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Forums/Armchair-GM

Advanced Stats Overrated and Under rated defensemen

Created by: firezfurx
Team: 2019-20 Custom Team
Initial Creation Date: May 25, 2020
Published: May 25, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Left side is over rated. Right side is under rated.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/toronto-maple-leafs-advanced-statistics/#leafsreport
I know it's a leafs website but they have done a good job with their database and giving a final score for players.
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
14$81,500,000$50,613,333$0$0$30,886,667
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,025,000$4,025,000
RD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$2,050,000$2,050,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$700,000$700,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Islanders
$1,450,000$1,450,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Florida Panthers
$1,600,000$1,600,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Winnipeg Jets
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$11,000,000$11,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Rangers
$8,000,000$8,000,000
RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$9,000,000$9,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender

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May 25, 2020 at 1:36 a.m.
#1
Dubas isnt a genius
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Didn't mean to have a leafs biased. Just had to include Holl/Muzzin/Dermott for their unbelievable shot suppression... was a little shocked how good Dermott's was especially.
May 25, 2020 at 1:52 a.m.
#2
Isles7
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I can see dermott and Holl as slightly underrated , but muzzin is recognized as a solid top 4 D man, his 5 v 5 play dropped off a bit this season but he’s still a very good two way D. Barrie is overrated.
May 25, 2020 at 3:00 a.m.
#3
mokumboi
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Erm...
May 25, 2020 at 5:21 a.m.
#4
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I don’t get it I’d take all of the left plz
May 25, 2020 at 6:49 a.m.
#5
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Pesce isn't overrated, he's just that good. Everyone else I agree with, I don't think Muzzin is underrated and Barrie is VERY overrated, but I agree with the rest
May 25, 2020 at 8:15 a.m.
#6
V5 ANA and BOG
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Pesce isn't overrated, he's just that good. Everyone else I agree with, I don't think Muzzin is underrated and Barrie is VERY overrated, but I agree with the rest


Nah I think Pesce has been talked up so much over the last couple years to the point where he is a bit overrated. But yeah don't understand how Barrie got on the left side
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May 25, 2020 at 8:19 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: NR1203
Nah I think Pesce has been talked up so much over the last couple years to the point where he is a bit overrated. But yeah don't understand how Barrie got on the left side


There's a case to be made Pesce is a top 10 RD man league-wide.... he's not overrated, I actually think he's still SO underrated
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May 25, 2020 at 8:58 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: NR1203
Nah I think Pesce has been talked up so much over the last couple years to the point where he is a bit overrated. But yeah don't understand how Barrie got on the left side


Nah, you still see far to many Kap/Johnsson+2021 pick for Pesce trades, and far too many leafs fans crying about that being a horrible overpay... Maybe I just see too many leafs posts tho....
May 25, 2020 at 8:58 a.m.
#9
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This has to be a 1yr sample right...? That's the only possible way Pesce could possibly be overrated...
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May 25, 2020 at 9:01 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: AFOX10900
This has to be a 1yr sample right...? That's the only possible way Pesce could possibly be overrated...


He didn't even have a bad year, he just had to babysit Joel Edmundson
May 25, 2020 at 9:03 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: Caniac2000
He didn't even have a bad year, he just had to babysit Joel Edmundson


His RAPM fell off hard, but I think the op is using some kind of microstat, idk I didn't click the link lol
May 25, 2020 at 9:04 a.m.
#12
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Based on one year I guess
May 25, 2020 at 9:06 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: AFOX10900
His RAPM fell off hard, but I think the op is using some kind of microstat, idk I didn't click the link lol


Oh, I was looking at his xG on Hockeyviz, it takes a BIG hit when you put him with Edmundson, offensively and defensively.
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May 25, 2020 at 9:20 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Oh, I was looking at his xG on Hockeyviz, it takes a BIG hit when you put him with Edmundson, offensively and defensively.


