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Sell high with eye on expansion

Created by: ImACashew10
Team: 2020-21 Colorado Avalanche
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 13, 2020
Published: Jun. 13, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Can’t imagine Sakic wants to trade Graves, but they have plenty of depth on the left side and they’ll have tough decisions to make as far as who to protect in the expansion draft.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$4,250,000
6$6,000,000
2$3,000,000
1$3,000,000
1$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,000,000
Trades
COL
  1. Domi, Max [RFA Rights]
  2. 2020 6th round pick (MTL)
MTL
  1. Graves, Ryan [RFA Rights]
  2. Jost, Tyson [RFA Rights]
  3. Kamenev, Vladislav [RFA Rights]
  4. 2021 3rd round pick (COL)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the COL
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the COL
2021
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
2022
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the COL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,018,095$0$5,425,000$2,481,905
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,571,429$5,571,429
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,300,000$6,300,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$9,250,000$9,250,000
RW, C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$4,250,000$4,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
$6,000,000$6,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,900,000$3,900,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,850,000$2,850,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$1,800,000$1,800,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
RW
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 7
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,333,333$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,450,000$3,450,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$2,000,000$2,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$925,000$925,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1

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Jun. 13, 2020 at 12:08 p.m.
#1
v5 CBJ GM
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We have left side depth, but I think we make this trade mid-season to see how good Graves does next season.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 12:22 p.m.
#2
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that's selling low on Domi …
Graves #5 dman who needs to show more
Jost is a 3rd liner with middle six upside
Kamenev 13th forward
3rd rd pick …

Pretty bad return
Jun. 13, 2020 at 12:33 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: GMs
that's selling low on Domi …
Graves #5 dman who needs to show more
Jost is a 3rd liner with middle six upside
Kamenev 13th forward
3rd rd pick …

Pretty bad return

Comparisons to what the Avalanche received for Ryan O’Reilly in 2015 when he was about the same age as Max Domi:

Graves = Zadorov
Jost = Grigorenko
Kamenev = Compher
Montreal gets a 3rd instead of a 2nd. The O’Reilly package is arguably better, but the value really isn’t that far off.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 12:47 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: ImACashew10
Comparisons to what the Avalanche received for Ryan O’Reilly in 2015 when he was about the same age as Max Domi:

Graves = Zadorov
Jost = Grigorenko
Kamenev = Compher
Montreal gets a 3rd instead of a 2nd. The O’Reilly package is arguably better, but the value really isn’t that far off.


fast forward and that package is garbage. so why would we sell low on him
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:10 p.m.
#5
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On no planet does Domi come to the Avs and play center. Kadri is the 2C, until Newhook is ready, his contribution to the Avs this season hasn’t been given the credit he is due.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:19 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: GMs
that's selling low on Domi …
Graves #5 dman who needs to show more
Jost is a 3rd liner with middle six upside
Kamenev 13th forward
3rd rd pick …

Pretty bad return

That’s not an unfair assessment (except for the bad return part). However let’s put the shoe on the other foot. Domi has 2 seasons where he has more than 50pts. Both seasons he had career high shooting percentages, saw top line minutes and was on PP1. On the Avs he is a 2nd line winger NOT center much less playing on the 1st line. He isn’t on PP1, and as such his total TOI is reflective of that.

Sometimes players are worth more than what they fetch in trade. Graves with the Avs isn’t a #5 he is top 4 and more importantly a good partner for Makar. Domi with MTL gets more high quality offensive minutes.
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Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:24 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Xqb15
That’s not an unfair assessment (except for the bad return part). However let’s put the shoe on the other foot. Domi has 2 seasons where he has more than 50pts. Both seasons he had career high shooting percentages, saw top line minutes and was on PP1. On the Avs he is a 2nd line winger NOT center much less playing on the 1st line. He isn’t on PP1, and as such his total TOI is reflective of that.

Sometimes players are worth more than what they fetch in trade. Graves with the Avs isn’t a #5 he is top 4 and more importantly a good partner for Makar. Domi with MTL gets more high quality offensive minutes.


