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Forums/Armchair-GM

Tatar MTL trade

Created by: Richard88
Team: 2020-21 Colorado Avalanche
Initial Creation Date: May 22, 2020
Published: May 22, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Question to MTL fans: Would you do this trade?

Question to COL fans: Would you resign Tatar in 2021 when he is 29? If so, how much for (in terms of AAV and years)?
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
4$5,000,000
3$2,750,000
2$2,250,000
1$925,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,000,000
Trades
1.
COL
  1. Tatar, Tomas
Additional Details:
Avs get a playmaker for Burakovsky and Kadri who has very good underlying stats.
MTL
  1. Jost, Tyson [RFA Rights]
  2. 2020 1st round pick (COL)
Additional Details:
Montreals head scout Trevor Timmins would have selected Jost had Sergachev not been available at #9 in the 2016 draft. And right after Bergevin & Mellanby's visit to the Pepsi Center at the deadline Jost started getting showcased. 2+2 = ....
2.
COL
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (VGK)
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (LAK)
LAK
  1. Zadorov, Nikita [RFA Rights]
3.
COL
  1. 2021 4th round pick (VAN)
VAN
  1. Kamenev, Vladislav [RFA Rights]
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the COL
2021
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the LAK
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
2022
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$76,818,095$0$5,425,000$4,681,905

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,571,429$5,571,429
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,300,000$6,300,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$9,250,000$9,250,000
RW, C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,800,000$4,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,900,000$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,850,000$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$1,800,000$1,800,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
RW
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,333,333$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,000,000$2,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,450,000$3,450,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LD
UFA - 1

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May 22, 2020 at 8:16 p.m.
#1
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Yeah, solid value. If MTL are out of it they should take it.
Richard88 liked this.
May 22, 2020 at 8:18 p.m.
#2
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I like it. I would prefer to trade the 2021 1st instead though.

Re-signing him would largely depend on how he performs in 20-21. If he's solid I would like him to sign an extension, preferably not a max term though, more like 3-4 years. AAV also really depends on the cap and how he plays in his contract year, but I think 6.5-7.5M is a reasonable guess for right now
May 22, 2020 at 8:53 p.m.
#3
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John 3 16
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Quoting: moli92
I like it. I would prefer to trade the 2021 1st instead though.

Re-signing him would largely depend on how he performs in 20-21. If he's solid I would like him to sign an extension, preferably not a max term though, more like 3-4 years. AAV also really depends on the cap and how he plays in his contract year, but I think 6.5-7.5M is a reasonable guess for right now


I agree about 2021 1st. If the draft is in Montreal in 2021 (instead of 2020 as planned) then I think Montreal might take a 2021 1st instead, in order to have two 1st round picks in front of their fans.

I was thinking about whether to resign Tatar, and went to the player stats page here and searched for points by forwards. There's not many forwards over 30 years old near the top of the list other than Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, and the like... Needless to say I would be very wary with resigning Tatar to a 4-6 year contract extension in 2021 when he will already be 30.5 years old. We'd probably be better off treating this as a 1 year rental instead, unless of course he's willing to settle for less than 4 year term at a reasonable cap hit.
May 22, 2020 at 9:16 p.m.
#4
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Not a bad trade coming from a habs fan. For the previous comments tho, its definitly a 2020 first or nothing, we are not in a five years rebuild mode.

As a whole, the value is definitly there and its true that the scouting staff had some love for Jost in 2016 but now, he doesnt fit any real need. I dont see him tossing anyone of Suzuki KK or Danault in the depth chart, there is no real place for him even less with Domi still at center. I would see this happening if one of those guys is traded tho.

Personnally, if we are to trade Tuna, I would prefer getting a real propsect with probably more uncertity but also more potential, I just dont see Jost ever becoming more than a 3rd line player. There is a reason he gets shipped in most avs thread hehe.
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May 22, 2020 at 10:28 p.m.
#5
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one thing i'm of skeptical of weather or not Tatar will adapt to the playing style of Colorado.
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May 22, 2020 at 10:29 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Daredevil514
Not a bad trade coming from a habs fan. For the previous comments tho, its definitly a 2020 first or nothing, we are not in a five years rebuild mode.

As a whole, the value is definitly there and its true that the scouting staff had some love for Jost in 2016 but now, he doesnt fit any real need. I dont see him tossing anyone of Suzuki KK or Danault in the depth chart, there is no real place for him even less with Domi still at center. I would see this happening if one of those guys is traded tho.

Personnally, if we are to trade Tuna, I would prefer getting a real propsect with probably more uncertity but also more potential, I just dont see Jost ever becoming more than a 3rd line player. There is a reason he gets shipped in most avs thread hehe.


I think this was the trade that they were trying to do at the TDL, and MB probably took the stance you are taking, and Sakic didn’t want to give up the 2020 1st primarily because they would then not be picking until the end of the 3rd rd.
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May 22, 2020 at 10:55 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Teemu_salami
one thing i'm of skeptical of weather or not Tatar will adapt to the playing style of Colorado.


I have to say, it kinda feels like a fair concern. Only reason I say that is because of the speed game the Avs play. Remember when Tatar got traded to Vegas? Never quite settled.
Richard88 liked this.
May 22, 2020 at 11:16 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Daredevil514
Not a bad trade coming from a habs fan. For the previous comments tho, its definitly a 2020 first or nothing, we are not in a five years rebuild mode.

