Forums/Armchair-GM

Jason Botterill is the worst

Created by: Sabres923
Initial Creation Date: May 22, 2020
Published: May 22 at 7:37 pm
Team: 2019-20 Buffalo Sabres
Trades
BUF
    CGY
    1. Frolík, Michael
    Additional Details:
    Worst hockey player I’ve seen.
    BUF
    1. O'Reilly, Ryan
    STL
    1. Thompson, Tage
    2. Sobotka, Vladimír
    Additional Details:
    Pain
    BUF
    1. 2021 5th round pick (BUF)
    NJD
    1. Simmonds, Wayne
    Additional Details:
    “for the playoff push”
    BUF
    1. Kane, Evander
    SJS
    1. Montour, Brandon
    Additional Details:
    (Montour was apart of the Kane trade tree.)
    BUF
    1. 2021 3rd round pick (BUF)
    NYR
    1. Vesey, Jimmy
    Additional Details:
    Could have just kept Pominville
    Buyouts
    • Cody Hodgson: $791,667
    • Ville Leino: $0
    • Christian Ehrhoff: $0
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2020
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    DAL
    2021
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    2022
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    BUF
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$81,500,000$74,934,167$0$7,532,500$6,565,833
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    BUF
    Skinner, Jeff
    $9,000,000
    LW, RW
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    BUF
    Eichel, Jack
    $10,000,000
    C
    UFA - 7
    BUF
    Reinhart, Sam
    $3,650,000
    RW, C
    RFA - 1
    SJS
    Kane, Evander
    $7,000,000
    LW
    NTC
    UFA - 6
    STL
    O'Reilly, Ryan
    $7,500,000
    C
    UFA - 4
    BUF
    Kahun, Dominik
    $925,000
    LW, RW, C
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Johansson, Marcus
    $4,500,000
    C, LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    BUF
    Mittelstadt, Casey
    $925,000
    C
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Olofsson, Victor
    $767,500
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Girgensons, Zemgus
    $1,600,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    BUF
    Larsson, Johan
    $1,550,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    BUF
    Okposo, Kyle
    $6,000,000
    RW
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    BUF
    Dahlin, Rasmus
    $925,000
    LD
    RFA - 2
    BUF
    Miller, Colin
    $3,875,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    BUF
    Ullmark, Linus
    $1,325,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Pilut, Lawrence
    $925,000
    LD
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Ristolainen, Rasmus
    $5,400,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    BUF
    Hutton, Carter
    $2,750,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    BUF
    McCabe, Jake
    $2,850,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    BUF
    Jokiharju, Henri
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    BUF
    Lazar, Curtis
    $700,000
    C, RW
    RFA - 1
    BUF
    Hunwick, Matt
    $2,250,000
    LD
    UFA - 1
    BUF
    Wilson, Scott
    $1,050,000
    LW
    UFA - 1

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    May 22 at 7:43
    #1
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 1,059
    Likes: 531
    i mean he kinda scammed CHI for Jokiharju and PIT for Kahun though, both of which could be 2 solid contributors going forward
    Sabresfan7 liked this.
    May 22 at 7:43
    #2
    Go Sabs
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,090
    Likes: 460
    Would be nice to have foligno back too.
    Shibbal18 and sabres1108 liked this.
    May 22 at 7:43
    #3
    Go Sabs
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,090
    Likes: 460
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    i mean he kinda scammed CHI for Jokiharju and PIT for Kahun though, both of which could be 2 solid contributors going forward


    Overall it's a net failure though.
    sabres1108 and Sabresfan7 liked this.
    May 22 at 7:44
    #4
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 865
    Likes: 360
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    i mean he kinda scammed CHI for Jokiharju and PIT for Kahun though, both of which could be 2 solid contributors going forward

    Right but he traded a top 15 center. Caused a defenseman log jam. Caused cap overages. And couldn’t even build a team good enough to make a 24 team playoff.
    sabres1108, Sabresfan7, Smithcd995 and 1 other person liked this.
    May 22 at 7:44
    #5
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 865
    Likes: 360
    Quoting: Smithcd995
    Would be nice to have foligno back too.