Get your fact straight tho, Domi never had 1st line minute ( tatar-danault-gallagher ), after Domi wont be trade to play LW in another team, he wants to play Center and that's why we are trading him since Suzuki is a good 2C already. We dont want to pay Domi 6M to play on the 3rd line LIKE HE DID LAST YEAR. He was playing on the 3rd line with Lehkonen and Cousins/Weal. Still manage to do 40 points with these guys. Domi getting trade means the team acquiring him will make him play 1C or 2C. If Domi was welling to play LW we will 100% keep him, so we might move Suzuki to the RW since he wants so bad to play Center
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:25 p.m.
#8
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Also to every team and ACGM on CF. Stop being afraid of the expansion draft. Teams can lose 1 player, ONE, and that’s a guy that at best your team ranks as the 2nd best goalie, 4th best dman, 8th best forward, or 9th best skater. Those aren’t core guys, lose one and move on.
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Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:34 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Xqb15
Also to every team and ACGM on CF. Stop being afraid of the expansion draft. Teams can lose 1 player, ONE, and that’s a guy that at best your team ranks as the 2nd best goalie, 4th best dman, 8th best forward, or 9th best skater. Those aren’t core guys, lose one and move on.

You’ve doubled down on one poor argument (we already have Kadri so we don’t need another center) with another one.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:37 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: GMs
Get your fact straight tho, Domi never had 1st line minute ( tatar-danault-gallagher ), after Domi wont be trade to play LW in another team, he wants to play Center and that's why we are trading him since Suzuki is a good 2C already. We dont want to pay Domi 6M to play on the 3rd line LIKE HE DID LAST YEAR. He was playing on the 3rd line with Lehkonen and Cousins/Weal. Still manage to do 40 points with these guys. Domi getting trade means the team acquiring him will make him play 1C or 2C. If Domi was welling to play LW we will 100% keep him, so we might move Suzuki to the RW since he wants so bad to play Center


3rd line guys don’t play 17+ minute total TOI, and the only forwards on MTL that had more PP time were Kovalchuk and Drouin who neither played 30 games. The only forwards who averaged more TOI were Danault and Armia. You can scream he played on the 3rd line by his playing time says something else.
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Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:38 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: GMs
Get your fact straight tho, Domi never had 1st line minute ( tatar-danault-gallagher ), after Domi wont be trade to play LW in another team, he wants to play Center and that's why we are trading him since Suzuki is a good 2C already. We dont want to pay Domi 6M to play on the 3rd line LIKE HE DID LAST YEAR. He was playing on the 3rd line with Lehkonen and Cousins/Weal. Still manage to do 40 points with these guys. Domi getting trade means the team acquiring him will make him play 1C or 2C. If Domi was welling to play LW we will 100% keep him, so we might move Suzuki to the RW since he wants so bad to play Center


Numbering the lines doesn't mean anything. You can say he played 3rd line mins all you want but he was the 4th highest forward in toi (3rd highest if you exclude kovalchuk who only played 22 games, and only 8 seconds per game behind armia for 2nd). He got the most PP toi of all MTL forwards and didn't play on the PK at all.
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Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:39 p.m.
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Quoting: Xqb15
3rd line guys don’t play 17+ minute total TOI, and the only forwards on MTL that had more PP time were Kovalchuk and Drouin who neither played 30 games. The only forwards who averaged more TOI were Danault and Armia. You can scream he played on the 3rd line by his playing time says something else.


He was playing a lot on the PP I dont denied that, but he was playing 3C this year ( played 2C with Drouin the first 20-25 games, before both Drouin Byron went out )
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:40 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: moli92
Numbering the lines doesn't mean anything. You can say he played 3rd line mins all you want but he was the 4th highest forward in toi (3rd highest if you exclude kovalchuk who only played 22 games, and only 8 seconds per game behind armia for 2nd). He got the most PP toi of all MTL forwards and didn't play on the PK at all.


Like I said above he played a lot on the PP, but didn't play with great offensive forward at 5vs5
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:42 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: ImACashew10
You’ve doubled down on one poor argument (we already have Kadri so we don’t need another center) with another one.