As a whole, the value is definitly there and its true that the scouting staff had some love for Jost in 2016 but now, he doesnt fit any real need. I dont see him tossing anyone of Suzuki KK or Danault in the depth chart, there is no real place for him even less with Domi still at center. I would see this happening if one of those guys is traded tho.

Personnally, if we are to trade Tuna, I would prefer getting a real propsect with probably more uncertity but also more potential, I just dont see Jost ever becoming more than a 3rd line player. There is a reason he gets shipped in most avs thread hehe.


It's pretty uncommon for rental players to be traded at the previous year's draft. Unless the order of the offseason is changed so that the draft is after free agency I would expect that trend to continue. It's more likely that this type of trade happens after free agency once teams get a chance to evaluate their teams before the season starts. Like if Sakic was looking to add a forward he would probably check in on Dadonov (and others) in UFA before giving away assets for Tatar (not saying Dadonov is better, just that they would both fill a similar role in COL and it would be smart for Sakic to explore all options before committing to one). I think the time has come and gone for Tatar to return picks in the 2020 draft, that would've been at the TDL if anything imo
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May 23, 2020 at 5:02 a.m.
#9
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Would rather just risk the chance of him leaving in FA than taking this package. Jost is a bust and it's going to be a late 1st.
May 23, 2020 at 5:49 p.m.
#10
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John 3 16
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Would rather just risk the chance of him leaving in FA than taking this package. Jost is a bust and it's going to be a late 1st.


Jost isn't a bust. He's already played over 200 NHL games and at 22 he still has plenty of potential to improve.

Players like Puljujarvi and Lias Anderson who got drafted higher than Jost are what one could classify as busts, because right now they aren't even serviceable NHLers.
May 23, 2020 at 5:51 p.m.
#11
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John 3 16
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Quoting: moli92
It's pretty uncommon for rental players to be traded at the previous year's draft. Unless the order of the offseason is changed so that the draft is after free agency I would expect that trend to continue. It's more likely that this type of trade happens after free agency once teams get a chance to evaluate their teams before the season starts. Like if Sakic was looking to add a forward he would probably check in on Dadonov (and others) in UFA before giving away assets for Tatar (not saying Dadonov is better, just that they would both fill a similar role in COL and it would be smart for Sakic to explore all options before committing to one). I think the time has come and gone for Tatar to return picks in the 2020 draft, that would've been at the TDL if anything imo


I agree. With a flat cap there could be a lot of value in fishing in UFA, as there should be some good deals to be had with players who prefer to sign short-term deals in the hope that the cap will rise 2-3 years from now.
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May 24, 2020 at 12:22 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: Richard88
Jost isn't a bust. He's already played over 200 NHL games and at 22 he still has plenty of potential to improve.

Players like Puljujarvi and Lias Anderson who got drafted higher than Jost are what one could classify as busts, because right now they aren't even serviceable NHLers.


Sorry, he was the 8th overall pick, has over 200 NHL games and has shown nothing better than a 3rd liner. He's definitely better than Pulji or Andersson so far. He doesn't have much value though.
May 24, 2020 at 5:23 a.m.
#13
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John 3 16
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Sorry, he was the 8th overall pick, has over 200 NHL games and has shown nothing better than a 3rd liner. He's definitely better than Pulji or Andersson so far. He doesn't have much value though.


Jost was the 10th overall pick. And compared to every 10th overall pick since 1996 Jost is actually 9th in terms of scoring (0.35ppg) already at age 22. Only TWO 10th overall picks have scored over 0.6ppg (Rantanen and Anisimov), and only Rantanen has hit 0.7ppg.

Easy to forget that Jost is still only 22, and even a marginal improvement from 0.35ppg to around 0.5ppg player would put him at 5th among ALL the 10th overall picks since 1996.

Needless to say, either expectations are wrong or you're just being really harsh. Jost is not a bust. At the very least he's a career 3rd liner with solid defense, but he still has potential to become a 2nd liner if he improves his shot accuracy among other adjustments that can be made year-on-year.
May 24, 2020 at 5:25 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Richard88
Jost was the 10th overall pick. And compared to every 10th overall pick since 1996 Jost is actually 9th in terms of scoring (0.35ppg) already at age 22. Only TWO 10th overall picks have scored over 0.6ppg (Rantanen and Anisimov), and only Rantanen has hit 0.7ppg.

Easy to forget that Jost is still only 22, and even a marginal improvement from 0.35ppg to around 0.5ppg player would put him at 5th among ALL the 10th overall picks since 1996.

Needless to say, either expectations are wrong or you're just being really harsh. Jost is not a bust. At the very least he's a career 3rd liner with solid defense, but he still has potential to become a 2nd liner if he improves his shot accuracy among other adjustments that can be made year-on-year.


I think at this point he'd be more valuable to Colorado than what they could get for him. If you think he really has potential to be a 2nd line center, you'd be better off holding onto him.
May 24, 2020 at 6:58 a.m.
#15
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John 3 16
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Quoting: HabsForEver
I think at this point he'd be more valuable to Colorado than what they could get for him. If you think he really has potential to be a 2nd line center, you'd be better off holding onto him.


He's shown that he can be a 2C in spurts. For example after the trade deadline when Avs had injury issues Jost got top 6 minutes and got 7 points in 9 games while playing well defensively as well. He also looked great in the playoffs against San Jose. Not banking on it, but it's not impossible that he can become a solid 2C in the future.
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