Yeah, Edmondson will do that
May 25, 2020 at 9:40 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Yeah, Edmondson will do that


Dude is just.... bad. I don't understand why people like him as a player, or why they want to sign him to multi-year, multi million dollar contracts in the off-season...
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May 25, 2020 at 11:02 a.m.
#16
Thread Starter
Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: NR1203
Nah I think Pesce has been talked up so much over the last couple years to the point where he is a bit overrated. But yeah don't understand how Barrie got on the left side


Well I think everyone see's Barrie as a complete defensive liability when in fact that simply isn't true.
May 25, 2020 at 11:04 a.m.
#17
Thread Starter
Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Caniac2000
He didn't even have a bad year, he just had to babysit Joel Edmundson


Quoting: Caniac2000
Dude is just.... bad. I don't understand why people like him as a player, or why they want to sign him to multi-year, multi million dollar contracts in the off-season...


Quoting: AFOX10900
Yeah, Edmondson will do that



This year his xGa REL TM was in the 7th percentile.... I understand how bad Edmunson is bad that is a statistic that takes into account the the players he plays with. All of his other stats are really really good, but his xGa sucks.
May 25, 2020 at 11:18 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: firezfurx
This year his xGa REL TM was in the 7th percentile.... I understand how bad Edmunson is bad that is a statistic that takes into account the the players he plays with. All of his other stats are really really good, but his xGa sucks.


Pesce was about 0.5 STDs above average in RAPM xGA/60 in 17-20, but was like top 5 in 16-19 iirc
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May 25, 2020 at 12:15 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: AFOX10900
Pesce was about 0.5 STDs above average in RAPM xGA/60 in 17-20, but was like top 5 in 16-19 iirc


This is the Edmunson affect
May 25, 2020 at 12:18 p.m.
#20
GM CRIME DAWG
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Great to see advanced fancy stats used for GOOD instead of EVIL!
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May 25, 2020 at 12:45 p.m.
#21
Thread Starter
Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Pesce isn't overrated, he's just that good. Everyone else I agree with, I don't think Muzzin is underrated and Barrie is VERY overrated, but I agree with the rest


Accoriding to his REL defensive stats Muzzin is amazing. He gets treated like a 2nd pairing defensemen although his stats point to him being elite.
May 25, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: firezfurx
Accoriding to his REL defensive stats Muzzin is amazing. He gets treated like a 2nd pairing defensemen although his stats point to him being elite.


Oh, defensively Muzzin is a stud. He really did babysit that LA Kings defence for years. However, I think, at least the people I talk to, realise how good he is. He's not the calibre of someone like Hedman, or Slavin, but he's a damn fine D man.
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May 25, 2020 at 12:51 p.m.
#23
Thread Starter
Dubas isnt a genius
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Oh, defensively Muzzin is a stud. He really did babysit that LA Kings defence for years. However, I think, at least the people I talk to, realise how good he is. He's not the calibre of someone like Hedman, or Slavin, but he's a damn fine D man.


At first when that extension was signed I thought Dubas had made a big mistake but now realizing it his contract is 1m+ below market value. That left side will hopefully carry the Leafs defense next year. Holl is also a legitimate top 4 RHD with his stellar defensive stats, and you can point to him playing with Muzzin as the reasoning but he also made Muzzin better throughout the year. Dermott is also quite good. Although most don't consider him a DFD or even a TWD his xGa backs it up.
May 27, 2020 at 12:07 p.m.
#24
V5 ANA and BOG
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Quoting: Caniac2000
There's a case to be made Pesce is a top 10 RD man league-wide.... he's not overrated, I actually think he's still SO underrated


I'm not saying he isn't good and if I were the Leafs I'd trade Nylander for him without thinking twice. But lots of canes fans on here were saying he is worth Marner (back when everyone was talking abt Pesce to the Leafs) which simply isn't true
May 27, 2020 at 12:14 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: NR1203
I'm not saying he isn't good and if I were the Leafs I'd trade Nylander for him without thinking twice. But lots of canes fans on here were saying he is worth Marner (back when everyone was talking abt Pesce to the Leafs) which simply isn't true


At the time, Marner wasn't held in the same prestige he is now. He had a little more value than Nylander, which I thought was fair. Since then, he has exploded and signed a contract that is very unflattering, so I doubt anyone trades for him.
 
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