    Quoting: Smithcd995
    Would be nice to have foligno back too.

    No
    gretzkyghosts liked this.
    May 22 at 7:44
    #6
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    I mean technically if the team didnt give up in the middle of February theyd be a playoff team now. I hope they learned their lesson
    BuFfaLOFaN and gretzkyghosts liked this.
    May 22 at 7:45
    #7
    Vegas Arm GM
    Joined: Aug 2019
    Posts: 1,511
    Likes: 265
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    i mean he kinda scammed CHI for Jokiharju and PIT for Kahun though, both of which could be 2 solid contributors going forward


    If he were to pull a Dorian though this post might not have happened
    May 22 at 7:47
    #8
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: Smithcd995
    Would be nice to have foligno back too.


    Yes it very much would
    May 22 at 7:52
    #9
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 865
    Likes: 360
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    I mean technically if the team didnt give up in the middle of February theyd be a playoff team now. I hope they learned their lesson


    Quoting: Shibbal18
    I mean technically if the team didnt give up in the middle of February theyd be a playoff team now. I hope they learned their lesson


    Quoting: Shibbal18
    I mean technically if the team didnt give up in the middle of February theyd be a playoff team now. I hope they learned their lesson


    It falls on Kruger too. You don’t put Jeff Skinner with Curtis Lazar and Frolik. Plus if Ullmark doesn’t get hurt they probably make the “Playoffs”
    May 22 at 8:07
    #10
    Leafs
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 2,691
    Likes: 824
    I truly feel bad for Sabres fans. Must be so annoying to be on the cusp of having such a great team with all of the right pieces, and always falling short. Kind of like us in the first round, but instead in like December for them.
    Shibbal18, sabres89, BuFfaLOFaN and 1 other person liked this.
    May 22 at 8:22
    #11
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: Sabres923
    It falls on Kruger too. You don’t put Jeff Skinner with Curtis Lazar and Frolik. Plus if Ullmark doesn’t get hurt they probably make the “Playoffs”


    Unless youre putting Olofsson there though, they dont have many options, they have no 2 or 3 C and their 2nd best center is a 3rd line winger. I dont blame Skinner or Kreuger for that, more to do with the title of this ACGM lol. Definitely agree, too, that Ullmark could have won them some extra points as well
    sabres89 liked this.
    May 22 at 8:25
    #12
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    i mean he kinda scammed CHI for Jokiharju and PIT for Kahun though, both of which could be 2 solid contributors going forward


    Just because Bowman is worse doesnt make Botterill good lol. Kahun needs to stay healthy before we call that a win
    sabres89 liked this.
    May 22 at 8:29
    #13
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 1,059
    Likes: 531
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    Just because Bowman is worse doesnt make Botterill good lol. Kahun needs to stay healthy before we call that a win


    He also got Jeff skinner in a trade for Cliff Pu lol and that ROR trade was gonna be as bad if Thompson didnt break his body and you guys drafted well with the 1st rounder with someone like Pinto, Kaliyev, Robertson, literally anyone that went in the second round
    gretzkyghosts liked this.
    May 22 at 8:35
    #14
    Go Sabs
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 1,090
    Likes: 460
    Quoting: leafs101
    I truly feel bad for Sabres fans. Must be so annoying to be on the cusp of having such a great team with all of the right pieces, and always falling short. Kind of like us in the first round, but instead in like December for them.


    I just want to have an Eichel and Matthews playoff series before both contracts expire. The Sabres will keep letting us down though.
    leafs101 and BuFfaLOFaN liked this.
    May 22 at 8:44
    #15
    Sabres are elite
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 3,681
    Likes: 933
    He has been 50/50 for trades. Fleeced Carolina, Chicago, and Pittsburgh twice. Got fleeced by STL, SJS, Calgary, Montreal, and Minnesota. Signed a poor contract in Skinner but a good one in McCabe. Has drafted decently well. Our prospects are developing well. And not to mention he got Kruger which was a huge step. But when you trade two top 6 forwards and all you really got was 1/2 of Montour, 2/3 of Miller, and Johnson thats terrible
    Shibbal18 and BuFfaLOFaN liked this.
    May 22 at 8:54
    #16
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    He also got Jeff skinner in a trade for Cliff Pu lol and that ROR trade was gonna be as bad if Thompson didnt break his body and you guys drafted well with the 1st rounder with someone like Pinto, Kaliyev, Robertson, literally anyone that went in the second round


