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3 good lines with puljujarvi

Created by: hockeyconnor97
Team: 2020-21 Edmonton Oilers
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 15, 2020
Published: Jun. 15, 2020
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23$81,500,000$80,592,699$341,534$230,000$907,301

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Jun. 15, 2020 at 4:36 p.m.
#1
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Kassian has to play with mcdavid to get value out of that contract and I doubt Pulj plays another game for Edmonton
Jun. 15, 2020 at 4:44 p.m.
#2
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Connor
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Quoting: mhockey91
Kassian has to play with mcdavid to get value out of that contract and I doubt Pulj plays another game for Edmonton


I would think kassian and Puljujarvi would swap on mcdavid's wing and puljujarvi has apparently softened his stance on never returning to EDM.
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Jun. 15, 2020 at 4:53 p.m.
#3
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Is the good 3rd line on a different team?
Jun. 15, 2020 at 4:55 p.m.
#4
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Has Pulj changed his mind about playing for EDM? I havent been following it closely
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:02 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: moli92
Has Pulj changed his mind about playing for EDM? I havent been following it closely


There was a report out of Finland that he may be willing to come back and try again.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
#6
CGY
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There are 15 teams that you can trade Russell to and Ottawa isn't one of them. Why would the AB boy waive to go play for one of the worst teams in the league?
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Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:13 p.m.
#7
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Connor
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Quoting: ItWasIn
There are 15 teams that you can trade Russell to and Ottawa isn't one of them. Why would the AB boy waive to go play for one of the worst teams in the league?


I'm pretty sure he has a 16 team list of teams he would go to, so I did this trade assuming the sens are on that list
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Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:14 p.m.
#8
CGY
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Quoting: hockeyconnor97
I'm pretty sure he has a 16 team list of teams he would go to, so I did this trade assuming the sens are on that list


I would look at CBJ, he started his career there. Maybe you can get Riley Nash, but would have to give a pick or eat some money.

Zack Smith from CHI is another option
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:21 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: mhockey91
Kassian has to play with mcdavid to get value out of that contract and I doubt Pulj plays another game for Edmonton


He scores like a 3rd liner without McDavid... and his contract is pretty typical of a 3rd liner UFA deal. He doesn't HAVE to play with McDavid.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:22 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: moli92
Has Pulj changed his mind about playing for EDM? I havent been following it closely


He was asked if he would consider returning to Edmonton and responded "never say never" apparently.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:25 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: ItWasIn
There are 15 teams that you can trade Russell to and Ottawa isn't one of them. Why would the AB boy waive to go play for one of the worst teams in the league?


Why wouldn't OTT be on his list? They have direct flights several times a day to both Edmonton and Calgary. Much easier to come home than if he lived in (say) Los Angeles or Arizona or Dallas or Minneapolis, despite those places being closer.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:25 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: CD282
He scores like a 3rd liner without McDavid... and his contract is pretty typical of a 3rd liner UFA deal. He doesn't HAVE to play with McDavid.


Kassian sucks without mcdavid. Never cleared 30 points before in Edmonton prior to this year. He needs to play with mcdavid. That’s why they signed him
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:26 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: hockeyconnor97
I'm pretty sure he has a 16 team list of teams he would go to, so I did this trade assuming the sens are on that list


I don't see OTT retaining in this scenario, both players get paid $1.5M for the final year of their contracts so the money is even without retention. Fortunately you have enough cap space to swing the trade without the retention.
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Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:31 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: mhockey91
Kassian sucks without mcdavid. Never cleared 30 points before in Edmonton prior to this year. He needs to play with mcdavid. That’s why they signed him


Stats like CF% and xGF% are pretty much identical for Kassian whether he's with McDavid or not. And that's over a 3 year period.

http://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=EDM&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2018-10-03&td=2020-04-04&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478402&p2=8475178&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0

If McDavid+Puljujarvi get better results (they do) then that's the setup.

http://naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20162017&thruseason=20182019&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=EDM&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-10-04&td=2020-04-04&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8479344&p2=8478402&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:31 p.m.
#15
CGY
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Quoting: CD282
Why wouldn't OTT be on his list? They have direct flights several times a day to both Edmonton and Calgary. Much easier to come home than if he lived in (say) Los Angeles or Arizona or Dallas or Minneapolis, despite those places being closer.


