Forums/Armchair-GM

Interesting

Created by: ZiggyPalffy
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 20, 2020
Published: Jun. 20, 2020
Team: 2021-22 Buffalo Sabres
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Dahlin, Rasmus8$8,000,000
Kahun, Dominik3$2,000,000
Reinhart, Sam7$5,750,000
Olofsson, Victor5$5,000,000
Jokiharju, Henri3$1,500,000
Lazar, Curtis3$1,200,000
Mittelstadt, Casey2$900,000
Montour, Brandon5$3,500,000
Pilut, Lawrence2$750,000
Thompson, Tage2$750,000
Asplund, Rasmus2$800,000
Fitzgerald, Casey2$800,000
Domi, Max7$5,500,000
Walker, Sean4$2,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Brodin, Jonas7$5,000,000
Iafallo, Alex5$3,750,000
Thompson, Nate1$750,000
Holtby, Braden3$7,000,000
Trades
1.
BUF
    ANA
    1. Okposo, Kyle
    Additional Details:
    CBO 2020
    2.
    BUF
    1. Kapanen, Kasperi
    TOR
    1. Montour, Brandon
    3.
    BUF
    1. 2021 2nd round pick (DAL)
    2. 2022 2nd round pick (DAL)
    DAL
    1. Miller, Colin
    4.
    BUF
    1. Walker, Sean [RFA Rights]
    Additional Details:
    Sign and Trade: Iafallo 3.75M x 5 years.
    LAK
    1. 2021 1st round pick (BUF)
    5.
    BUF
    1. Domi, Max [RFA Rights]
    MTL
    1. Mittelstadt, Casey
    2. Ruotsalainen, Arttu
    3. 2020 2nd round pick (BUF)
    4. 2021 2nd round pick (BUF)
    Buyouts
    • Cody Hodgson: $791,667
    • Christian Ehrhoff: $0
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2020
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the DAL
    2021
    Logo of the DAL
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    2022
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the DAL
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    Logo of the BUF
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    24$84,500,000$88,617,250$113,916$1,065,000-$4,117,250

    Roster

    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the BUF
    Skinner, Jeff
    $9,000,000
    LW, RW
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the BUF
    Eichel, Jack
    $10,000,000
    C
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the BUF
    Reinhart, Sam
    $5,750,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 3
    Iafallo, Alex
    $3,750,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 4
    Domi, Max
    $5,500,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the BUF
    Olofsson, Victor
    $5,000,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the BUF
    Kahun, Dominik
    $2,000,000
    LW, RW, C
    UFA
    Logo of the BUF
    Cozens, Dylan
    $894,167
    C, LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Kapanen, Kasperi
    $3,200,000
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the BUF
    Asplund, Rasmus
    $800,000
    LW, C
    RFA - 2
    Thompson, Nate
    $750,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the BUF
    Lazar, Curtis
    $1,200,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the BUF
    Dahlin, Rasmus
    $8,000,000
    LD/RD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the BUF
    Jokiharju, Henri
    $1,500,000
    RD
    RFA - 3
    Holtby, Braden
    $7,000,000
    G
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    Brodin, Jonas
    $5,000,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the BUF
    Ristolainen, Rasmus
    $5,400,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Holtby, Braden
    $7,000,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the BUF
    Samuelsson, Mattias
    $925,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Walker, Sean
    $2,000,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the BUF
    Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka
    $778,333
    G
    RFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the BUF
    Thompson, Tage
    $750,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the BUF
    Pekar, Matej
    $764,167
    C, RW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the BUF
    Pilut, Lawrence
    $750,000
    LD
    UFA

    Special Teams

    Power Play 1
    Iafallo, A.
    Eichel, J.
    Reinhart, S.
    Dahlin, R.
    Olofsson, V.
    Power Play 2
    Domi, M.
    Cozens, D.
    Kapanen, K.
    Skinner, J.
    Ristolainen, R.
    Penalty Kill 1
    Eichel, J.
    Reinhart, S.
    Dahlin, R.
    Jokiharju, H.
    Penalty Kill 2
    Domi, M.
    Iafallo, A.
    Brodin, J.
    Ristolainen, R.

    Embed Code

    • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
    • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

    Text-Embed

    Click to Highlight
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:41 p.m.
    #126
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    Ad hominem attacks are garbage, no matter who they came from. Attack the idea, not the person.

    I'm happy to talk hockey and rebut ideas (hence my post), but I'm not getting involved in the name calling.


    ah cool you've taken logic classes... i didn't even think to look back at those class notes for an AGM post haha
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:41 p.m.
    #127
    Shibbal18
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2016
    Posts: 22,461
    Likes: 7,320
    Quoting: Bf3351
    Or just Skinner/Olofsson.