    Thompson was never a great prospect. And yeah those picks are insanely bad, imagine if they had Ylonen and Kaliyev coming up within a year or 2
    sabres89 liked this.
    May 22 at 9:21
    #17
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 1,059
    Likes: 531
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    Thompson was never a great prospect. And yeah those picks are insanely bad, imagine if they had Ylonen and Kaliyev coming up within a year or 2


    Or Nick Robertson coming up potentially next year, and Thompson was known as a pretty good prospect at the time but the main target shouldve been Kyrou
    Shibbal18 liked this.
    May 22 at 10:09
    #18
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: SlickWilly
    Or Nick Robertson coming up potentially next year, and Thompson was known as a pretty good prospect at the time but the main target shouldve been Kyrou


    Especially after taking 2 cap dumps instead of a roster player
    May 23 at 11:46
    #19
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 1,108
    Likes: 285
    @Shibbal18
    @SlickWilly
    @Skyraider112
    @leafs101
    @Sabres923
    @Smithcd995
    I know it is a shame to break up a Stanley Cup team and have nothing to show for it. I mean how can anyone break up a Stanley Cup team just to rebuild it.
    I know we all want to wax nostalgically but Kane, O'Reilly were on the team that brought us Dahlin.
    I guess if we had kept Kane and O'Reilly the team would have won the cup two years in a row and could have drafted Jack Hughes in 2019.
    You all may want quitters on the team but I do not. I have seen in other sports when a player quits, he is sometimes just cut from the roster (see Steelers Antonio Brown).
    I wish we had Foligno right now but at the time of the trade getting Pominville and Scandella filled two HUGE holes LHD and top 6 RW. I would not rate that as a loss.
    Botterill definitely messed up the Scandella and Frolick trades, neither made any sense to me at all, I think I had several posts on this site where I thought Scandella was worth a 2nd.
    He should have been able squeeze out more when Beaulieu was traded.
    The Sharks were the only team bidding for Kane and swapping Kane for Montour is looking pretty good right now.
    He stole Jokiharju.
    He stole Montour (who had the best +/- of all skaters last year).
    He stole Skinner.
    He stole Miller.
    Getting Kahun for Rodrigues and a fourth (the pick the Sabres gave up to get Sheary) is a steal.
    Maybe he could have received more for O'Reilly but right now it is Miller, Thompson and Ryan Johnson. I think we need to give the trade some time to see.
    I guess we all forgot the Blues missed the playoffs by one pt then added, Perron, Bozak and O'Reilly and were in last place until January 3rd when Binnington want insane and won 24 games.
    Let me add, up to the Boston series, O'Reilly had the worse +/- of all players still in the Stanley Cup. He may have won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but Binnington got the Blues to the playoff, the rest of the team got them to the finals.

