 3 years is the sweetspot for an offersheet imo. It's high enough that Toronto would struggle to match without needing to trade 2-3 of Kapanen/Kerfoot/Johnsson/Dermott and replace them with $1m contracts. It's also low enough in term and AAV that it's low-risk for Colorado.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Mikheyev has income in Toronto from other avenues too (eg. the soup commercial), so an OS of only around $2.1m probably wouldn't be high enough to beat whatever he's making in Toronto overall. That said, unless he's earning ridiculous money on commercials $3m with some term would probably be enough to entice him away.
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May 21, 2020 at 10:21 a.m.
#36
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Quoting: JeffW
Yes but if you actually read our posts we were talking about would they, as one of the other guys has stated 7 players with five million dollars to spend


Yes, and if you read mine, you would see that I alluded to whether they would or wouldn't match being based on their own opinion of Mikheyev. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.
May 21, 2020 at 10:43 a.m.
#37
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Yes, and if you read mine, you would see that I alluded to whether they would or wouldn't match being based on their own opinion of Mikheyev. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.


How do you say offer sheet the kid for 2.1 million, you say they match that in a heartbeat and would match anything up to 3 million dollars per year, I say that they probably let him walk because they are so far up against the cap did it wouldn't be worth it, you say that it's easy to mash & the rest of the team at that amount, I say how could that be, you say they'll figure it out time most likely a compliance buyout or salary reductions, I say they won't agree to salary reductions and even if they did Toronto's biggest contracts have 700k salary with all the money up front in bonuses ... you have yet to convince me that they can easily match middle 6 Winger for 2.1 million dollars which is my point
May 21, 2020 at 11:06 a.m.
#38
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why is this site now obsessed with Mikheyev offersheets and many of them going to the Avs

Come on fellas lets not just copy one anothers homework for the 10th time posting these things
May 21, 2020 at 11:10 a.m.
#39
Dubas isnt a genius
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Did you not just read that article by the Athletic on why European FA's love Toronto?

Also, if you think he's following the money he's better off staying in Toronto with all the sponsorship's. Especially after that lucrative Cambell's commercial...
May 21, 2020 at 11:13 a.m.
#40
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Quoting: Richard88
$3m x 3 years is the sweetspot for an offersheet imo. It's high enough that Toronto would struggle to match without needing to trade 2-3 of Kapanen/Kerfoot/Johnsson/Dermott and replace them with $1m contracts. It's also low enough in term and AAV that it's low-risk for Colorado.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Mikheyev has income in Toronto from other avenues too (eg. the soup commercial), so an OS of only around $2.1m probably wouldn't be high enough to beat whatever he's making in Toronto overall. That said, unless he's earning ridiculous money on commercials $3m with some term would probably be enough to entice him away.


He is earning ridiculous amounts on his sponsorship's. Especially as he steps into a larger role next year, I could see him making 1m, maybe more off them.

He also loves Toronto and reportedly is a major reason Barabanov signed there. You should read the article The Athletic did on Toronto's connections with European FA's.
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May 21, 2020 at 11:17 a.m.
#41
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
makes sense to me and reduces total pay even if it increases pay for the 4th line. avs are going for a cup not rebuilding, prospects don't get guaranteed time now they have to earn it. building the best nhl roster is first priority. prospects are second priority. not sure why you bring up bednar's playing time for 4th line when you know he's been slashing both zadorovs and josts playing time all year.


So adding a guy like Woods, who will make close to double what Jost does for the exact same point production is smart? Adding 2 guys with 2 more years tying up and additional $5M in cap space knowing Makar and Landeskog is smart? Blocking Kaut and Bowers 1st round picks is smart? Gotcha.
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May 21, 2020 at 11:20 a.m.
#42
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Quoting: JeffW
How do you say offer sheet the kid for 2.1 million, you say they match that in a heartbeat and would match anything up to 3 million dollars per year


I did not say they would match anything up to $3m, I said they could.

Quoting: JeffW
I say that they probably let him walk because they are so far up against the cap did it wouldn't be worth it, you say that it's easy to mash & the rest of the team at that amount


I did not say anything about keeping the entire team together after matching that OS, in fact I said other moves/concessions would have to be made.