    Olofsson Reinhart, Eichels line mates, were both on 70+ paces
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:42 p.m.
    #128
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 15,594
    Likes: 5,535
    Quoting: Bf3351
    What garbage and/or who is garbage?


    lol
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:42 p.m.
    #129
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    except, that like i said he's played at a 2nd line level, why does Kapanen get crapped on because his team but Montour gets to rise above his? Older soon to be UFA guys coming off bad seasons are worth significantly less than young guys with term coming off decent seasons where they produce at a high 2nd liner level while playing with guys like Kerfoot, Engvall and worse for large stretches of the year.
    And if Kapanen gets 2 years of play, then he also gets the previous season where h is a 20 goal scorer with decent defensive numbers, and the fact that he can play both the power play and the PK as a very good counter attacker.
    He is hilariously under rated here as seen by the fact that apparently he's at best a 'fringe' 2nd pairing guy. and has less value than a guy who was the 5th best defender at best on the buffalo friggen sabres


    so is your argument about not wanting montour or over valuing kapanen?

    would you do the 1 for 1 for manson? does montour's one bad year scare you off?
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:42 p.m.
    #130
    Shibbal18
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2016
    Posts: 22,461
    Likes: 7,320
    Quoting: Lsendel3
    I gave you the stat. 9th best 5v5 Ga. do with it what you will. Buf D isn’t the problem. PK and lack of secondary scoring is


    I as well gave him that stat way earlier
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:43 p.m.
    #131
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2016
    Posts: 10,417
    Likes: 4,611
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    I would, a 7 game stretch is nothing. Crappy players go on 7-10 game stretches all the time where they look very good. He's been very poor the bulk of 2 seasons and him recovering any sort of starter look would be more miracle than anything.


    I would agree that a 7-game stretch isn't necessarily indicative of a player's overall quality, but if you re-read my post, you'll see that he's been playing exceptional hockey since mid-December. That's significantly more than 7 games.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:44 p.m.
    #132
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    Ad hominem attacks are garbage, no matter who they came from. Attack the idea, not the person.

    I'm happy to talk hockey and rebut ideas (hence my post), but I'm not getting involved in the name calling.


    You didn't have to post here. I already explained everything you said to Jared months ago, he doesn't care. He is a certified troll account and doing the same to wqrrior and probably you next on my thread even though I have him on my ignore list. As far as what I said to Shibble, his mind was made up before he even commented so there's really no point in wasting time to change one Sabres fans opinion when a lot of them actually like the idea.

    In case you haven't noticed, this really isn't the place to talk professional, professor. Especially in ACGMs flooded with incompetent Leafs fans.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:44 p.m.
    #133
    Dead inside
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 97
    Likes: 47
    Quoting: Wqrrior
    because that is more than reasonable... anyone who is not a leafs fan knows that's all he is worth.

    (if i said mid-late that was a mistake... i meant high - mid, but still, he is in the 2nd round pick range. I'd say his max value is 35th spot)


    If you think a top 6 winger (if montour is top4 kapanen is definitely top 6) who is signed for a couple more years with reasonable cap hit is worth one second round pick then you haven’t been paying attention to trades happening in real life. Is the guy you’re arguing with acting unreasonable. Yes but so are you
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:45 p.m.
    #134
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: DaveAyersStan
    If you think a top 6 winger (if montour is top4 kapanen is definitely top 6) who is signed for a couple more years with reasonable cap hit is worth one second round pick then you haven’t been paying attention to trades happening in real life. Is the guy you’re arguing with acting unreasonable. Yes but so are you


    i don't think kapanen is a top 6 winger... and he isn't. he's a middle six winger. He has never and will never play top line minutes unless its for the purposes of line pairing.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:47 p.m.
    #135
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 15,594
    Likes: 5,535
    Quoting: Wqrrior
    so is your argument about not wanting montour or over valuing kapanen?

    would you do the 1 for 1 for manson? does montour's one bad year scare you off?


    both, Kapanen is notoriously undervalued and thrown in poor value trades (usually with some sort of jab at the leafs cap) and I wouldnt trade Kapanen for Montour for several reasons, one, because his poor season is more referential to the majority if his career than the previous good ones. And he's a RFA whenever this season ends and will demand a significant pay hike.
    Manson has been a strong defender most of his career before his off season, and he has the same term as Kapanen at a decent cap hit. So the value is significantly better.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:48 p.m.
    #136
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: Shibbal18
    Olofsson Reinhart, Eichels line mates, were both on 70+ paces