    TBH, I at first liked getting Kruger. At the time of the signing an insider thought it was a bad move. Now I agree, we should have kept Housley.
    You can all rip me now, but let's keep in mind the Sabres were a last place team the year O'Reilly was trade, and the Blues were a last place team until Binnington came along.
    May 23 at 12:52
    #20
    Joined: Nov 2017
    Posts: 1,059
    Likes: 531
    Quoting: gretzkyghosts
    @Shibbal18
    @SlickWilly
    @Skyraider112
    @leafs101
    @Sabres923
    @Smithcd995
    I know it is a shame to break up a Stanley Cup team and have nothing to show for it. I mean how can anyone break up a Stanley Cup team just to rebuild it.
    I know we all want to wax nostalgically but Kane, O'Reilly were on the team that brought us Dahlin.
    I guess if we had kept Kane and O'Reilly the team would have won the cup two years in a row and could have drafted Jack Hughes in 2019.
    You all may want quitters on the team but I do not. I have seen in other sports when a player quits, he is sometimes just cut from the roster (see Steelers Antonio Brown).
    I wish we had Foligno right now but at the time of the trade getting Pominville and Scandella filled two HUGE holes LHD and top 6 RW. I would not rate that as a loss.
    Botterill definitely messed up the Scandella and Frolick trades, neither made any sense to me at all, I think I had several posts on this site where I thought Scandella was worth a 2nd.
    He should have been able squeeze out more when Beaulieu was traded.
    The Sharks were the only team bidding for Kane and swapping Kane for Montour is looking pretty good right now.
    He stole Jokiharju.
    He stole Montour (who had the best +/- of all skaters last year).
    He stole Skinner.
    He stole Miller.
    Getting Kahun for Rodrigues and a fourth (the pick the Sabres gave up to get Sheary) is a steal.
    Maybe he could have received more for O'Reilly but right now it is Miller, Thompson and Ryan Johnson. I think we need to give the trade some time to see.
    I guess we all forgot the Blues missed the playoffs by one pt then added, Perron, Bozak and O'Reilly and were in last place until January 3rd when Binnington want insane and won 24 games.
    Let me add, up to the Boston series, O'Reilly had the worse +/- of all players still in the Stanley Cup. He may have won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but Binnington got the Blues to the playoff, the rest of the team got them to the finals.

    TBH, I at first liked getting Kruger. At the time of the signing an insider thought it was a bad move. Now I agree, we should have kept Housley.
    You can all rip me now, but let's keep in mind the Sabres were a last place team the year O'Reilly was trade, and the Blues were a last place team until Binnington came along.


    Completely forgot about Miller and Montour too
    gretzkyghosts liked this.
    May 23 at 1:41
    #21
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Edited May 23 at 1:48
    Quoting: gretzkyghosts
    @Shibbal18
    @SlickWilly
    @Skyraider112
    @leafs101
    @Sabres923
    @Smithcd995
    I know it is a shame to break up a Stanley Cup team and have nothing to show for it. I mean how can anyone break up a Stanley Cup team just to rebuild it.
    I know we all want to wax nostalgically but Kane, O'Reilly were on the team that brought us Dahlin.
    I guess if we had kept Kane and O'Reilly the team would have won the cup two years in a row and could have drafted Jack Hughes in 2019.
    You all may want quitters on the team but I do not. I have seen in other sports when a player quits, he is sometimes just cut from the roster (see Steelers Antonio Brown).
    I wish we had Foligno right now but at the time of the trade getting Pominville and Scandella filled two HUGE holes LHD and top 6 RW. I would not rate that as a loss.
    Botterill definitely messed up the Scandella and Frolick trades, neither made any sense to me at all, I think I had several posts on this site where I thought Scandella was worth a 2nd.
    He should have been able squeeze out more when Beaulieu was traded.
    The Sharks were the only team bidding for Kane and swapping Kane for Montour is looking pretty good right now.
    He stole Jokiharju.
    He stole Montour (who had the best +/- of all skaters last year).
    He stole Skinner.
    He stole Miller.
    Getting Kahun for Rodrigues and a fourth (the pick the Sabres gave up to get Sheary) is a steal.
    Maybe he could have received more for O'Reilly but right now it is Miller, Thompson and Ryan Johnson. I think we need to give the trade some time to see.
    I guess we all forgot the Blues missed the playoffs by one pt then added, Perron, Bozak and O'Reilly and were in last place until January 3rd when Binnington want insane and won 24 games.
    Let me add, up to the Boston series, O'Reilly had the worse +/- of all players still in the Stanley Cup. He may have won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but Binnington got the Blues to the playoff, the rest of the team got them to the finals.

    TBH, I at first liked getting Kruger. At the time of the signing an insider thought it was a bad move. Now I agree, we should have kept Housley.
    You can all rip me now, but let's keep in mind the Sabres were a last place team the year O'Reilly was trade, and the Blues were a last place team until Binnington came along.


