OOF CANES DECLINE.....

Carolina GM makes one of those Steve Carrell laughs and hangs up.

Carolina and blocks Dubas number.

I think NSH would have to take that

Can we please put the Pesce to TO nonsense to bed. And also trading Andersen from TO this off season and also trading any of the big 4 and Rielly. All of those things are almost certainly never going to happen. Lets just end the madness, I am so tired of hearing the Caniac2000 dude say Pesce is worth 14 first rounders and Matthews and TO has to retain 50% of everyones salary because he has the worst xG% on the Canes.

Svech for Marner is a wash, if not Svech having more value. Lilly and the picks do not get Pesce, let alone everything else.

Not my fault you don't know Pesce's value. He's worth what he's worth. Don't like it? We'll keep him

Keep him then. I realize this package is not quite fair. It's not terrible though. I would guess change the 2nd to a 1st.

Svech is awesome but you're kidding yourself if you think he tops out higher then Marner.

He's in the 7th percentile for xGa TM REL. That is worse then Ceci, worse then Sandin, and comparable to Liljegren. I get his playstyle doesn't look great from an analytics perspective but 7th percentile is ****ing atrocious.

You're kidding yourself if you think he doesn't. 19 years old at a PPG? Dude is going to be an Art Ross candidate in the future if he keeps developing the way he is.

Defensive market is undervalued nowadays. It's all about the point value which is unfortunate.

We'll keep him then. This is horrible for Carolina!

You'd think a team THIS desperate for defence would recognise it's value

Look at his stats from last year, I've told you this. Edmundson is a defensive blackhole. Pesce is an analytical darling, when he's not playing on his own defensively.

Last year he was better, but still not worth Nylander. It worries me that he can't play well without a good defensive partner. It makes me think he's a product of your incredible defense.

Also Edmunson is fine from an analytics view. This year his defense was bad, but not nearly as bad as Pesce's was. He got considerably worse this year defensively playing with Pesce. That shouldn't happen if Pesce is an elite defensemen.

Where are you looking to say his analytics aren't that bad??????????????????? Edmundson that is

Carolina says no.

His offense is good but his defense is horrible, not as bad as Pesce though.

Last year he was hovering around average for all defensive stats (31st=55th percentile) maybe a little worse, yet this year when he gets paired with this "elite shutdown defensemen" Pesce his defensive stats dropped off a cliff. (10th-25th percentile).

Who did Pesce mostly play with last year?

I'm mostly just concerned that he is a product of Carolina's defense, it probably isn't the case but it still raises tons of red flags.

Oh, Pesce isn't a product. He played his offside last year with Justin Faulk. Trust me, he's VERY capable of babysitting someone, provided that person is an NHL calibre player (which Edmundson is not) You still didn't answer, where are you getting these stats? Everything I can find (Corsica, Evolving-Hockey,HockeyViz) shows how elite Pesce is.

TM-REL percentiles

Also intresting to note that Faulk went from 19th percentile xGA TM REL last year to 43rd percentile this year. I'm getting increasingly worried.

Faulk's xGA took a major dive when moving from Pesce to Parayko. I'm concerned you're at team stats, not individual. I highly recommend looking at Hockey-viz for the isolated ice impact or Hockeyviz for RAPM, which are both far better indicators than the percentiles.

1 year of Analytics > 4 Years of Analytics?

You are looking at a percentile of 1 season, and it's been a rough season. It's a very small sample size you have to look at the 4 year sample to even get a good amount a sample to compare.

Evolving Hockey is a little better in RAPM for my preference, but HockeyViz is elite when it comes to individual isolated ice impact.

Are you positive on that????