Fair value

The reason we like Marner is he is 23. Ellis is 30. This limits our window to compete massively. Hard no at least from me.

For an awful d-man, a guy who'll never be more than a number 4 d-man and an elite 1RW you get an (almost) 1st rounder, 2 3rd liners and an elite RD-man who can do everything

Agreed, plus Leafs don't need another Norris finalist to complete the group. Dermott or a bit better paired with Rielly is enough.

Do you think he will be elite in 5 years because I can guarantee you Marner will. Marner is already a top-5 RW in this league. This just doesn't sit well with me.

Ellis will easily be a top pairing d-man in 5 years. Easily.

No I said top-5 in the NHL. The rest of the packages on both sides won't matter, crap in crap out you know how it is.

I'm focused on the Marner/Ellis part of the deal, and Marner is better right now, 6 years younger, and will certainly be better in a few years.

Well for a start Ellis isn't in the top 5 RD-men in the league who are (IMO) Petro, Carlson, Hamilton, Jones and Weber... Makar will definitely be there next year tho

But Marner is a top-5 RW: Pasta, Kucherov, Kane, Stone, Marner

That's the problem with this trade

Jarnkork+Watson+NJ's2020 2nd rounder>>>Dermott and Marincin tho

It makes up for the difference IMO

Oooof ok phew I just went back to see your post I thought you didn't mention Kane in the top 5 RWingers...

BTW I take Rantanen before Marner because of his physical play...

More people put Marner ahead btw.

I'll break down the other pacakge: 2nd = Dermott + Marincin

So basically you get an aging top-15(maybe?) RHD for a SUPER young top-5 RW. You see where I'm coming from?

I totally see that and that's why I'd prefer to move Nylander as i said on your post

Really a 23 year old superstar forward for a 29 year old defenceman who has been a #2 or #3 in his career is fair value. You have to be a troll, you never make a trade like this. Marner is only getting better, he's much more valuable than Ellis and considering there age difference this is even more heavily screwing the Leafs.

Dermott is so much closer in value to Ellis than This while package us to Marner. Ellis is too old to get a return like this from anyone beyond maybe Lou. You never trade a player's best years for a guy who's best years are behind him. Ellis is pushing 30, he will now look good in 3 years compared to his contract.

That is just shuffling deck chairs though while Mariners value is way higher than Ellis.

Not even sure trading Nylander for Ellis is worth it. The reasoning is still the same... trading a younger forward with his best years ahead of him while getting a D in Ellis where his best years are behind him.

The thing is..if these players were closer in age, I could see adding more to get Ellis but that's not the case and so it's really not a good trade for the Leafs.

Trading Marner would be the worst trade the leafs have in their history and there have been A LOT of bad trades