    ROR didn't quit on the Sabres this has been debunked multiple time (Eichel on spittin chiclets). The Pegula's over stepped their boundries and did handcuff Botterill, but its still not an excuse. Also saying its not that bad of a trade because ROR had a bad +/- in the playoffs and they were last place in January (i think they were 4.5 games out of the playoffs at the time) only to be saved by Binnington, im going to say is completely wrong. ROR won the Conn Smythe for a reason. - L
    Thompson is not impressive - L
    Miller is fine, but not impressive, and fell off a cliff coming to Buffalo, so it currently looks like Botterill bought high on a player before he came back to earth. If you trade stocks you know not to do that, thats how you lose money. - L
    Ryan Johnson may end up being a good to great dman but the offensive talent he passes on at that point of the draft was inexcusable, especially as he picked Dahlin and Samuelsson at 1 and 32 the year before and having drafted Lindstrand Cronholm, Kukkonen, Worge Kreu, Laaksonen, and Bryson since he came in in 2017. In fact in 2018 he only drafted dmen save Pekar. 7 of 12 picks were Dmen in the 2 previous drafts, yet he passed on Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, and Hoglander. 8 of 18 picks in 3 years for 6 spots in the NHL that have spots filled already. - L
    Kane for Montour, sure i dont like Kane. But what the trade really was: Kane for the 1st, a 4th (eventually Huglen), and O'Regan (career AHLer) then Guhle and that first for Montour. That first could have been Tracey, Beecher, Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, or Hoglander. So Kane, Guhle, and Tracey for Montour, Huglen, and O'Regan - not looking good
    Jokiharju, again just because someone is worse than you, doesnt make you good - W
    Skinner had a great year with Eichel, paid too much, and fell off due to lack of depth. Jury is still out but this may be a W even after factoring in the contract, I think Skinner bounces back with better forwards, but again their was some good forwards available there in the 2nd round, specifically Lavoie and Fagemo. They could have had the same result this year but instead have Tracey, Kaliyev, and Fagemo coming up instead of Montour, Skinner on the roster and over paid on a losing team and Johnson coming up.
    Tyler Ennis (bad contract) Marcus Foligno (underappreciated power forward) 2018 3rd round pick (Jack McBain also available Jan Jeník, Cameron Hillis, Alec Regula, and Tyler Madden) for Marco Scandella (overpaid 2 or 3 LHD), Jason Pominville (nostalgia winger at the end of his career) 2018 4th round pick (Cronholm) - L
    Deslauriers (aggressive 4th liner) for Redman (career AHLer) if youre a Rochester fan this is a win. I want Deslauriers so IMO -L
    Conor Sheary Matt Hunwick for conditional 4th round pick (Maccelli) Maccelli actually looks good but this trade looks better with the Kahun trade later - W
    Kreuger > Housley easy. I dont know how this isnt a universal opinion.
    Sabres923 liked this.
    May 23 at 2:09
    #22
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 865
    Likes: 360
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    ROR didn't quit on the Sabres this has been debunked multiple time (Eichel on spittin chiclets). The Pegula's over stepped their boundries and did handcuff Botterill, but its still not an excuse. Also saying its not that bad of a trade because ROR had a bad +/- in the playoffs and they were last place in January (i think they were 4.5 games out of the playoffs at the time) only to be saved by Binnington, im going to say is completely wrong. ROR won the Conn Smythe for a reason. - L
    Thompson is not impressive - L
    Miller is fine, but not impressive, and fell off a cliff coming to Buffalo, so it currently looks like Botterill bought high on a player before he came back to earth. If you trade stocks you know not to do that, thats how you lose money. - L
    Ryan Johnson may end up being a good to great dman but the offensive talent he passes on at that point of the draft was inexcusable, especially as he picked Dahlin and Samuelsson at 1 and 32 the year before and having drafted Lindstrand Cronholm, Kukkonen, Worge Kreu, Laaksonen, and Bryson since he came in in 2017. In fact in 2018 he only drafted dmen save Pekar. 7 of 12 picks were Dmen in the 2 previous drafts, yet he passed on Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, and Hoglander. 8 of 18 picks in 3 years for 6 spots in the NHL that have spots filled already. - L
    Kane for Montour, sure i dont like Kane. But what the trade really was: Kane for the 1st, a 4th (eventually Huglen), and O'Regan (career AHLer) then Guhle and that first for Montour. That first could have been Tracey, Beecher, Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, or Hoglander. So Kane, Guhle, and Tracey for Montour, Huglen, and O'Regan - not looking good
    Jokiharju, again just because someone is worse than you, doesnt make you good - W
    Skinner had a great year with Eichel, paid too much, and fell off due to lack of depth. Jury is still out but this may be a W even after factoring in the contract, I think Skinner bounces back with better forwards, but again their was some good forwards available there in the 2nd round, specifically Lavoie and Fagemo. They could have had the same result this year but instead have Tracey, Kaliyev, and Fagemo coming up instead of Montour, Skinner on the roster and over paid on a losing team and Johnson coming up.
    Tyler Ennis (bad contract) Marcus Foligno (underappreciated power forward) 2018 3rd round pick (Jack McBain also available Jan Jeník, Cameron Hillis, Alec Regula, and Tyler Madden) for Marco Scandella (overpaid 2 or 3 LHD), Jason Pominville (nostalgia winger at the end of his career) 2018 4th round pick (Cronholm) - L
    Deslauriers (aggressive 4th liner) for Redman (career AHLer) if youre a Rochester fan this is a win. I want Deslauriers so IMO -L
    Conor Sheary Matt Hunwick for conditional 4th round pick (Maccelli) Maccelli actually looks good but this trade looks better with the Kahun trade later - W
    Kreuger > Housley easy. I dont know how this isnt a universal opinion.