Quoting: JeffW
I say how could that be, you say they'll figure it out time most likely a compliance buyout or salary reductions, I say they won't agree to salary reductions and even if they did Toronto's biggest contracts have 700k salary with all the money up front in bonuses


My point was pretty clear, here. Assuming a flat cap, their ability to match remains unchanged. Should the cap go down, there will likely be some kind of crutch for teams. In a scenario where the cap goes down, considering we have no idea by how much or what other things would come hand in hand with that, I can't speculate on what their ability to match an OS would look like. Though, in a situation of cap/salary reduction, I'm quite sure that players cap hits will also be reduced, but I'm not positive.

Quoting: JeffW
... you have yet to convince me that they can easily match middle 6 Winger for 2.1 million dollars which is my point


Assuming a flat cap... Trade Johnsson. If you can do that, you can fit under the cap, and if you want to address the defense, make more moves from there.
May 21, 2020 at 12:12 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: Xqb15
So adding a guy like Woods, who will make close to double what Jost does for the exact same point production is smart? Adding 2 guys with 2 more years tying up and additional $5M in cap space knowing Makar and Landeskog is smart? Blocking Kaut and Bowers 1st round picks is smart? Gotcha.


jost is coming off an elc in case you forgot.

cole, calvert, and bellemare are all coming off the books next season that's $9m right there. add in seattle taking their pick and your at $12m or more. $12m is enough to cover raises. if another contract needs to be moved compher, donskoi, nichushkin, zacha, wood, graves are all movable contracts, you're panicking over nothing.

kaut fills in for injuries and bowers and kaut get their big break the following season. it's actually extremely common to have 21 year olds play in the ahl especially if you have a deep team.

depth is smart. you're still stuck in the rebuild mentality where picks are more valuable then young established players and prospects get guaranteed roles before first establishing themselves in the nhl.
May 21, 2020 at 12:35 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
jost is coming off an elc in case you forgot.

cole, calvert, and bellemare are all coming off the books next season that's $9m right there. add in seattle taking their pick and your at $12m or more. $12m is enough to cover raises. if another contract needs to be moved compher, donskoi, nichushkin, zacha, wood, graves are all movable contracts, you're panicking over nothing.

kaut fills in for injuries and bowers and kaut get their big break the following season. it's actually extremely common to have 21 year olds play in the ahl especially if you have a deep team.

depth is smart. you're still stuck in the rebuild mentality where picks are more valuable then young established players and prospects get guaranteed roles before first establishing themselves in the nhl.


I’m not in rebuild mode, you’re in ignorance mode. Jost even on an extension is going to make 1/2 what Woods makes. Kaut is NHL ready now, Bowers is there, but you’re answer is to spend money and assets on the least impactful area of the team. Teams with prospects and depth don’t trade for 2/3rds of a 4th line, is a silly waste of assets. And I 100% guarantee the Avs aren’t doing it
May 21, 2020 at 12:50 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: Xqb15
I’m not in rebuild mode, you’re in ignorance mode. Jost even on an extension is going to make 1/2 what Woods makes. Kaut is NHL ready now, Bowers is there, but you’re answer is to spend money and assets on the least impactful area of the team. Teams with prospects and depth don’t trade for 2/3rds of a 4th line, is a silly waste of assets. And I 100% guarantee the Avs aren’t doing it


jost going to make more than half as all his comparables do and zadorov is going to make more than everyone.

kaut can play bottom line minutes in the nhl or top line in ahl. avs have a better chance at a cup with a deeper lineup. bowers isn't nhl ready by 2021 he should be able. you'd be rushing bowers to put him in the nhl already.

jost and zadorov likely aren't in the long term plans especially zadorov. both have seen their roles cut and are being passed by other players in the organization. i know you probably think you can just dump them on another team for good draft picks but all teams are going to want to dump salary and aren't going to give good picks and take back no salary for colorado's misfits.

i'm curious how your team would look. you should post one.
May 21, 2020 at 2:58 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
jost going to make more than half as all his comparables do and zadorov is going to make more than everyone.

kaut can play bottom line minutes in the nhl or top line in ahl. avs have a better chance at a cup with a deeper lineup. bowers isn't nhl ready by 2021 he should be able. you'd be rushing bowers to put him in the nhl already.

jost and zadorov likely aren't in the long term plans especially zadorov. both have seen their roles cut and are being passed by other players in the organization. i know you probably think you can just dump them on another team for good draft picks but all teams are going to want to dump salary and aren't going to give good picks and take back no salary for colorado's misfits.

i'm curious how your team would look. you should post one.