So my argument with Kadri, the Avs being top 5 in the league in pts, GF, GA, and 5v5 production, Is a poor one? Glad you aren’t making decisions for the Avs.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:48 p.m.
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Quoting: GMs
He was playing a lot on the PP I dont denied that, but he was playing 3C this year ( played 2C with Drouin the first 20-25 games, before both Drouin Byron went out )


And that’s my point. He isn’t playing center at all on the Avs with MacK, Kadri, Compher, PEB, Jost (if he isn’t traded), and prospects Newhook and Bowers coming. He isn’t playing on PP1 with the Avs. And the way Bednar uses wings not named Landeskog and Rantanen he would be destined for 15-16 minutes with Avs.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 1:53 p.m.
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Quoting: Xqb15
So my argument with Kadri, the Avs being top 5 in the league in pts, GF, GA, and 5v5 production, Is a poor one? Glad you aren’t making decisions for the Avs.

I never argued that Kadri isn’t good 5v5... what I am arguing is that having good center depth is important, and even if Kadri is technically their 3C that gives them tremendous depth. And even if he’s their 3C on opening night there’s a good chance he ends up spending nights as the 2C if/when someone is injured. Say, just for arguments sake, Burakovsky gets injured. Domi kicks over to LW, Kadri moves up to 2C, Compher moves to 3C and then someone scratched breaks into the lineup. It’s about maximizing the value of your assets in order to college good, movable chess pieces. Not “how pretty does the lineup look on opening night”.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 3:12 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Xqb15
And that’s my point. He isn’t playing center at all on the Avs with MacK, Kadri, Compher, PEB, Jost (if he isn’t traded), and prospects Newhook and Bowers coming. He isn’t playing on PP1 with the Avs. And the way Bednar uses wings not named Landeskog and Rantanen he would be destined for 15-16 minutes with Avs.


so sending Domi to COL doesn't makes senses then, end of the conversation @ImACashew10
Jun. 13, 2020 at 4:06 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: ImACashew10
I never argued that Kadri isn’t good 5v5... what I am arguing is that having good center depth is important, and even if Kadri is technically their 3C that gives them tremendous depth. And even if he’s their 3C on opening night there’s a good chance he ends up spending nights as the 2C if/when someone is injured. Say, just for arguments sake, Burakovsky gets injured. Domi kicks over to LW, Kadri moves up to 2C, Compher moves to 3C and then someone scratched breaks into the lineup. It’s about maximizing the value of your assets in order to college good, movable chess pieces. Not “how pretty does the lineup look on opening night”.


I agree having good center depth is important, VERY important. But the Avs are set at C now and for the foreseeable future it’s the one area they are set at. If Domi were traded to the Avs he is playing wing on the 2nd line with Kadri as the C. Hell given Bednar’s penchant for mixing lines he probably see’s time with MacKinnon. But he isn’t a center. Through his career the majority of his starts are in the offensive zone (that’s not happening in Colorado). Kadri with majority of his starts being in the defensive zone has produced at basically the same rate offensively and been significantly better defensively (just check CF% and rCF). On top of all that Kadri cost less.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 5:44 p.m.
#19
John 3 16
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Delete
Jun. 13, 2020 at 5:45 p.m.
#20
John 3 16
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Graves has absolutely been a top 4D this season, no doubt about it. His good play also stretches back to his 26 games in the 2018/19 season as well so he's not a flash in the pan.

HB Analytics
@HBAnalytica
Defenseman player card: Ryan Graves
Graves is a rare talent in that he's an elite defensive defender with a fantastic shot. He's excellent at defending the blue line, but is considerably weak in the neutral zone and on the penalty-kill #GoAvsGo
3:30 PM · Jun 8, 2020

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Those stats are particularly impressive since he played some heavy minutes against opponent's top lines, along with the top PK unit, and still led the league in +/-.

11 goal and 31 point pace without PP time is nothing to sniff at either.
Jun. 13, 2020 at 5:51 p.m.
#21
John 3 16
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That's a good trade return on Domi for Montreal.

They get a young and cheap top 4LHD; a young 3C with 2nd line upside; a young reclamation C; and a 3rd round pick, for a guy who only topped 18 goals once and 52 points twice while getting good offensive minutes (i.e. career 16:54 ATOI and 53.7 oZS%). That isn't to disparage Domi as I think he's a good player, but rather just to provide some perspective on his value.
 
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