    I liked Housley’s forward lines better than Krueger plus he gave Dahlin a short leash when Bogosian cost them game after game.
    gretzkyghosts liked this.
    May 23 at 2:24
    #23
    Shibbal18
    Joined: Jan 2016
    Posts: 10,761
    Likes: 2,533
    Quoting: Sabres923
    I liked Housley’s forward lines better than Krueger plus he gave Dahlin a short leash when Bogosian cost them game after game.


    Im not blaming Kreuger for Skinner. He has no center so the options are put Skinner with Mittlestadt (nope he got demoted), put Skinner with Johansson (this line was actually doing very well with Sobotka of all people, but when he got hurt they could not find a replacement out of supposedly better forwards to match what Sobotka brought to that line, so giving credit to Kreuger here), try literally any other line combination to see if they can find a spark somewhere (including promoting the much deserved Lazar, and the supposedly better than Sobotka wingers) because your starting goalie got hurt and your season is tanking, or bury Olofsson on lines where Skinner couldn't succeed (which worked only after getting Kuhun 2 weeks before the season ended. Dahlin needed a short lease early on and this will do wonders for his development. Bogosian clearly was being showcased by Botterill so Krueger did not have a voice in this matter, he was probably told it would be a couple of weeks at most and it turned into 3 months. The only questionable decision for me was when Olofsson was hurt, but it is easily defendable as Vesey is supposed to be a 20 goal scorer (much like Reinhart) and he didn't want all of his talent on one line as this would get shut down very quickly. Krueger's faults are Botterill's failures and its not fair to blame Krueger this early.
    May 23 at 2:50
    #24
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 1,108
    Likes: 285
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    ROR didn't quit on the Sabres this has been debunked multiple time (Eichel on spittin chiclets). The Pegula's over stepped their boundries and did handcuff Botterill, but its still not an excuse. Also saying its not that bad of a trade because ROR had a bad +/- in the playoffs and they were last place in January (i think they were 4.5 games out of the playoffs at the time) only to be saved by Binnington, im going to say is completely wrong. ROR won the Conn Smythe for a reason. - L
    Thompson is not impressive - L
    Miller is fine, but not impressive, and fell off a cliff coming to Buffalo, so it currently looks like Botterill bought high on a player before he came back to earth. If you trade stocks you know not to do that, thats how you lose money. - L
    Ryan Johnson may end up being a good to great dman but the offensive talent he passes on at that point of the draft was inexcusable, especially as he picked Dahlin and Samuelsson at 1 and 32 the year before and having drafted Lindstrand Cronholm, Kukkonen, Worge Kreu, Laaksonen, and Bryson since he came in in 2017. In fact in 2018 he only drafted dmen save Pekar. 7 of 12 picks were Dmen in the 2 previous drafts, yet he passed on Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, and Hoglander. 8 of 18 picks in 3 years for 6 spots in the NHL that have spots filled already. - L
    Kane for Montour, sure i dont like Kane. But what the trade really was: Kane for the 1st, a 4th (eventually Huglen), and O'Regan (career AHLer) then Guhle and that first for Montour. That first could have been Tracey, Beecher, Kaliyev, Pinto, Brink, Lavoie, or Hoglander. So Kane, Guhle, and Tracey for Montour, Huglen, and O'Regan - not looking good
    Jokiharju, again just because someone is worse than you, doesnt make you good - W
    Skinner had a great year with Eichel, paid too much, and fell off due to lack of depth. Jury is still out but this may be a W even after factoring in the contract, I think Skinner bounces back with better forwards, but again their was some good forwards available there in the 2nd round, specifically Lavoie and Fagemo. They could have had the same result this year but instead have Tracey, Kaliyev, and Fagemo coming up instead of Montour, Skinner on the roster and over paid on a losing team and Johnson coming up.
    Tyler Ennis (bad contract) Marcus Foligno (underappreciated power forward) 2018 3rd round pick (Jack McBain also available Jan Jeník, Cameron Hillis, Alec Regula, and Tyler Madden) for Marco Scandella (overpaid 2 or 3 LHD), Jason Pominville (nostalgia winger at the end of his career) 2018 4th round pick (Cronholm) - L
    Deslauriers (aggressive 4th liner) for Redman (career AHLer) if youre a Rochester fan this is a win. I want Deslauriers so IMO -L
    Conor Sheary Matt Hunwick for conditional 4th round pick (Maccelli) Maccelli actually looks good but this trade looks better with the Kahun trade later - W
    Kreuger > Housley easy. I dont know how this isnt a universal opinion.