You’re wrong about Kaut and partially wrong about Bowers. All playing a guy in the AHL who is ready for the NHL does is expose them to unnecessary injuries. The purpose of having prospects that you develop (elite prospects are different) is that they can grow on the 3/4th line as inexpensive talent so that if needed you can use that money and resources where it makes a bigger impact.

As for my team construction it would be boring as hell because there isn’t a lot to do to this team. On the RFA front I would QO and only give 1 yr deals to Jost and Nichushkin(they blow up and earn a nice raise fantastic, they stay in that low 20pt range you can reassess next year), maybe Graves gets a multiyear deal. Burakovsky I would love to see on a 4x5M. Trade Kamenev and Greer for whatever you could get. Then Big Z (sigh), I think his days are numbered and use him either as part of a top 6 wing trade, or deal for picks. Staying cap flexible IMO will be super important to this team in the coming years. Regardless I think they look for a top 6 winger maybe somebody in free agency like Toffoli or somebody via trade like Palmieri, Rackell, if those fail I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Namestikov back as a lower price option.

People forget this is a team that is top 4 in GF, GA, Pts and wins. They’ve done that suffering a spate of injuries to significant players. Why would they want to drastically alter the composition or direction of the team. Sometimes less is more.

Also if I came across as a bit harsh my apologies, this is all fun and love talking hockey.
May 21, 2020 at 3:38 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: Xqb15
You’re wrong about Kaut and partially wrong about Bowers. All playing a guy in the AHL who is ready for the NHL does is expose them to unnecessary injuries. The purpose of having prospects that you develop (elite prospects are different) is that they can grow on the 3/4th line as inexpensive talent so that if needed you can use that money and resources where it makes a bigger impact.

As for my team construction it would be boring as hell because there isn’t a lot to do to this team. On the RFA front I would QO and only give 1 yr deals to Jost and Nichushkin(they blow up and earn a nice raise fantastic, they stay in that low 20pt range you can reassess next year), maybe Graves gets a multiyear deal. Burakovsky I would love to see on a 4x5M. Trade Kamenev and Greer for whatever you could get. Then Big Z (sigh), I think his days are numbered and use him either as part of a top 6 wing trade, or deal for picks. Staying cap flexible IMO will be super important to this team in the coming years. Regardless I think they look for a top 6 winger maybe somebody in free agency like Toffoli or somebody via trade like Palmieri, Rackell, if those fail I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Namestikov back as a lower price option.

People forget this is a team that is top 4 in GF, GA, Pts and wins. They’ve done that suffering a spate of injuries to significant players. Why would they want to drastically alter the composition or direction of the team. Sometimes less is more.

Also if I came across as a bit harsh my apologies, this is all fun and love talking hockey.


playing kaut in the ahl allows him to develop his skills. he'll be getting more playing time and responsibility. it also allows players another year of physical growth and conditioning. it would be a good decision to let him play top minutes in the ahl if the avs can afford too. a cheap elc might be too much to pass up.

nichushkin is arbitration eligible so by giving him his qo he now has the right to file for arbitration. i can't see him getting more than $3m or whatever the walk away amount is so the avs would have to sign him for whatever the arbitrator thinks his market value is. he has a few comparable that make around $2.25-2.75m range. As far as i can tell jost doesn't have arbitration rights so the avs can give him a take it or leave it qo but i wouldn't expect him to sign it. if given that ultimatum you likely have another puljujarvi/andersson situation where you aren't getting anything from your asset and the trade value is tanked.

kamenev should be able to return a pick or similar player. greer doesn't have any value unless you're just looking for an ahl player which would be easier to just sign one than sign greer and then trade him. zadorov isn't returning a top 6 forward he just doesn't hold that value. he's a bottom pair defenseman with a high qo. i agree with the top 6 forward. it doesn't have to be mikheyev but he is young, cheap and will likely come without much term. i'd rather stay away from ufa as the cap hit and term go up from there.

i added a lot to the bottom six but all contracts are movable if need be next year. if injuries happen and you want to bolster your line during the season it's going to cost a good pick or prospect. if the avs have the money to go with the cap space they should add the depth in the off season.

no worries i like to have fun and talking **** too.
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