A flight from LA, MIN, ARI are all major international hubs, they fly to AB several times a day and are much closer to AB.

Why would he want to play for Ottawa? He's on a team that could contend, why would he want to go to a lotto team? Anismov does more for Ottawa than Russell would, they could bring Hainsey back for cheaper to fill a Russell role.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 5:37 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: ItWasIn
A flight from LA, MIN, ARI are all major international hubs, they fly to AB several times a day and are much closer to AB.

Why would he want to play for Ottawa? He's on a team that could contend, why would he want to go to a lotto team? Anismov does more for Ottawa than Russell would, they could bring Hainsey back for cheaper to fill a Russell role.


Sure, but he might not have a choice. His NMC stipulates that he must submit a 15-team trade list (if asked) and it's generally though that his list would include all Canadian teams + Western Conference teams in general. Your argument is silly though - the season isn't over and he hasn't been asked to submit a list. How could you possibly know which teams are / are not on a list that doesn't exist?

And we don't know what Dorion wants either. Is the value in the realm of realistic? Because the premise sure is.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 7:01 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: CD282
Sure, but he might not have a choice. His NMC stipulates that he must submit a 15-team trade list (if asked) and it's generally though that his list would include all Canadian teams + Western Conference teams in general. Your argument is silly though - the season isn't over and he hasn't been asked to submit a list. How could you possibly know which teams are / are not on a list that doesn't exist?

And we don't know what Dorion wants either. Is the value in the realm of realistic? Because the premise sure is.


Edmonton needs to add for this trade to work.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 7:58 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: kingsfaninSD
Edmonton needs to add for this trade to work.


Quite likely. Depends on how much Dorion wants a shutdown defenseman i guess.
Jun. 15, 2020 at 8:07 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: kingsfaninSD
Edmonton needs to add for this trade to work.


Quoting: CD282
Quite likely. Depends on how much Dorion wants a shutdown defenseman i guess.


Here's some research on Russell I posted elsewhere:

"Russell is pretty bad at playing NHL-level defense for someone who's touted as being a defensive-minded player."


You present your opinion as fact, on this subject and many others. But does your opinion hold up in the light of day? Let's take a look.

There are 31 teams in the league and each team puts 6 defensemen on the ice every game, meaning that there are 186 regular defense jobs available in the NHL. To get a picture of the 186 most used defensemen at 5v5, you simply set the filter at 550 minutes minimum. So everything we look at here is based on the top 186 "regular" defensemen by 5v5 TOI.

Because the accusation is that Russell can't defend, I'll highlight some of his defensive metrics as per naturalstattrick.com.

CA/60: 56.04 (102nd of 186)
FA/60: 39.03 (32nd)
SA/60: 27.44 (15th)
GA/60: 1.62 (3rd)
HDCA/60: 9.97 (58th)
Def Zone Starts/60: 8.66 (63rd)

What can we deduce from these numbers? His corsi against numbers are about median for top-6 defensemen, giving the lie to your statement that "if you're blocking a lot of shots, it means you're giving up a lot of shots." He does in fact defend a lot, but that's due to coaching decisions to have him out for defensive zone faceoffs more than any Oilers player not named Adam Larsson.

Why do you think a smart coach like Dave Tippett would do that? Because he knows that Russell is actually really good at defending and he trusts him to do that job. I mean, just look at the results: 32nd in the league with unblocked shot attempts against and 15th in the league with shots against. That tells me he was contesting every shot, so that even when he was unable to block the shot his relentless defensive efforts caused the shot to miss the net more often than league average.