    First, thanks for your comment.
    Jeff with Jack is why I like Housley over Krueger, but as I said, I liked Krueger at first (Just as I liked Murray until he started trading away draft picks for nothing).
    I guess you did not hear O'Reilly say he lost his love of the game. I heard that and immediately thought he had to go.
    Did you know O'Reilly had the worse +/- among all skater going into the finals? Did you know he was on the ice for the only Stars goal in game 7? We can disagree on the contribution O'Reilly made but, it was not only him as so many in Buffalo seem to think.
    O'Reilly may have been the most talented Sabre, but just look at that '17-'18 club. Seven players with 10 or more goals, the Hockey Writers thought they were a playoff team, O'Reilly sets a record for face-off wins, this is not a last over all club. Time to cut the chaff and move on. Let me add, O'Reilly really never led a club to the playoffs, he was just one of many, especially when he only "LED" a team to the playoffs in 3 of his 10 years in the NHL.
    Let me add to Botterill's first year. He knew this club was close to getting to the playoffs, but he knew it lacked leadership, secondary scoring and defense.
    He picked up as many players as he could with playoff experience. Wilson and Nolan (once they were added Deslauriers was extra) each were on a team that won 2 cups. Pomenville, Scandella, Beaulieu, Pouliot all had Stanley cup game experience. Do you remember Nolan saying no one is held accountable? Unfortunately getting playoff and cup experience did not help this team.
    He added Pouliot and Pominville for the secondary scoring.
    Scandella and Beaulieu helped with the really pitiful defense Botterill inherited.
    That should have been a playoff team.

    What I like in particular about Botterill were his efforts to make Rochester better and build a winning tradition there.
    Once a player gets acclimated to losing it is hard to change. Winning starts in Rochester and they are doing it now.
    Long range then how to build a cup, start with a winning atmosphere on the farm.
    So he went about building a better Rochester.
    He was very successful as they have been a playoff team every year since his arrival.
    The three previous years, the Buffalo GM blamed previous management.
    This BTW was the reason he picked up Redman, make Rochester better and trade players that are extra.

    Let me add, I liked Deslauriers, Foligno and Ennis, but he made short term trades that did not pan out at all, to try to make the PO. and this was a PO team that did not produce.