And then we come to the actual goals against number, which is nothing short of spectacular. Some of that is on the goalies and some on luck, but his ability to get in front of shots and force forwards to miss the net indicates that a good part of this is on Russell himself.

As much as casual fans on this site love to hate him - even Oilers fans - he is still very much an NHL player whose skills are valued by the men that are paid to coach the greatest game on earth.

And we haven't even mentioned Kris Russell's value on the penalty kill.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/333746&post_id=1477860
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Jun. 15, 2020 at 10:17 p.m.
#20
Kafle
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Quoting: moli92
Has Pulj changed his mind about playing for EDM? I havent been following it closely


A reporter asked him whether he would return to edmonton and he said Never Say never
Jun. 18, 2020 at 7:36 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: CD282
Here's some research on Russell I posted elsewhere:

"Russell is pretty bad at playing NHL-level defense for someone who's touted as being a defensive-minded player."


You present your opinion as fact, on this subject and many others. But does your opinion hold up in the light of day? Let's take a look.

There are 31 teams in the league and each team puts 6 defensemen on the ice every game, meaning that there are 186 regular defense jobs available in the NHL. To get a picture of the 186 most used defensemen at 5v5, you simply set the filter at 550 minutes minimum. So everything we look at here is based on the top 186 "regular" defensemen by 5v5 TOI.

Because the accusation is that Russell can't defend, I'll highlight some of his defensive metrics as per naturalstattrick.com.

CA/60: 56.04 (102nd of 186)
FA/60: 39.03 (32nd)
SA/60: 27.44 (15th)
GA/60: 1.62 (3rd)
HDCA/60: 9.97 (58th)
Def Zone Starts/60: 8.66 (63rd)

What can we deduce from these numbers? His corsi against numbers are about median for top-6 defensemen, giving the lie to your statement that "if you're blocking a lot of shots, it means you're giving up a lot of shots." He does in fact defend a lot, but that's due to coaching decisions to have him out for defensive zone faceoffs more than any Oilers player not named Adam Larsson.

Why do you think a smart coach like Dave Tippett would do that? Because he knows that Russell is actually really good at defending and he trusts him to do that job. I mean, just look at the results: 32nd in the league with unblocked shot attempts against and 15th in the league with shots against. That tells me he was contesting every shot, so that even when he was unable to block the shot his relentless defensive efforts caused the shot to miss the net more often than league average.

And then we come to the actual goals against number, which is nothing short of spectacular. Some of that is on the goalies and some on luck, but his ability to get in front of shots and force forwards to miss the net indicates that a good part of this is on Russell himself.

As much as casual fans on this site love to hate him - even Oilers fans - he is still very much an NHL player whose skills are valued by the men that are paid to coach the greatest game on earth.

And we haven't even mentioned Kris Russell's value on the penalty kill.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/333746&post_id=1477860


I'm not against Russell the player, I have issues justifying his $4 million dollar against the cap. All the stats point to what you are stating, his contract is otherwise, or else why would you want to trade him if he is so defensively? Your answer is always that they need to make room for younger players. So you need to move his contract to let younger players get some ice time and also to remove his cap hit to get better players for wingers. The way next year is looking, the cap will either stay the same or go down. This hurts many teams that didn't plan for this. If this is the case, teams with cap space will have the upper hand in taking on a contract like Russell's...good defensively but getting slower. Other teams are also looking at getting younger players in the lineup because they have a lower cap hit and are faster than some of their counterparts. The game is trending towards speed and agility. So teams you want to trade Russell to will look to see just how bad Edmonton wants to rid them of his contract and get as many assets as they can.
Jun. 19, 2020 at 8:27 a.m.
#22
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Quoting: kingsfaninSD
I'm not against Russell the player, I have issues justifying his $4 million dollar against the cap. All the stats point to what you are stating, his contract is otherwise, or else why would you want to trade him if he is so defensively? Your answer is always that they need to make room for younger players. So you need to move his contract to let younger players get some ice time and also to remove his cap hit to get better players for wingers. The way next year is looking, the cap will either stay the same or go down. This hurts many teams that didn't plan for this. If this is the case, teams with cap space will have the upper hand in taking on a contract like Russell's...

You were doing just fine up to this point. Cap space will be tight in the league because nobody foresaw the cap remaining flat, cap space at a premium, Oilers fans wanting to trade Russell's cap hit to rebalance the roster, etc. I agree with this mostly, the only thing I would point out is that with many teams facing a serious cash shortfall, there will be more teams than ever before that will set internal budgets below the cap limit. As such, a contract like Russell's is actually attractive to those teams as he is only owed $1.5M in cash. Industry insiders are already talking about good players getting traded in the near future for no reason other than their contract terms dictate huge payouts this summer and the organizations don't have the cash.

Quoting: kingsfaninSD
...good defensively but getting slower... younger players in the lineup because they... are faster... The game is trending towards speed and agility.

This is where you get off the rails. Your insinuations that Russell is old and slow couldn't be more wrong. Kris is one of the quickest skaters on the league, he's small but he has great wheels. How do you think he gets in front of so many shots?

Here's what sportsforecaster.com has to say:

Is a tremendous shot-blocking defenseman, which is his best attribute. Plays with confidence with the puck. Also owns enough offensive acumen to play on the power play and moves the puck with aplomb. Has great wheels.

He isn't used on the PP in Edmonton so I can't testify to that claim, but the fact remains that Russell is an above average skater in the NHL.

Quoting: kingsfaninSD
So teams you want to trade Russell to will look to see just how bad Edmonton wants to rid them of his contract and get as many assets as they can.


I'm not even sure Holland will try to move him, he's great defensively and a big part of the 2nd best PK unit in the league.

Anyways, a lot of teams will be facing financial difficulties and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. In regards to Russell though, I think the contract advantage (low salary) and disadvantage (relatively high cap hit) probably cancel each other out. Holland certainly isn't going to spend assets moving Russell along when he only has 1 year left and plays cheap.
Jun. 19, 2020 at 8:18 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: CD282
You were doing just fine up to this point. Cap space will be tight in the league because nobody foresaw the cap remaining flat, cap space at a premium, Oilers fans wanting to trade Russell's cap hit to rebalance the roster, etc. I agree with this mostly, the only thing I would point out is that with many teams facing a serious cash shortfall, there will be more teams than ever before that will set internal budgets below the cap limit. As such, a contract like Russell's is actually attractive to those teams as he is only owed $1.5M in cash. Industry insiders are already talking about good players getting traded in the near future for no reason other than their contract terms dictate huge payouts this summer and the organizations don't have the cash.


This is where you get off the rails. Your insinuations that Russell is old and slow couldn't be more wrong. Kris is one of the quickest skaters on the league, he's small but he has great wheels. How do you think he gets in front of so many shots?

Here's what sportsforecaster.com has to say:

Is a tremendous shot-blocking defenseman, which is his best attribute. Plays with confidence with the puck. Also owns enough offensive acumen to play on the power play and moves the puck with aplomb. Has great wheels.

He isn't used on the PP in Edmonton so I can't testify to that claim, but the fact remains that Russell is an above average skater in the NHL.



I'm not even sure Holland will try to move him, he's great defensively and a big part of the 2nd best PK unit in the league.

Anyways, a lot of teams will be facing financial difficulties and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. In regards to Russell though, I think the contract advantage (low salary) and disadvantage (relatively high cap hit) probably cancel each other out. Holland certainly isn't going to spend assets moving Russell along when he only has 1 year left and plays cheap.


This is where you go off the rails. So many teams are scrambling trying to figure out how they are going to sign their players and still have enough room to get better (Tampa, Toronto) that teams with cap space can take calls from Holland and say hold on, let me get back to you. Montreal and Ottawa have what these teams are looking for...cap space and draft picks. The amount owed might not be a huge factor if games start playing next season in front of fans. The $4 million per year is the biggest stumbling block.
 
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