    As to the trades we obviously disagree.
    I will make the trade Kane and Guhle for Montour any time.
    Miller was the fourth RHD and suffered from lack ice time, but he had one of the best advanced metrics among all D-men.
    Many thought (I think you were one of them) Scandella was our best LHD that year, so please let's not call him 2nd or 3rd pairing. You are contradicting your self when you say we should have received a 2nd for him then call him a 3rd pairing defenseman.
    Pomenville was old and over the hill, but he was a throw in to cut the Stars salary and Scandella was the key.

    We can discuss all of the trades and disagree on the value (especially when you say " just because someone is worse than you, doesnt make you good"). So let's agree to disagree.
    While many will jump on the "Jason Botterill is the worst" bandwagon, that honor actually goes to Tim Murray!
    Let me close, Botterill has made a lot of errors, but the rebuild started with the 2018 draft and that was only 2 seasons ago.
    May 23 at 2:51
    #25
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 865
    Likes: 360
    Quoting: gretzkyghosts
    First, thanks for your comment.
    Jeff with Jack is why I like Housley over Krueger, but as I said, I liked Krueger at first (Just as I liked Murray until he started trading away draft picks for nothing).
    I guess you did not hear O'Reilly say he lost his love of the game. I heard that and immediately thought he had to go.
    Did you know O'Reilly had the worse +/- among all skater going into the finals? Did you know he was on the ice for the only Stars goal in game 7? We can disagree on the contribution O'Reilly made but, it was not only him as so many in Buffalo seem to think.
    O'Reilly may have been the most talented Sabre, but just look at that '17-'18 club. Seven players with 10 or more goals, the Hockey Writers thought they were a playoff team, O'Reilly sets a record for face-off wins, this is not a last over all club. Time to cut the chaff and move on. Let me add, O'Reilly really never led a club to the playoffs, he was just one of many, especially when he only "LED" a team to the playoffs in 3 of his 10 years in the NHL.
    Let me add to Botterill's first year. He knew this club was close to getting to the playoffs, but he knew it lacked leadership, secondary scoring and defense.
    He picked up as many players as he could with playoff experience. Wilson and Nolan (once they were added Deslauriers was extra) each were on a team that won 2 cups. Pomenville, Scandella, Beaulieu, Pouliot all had Stanley cup game experience. Do you remember Nolan saying no one is held accountable? Unfortunately getting playoff and cup experience did not help this team.
    He added Pouliot and Pominville for the secondary scoring.
    Scandella and Beaulieu helped with the really pitiful defense Botterill inherited.
    That should have been a playoff team.

    What I like in particular about Botterill were his efforts to make Rochester better and build a winning tradition there.
    Once a player gets acclimated to losing it is hard to change. Winning starts in Rochester and they are doing it now.
    Long range then how to build a cup, start with a winning atmosphere on the farm.
    So he went about building a better Rochester.
    He was very successful as they have been a playoff team every year since his arrival.
    The three previous years, the Buffalo GM blamed previous management.
    This BTW was the reason he picked up Redman, make Rochester better and trade players that are extra.

    Let me add, I liked Deslauriers, Foligno and Ennis, but he made short term trades that did not pan out at all, to try to make the PO. and this was a PO team that did not produce.

    As to the trades we obviously disagree.
    I will make the trade Kane and Guhle for Montour any time.
    Miller was the fourth RHD and suffered from lack ice time, but he had one of the best advanced metrics among all D-men.
    Many thought (I think you were one of them) Scandella was our best LHD that year, so please let's not call him 2nd or 3rd pairing. You are contradicting your self when you say we should have received a 2nd for him then call him a 3rd pairing defenseman.
    Pomenville was old and over the hill, but he was a throw in to cut the Stars salary and Scandella was the key.

    We can discuss all of the trades and disagree on the value (especially when you say " just because someone is worse than you, doesnt make you good"). So let's agree to disagree.
    While many will jump on the "Jason Botterill is the worst" bandwagon, that honor actually goes to Tim Murray!
    Let me close, Botterill has made a lot of errors, but the rebuild started with the 2018 draft and that was only 2 seasons ago.

    Ok sure the rebuild stared in 2018. You still shouldn’t be in 25th place.
    Shibbal18 liked this.
     
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