    Wait so what about Olofsson on a line without Eichel, if that's the case I can say he would have gotten 20-30 points. See how this works?
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:48 p.m.
    #137
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2019
    Posts: 15,594
    Likes: 5,535
    Quoting: Wqrrior
    i don't think kapanen is a top 6 winger... and he isn't. he's a middle six winger. He has never and will never play top line minutes unless its for the purposes of line pairing.


    why does he have to be a top line winger to be a top 6 winger?
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:49 p.m.
    #138
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    both, Kapanen is notoriously undervalued and thrown in poor value trades (usually with some sort of jab at the leafs cap) and I wouldnt trade Kapanen for Montour for several reasons, one, because his poor season is more referential to the majority if his career than the previous good ones. And he's a RFA whenever this season ends and will demand a significant pay hike.
    Manson has been a strong defender most of his career before his off season, and he has the same term as Kapanen at a decent cap hit. So the value is significantly better.


    ok we've established that it's more an issue with the replacement player than the value... manson also had a down year, so i do think they are fairly similar.

    It still stands though that the number of people who overrate Kapanen far exceed those who underrate him.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:49 p.m.
    #139
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2016
    Posts: 10,417
    Likes: 4,611
    Quoting: Bf3351
    You didn't have to post here. I already explained everything you said to Jared months ago, he doesn't care. He is a certified troll account and doing the same to wqrrior and probably you next on my thread even though I have him on my ignore list. As far as what I said to Shibble, his mind was made up before he even commented so there's really no point in wasting time to change one Sabres fans opinion when a lot of them actually like the idea.

    In case you haven't noticed, this really isn't the place to talk professional, professor. Especially in ACGMs flooded with incompetent Leafs fans.


    More people making the same argument carries more weight. I felt compelled to chime in in response to someone saying that Quick sucks and has sucked for years and has no hope of getting better.

    Is "ad hominem" not common knowledge? I thought it was vernacular Latin like "quid pro quo" or "ipso facto". Apparently not.

    Even if he's a troll account, that's fine. Attack his ideas with facts and statistics, and stop sinking to his level and he'll go away. In other words, don't feed the trolls.
    Wqrrior liked this.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:50 p.m.
    #140
    Dead inside
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 97
    Likes: 47
    Quoting: Wqrrior
    i don't think kapanen is a top 6 winger... and he isn't. he's a middle six winger. He has never and will never play top line minutes unless its for the purposes of line pairing.


    He’s a top 40-45 RW in most statistical category’s so if there are 31 teams how is he not top 6. Will he ever be able to play top line minutes for a contender. No but could he play on a contenders second line. Absolutely
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:53 p.m.
    #141
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    why does he have to be a top line winger to be a top 6 winger?


    he plays 3rd line majority and has SOME 2nd line upside. Ideally he is best on the third line. Given those are his two lines, that's where he fits in. A top 6 winger doesn't play the 3rd line majority time... there's a few exceptions, such as Arizona who frequents their better players on the third line for the sake of line pairings, as well as Tampa because of how stacked they are.

    But since Kapanen isn't a majority 2nd liner and has never been a top line player... and his potential isn't really much different from where he is now... he's a middle six forward.

    I feel like you will bring up my previous Iaffalo issue, and how I called him a top 6 forward... but he's not even remotely a similar player type, as he is more well rounded. His skillset is more specialized to play a top 6 role even though their points are about the same... similar to Hyman, who, although is the product of good linemates, has the skillset to handle those minutes and exceed there. I don't see Kapanen as that type of player.

    @DaveAyersStan
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:53 p.m.
    #142
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: DaveAyersStan
    If you think a top 6 winger (if montour is top4 kapanen is definitely top 6) who is signed for a couple more years with reasonable cap hit is worth one second round pick then you haven’t been paying attention to trades happening in real life. Is the guy you’re arguing with acting unreasonable. Yes but so are you


    You lost me at "If Montour is top 4 then Kapanen is definitely top 6" please explain.
    Wqrrior liked this.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:53 p.m.
    #143
    Shibbal18
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2016
    Posts: 22,461
    Likes: 7,320
    Quoting: Bf3351
    Wait so what about Olofsson on a line without Eichel, if that's the case I can say he would have gotten 20-30 points. See how this works?


    Olofsson did play with Johansson and Kahun though, Johansson not even being a decent 2C, and still was producing. So it doesnt work in that situation
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:54 p.m.
    #144
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 8,994
    Likes: 3,369
    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    More people making the same argument carries more weight. I felt compelled to chime in in response to someone saying that Quick sucks and has sucked for years and has no hope of getting better.

    Is "ad hominem" not common knowledge? I thought it was vernacular Latin like "quid pro quo" or "ipso facto". Apparently not.

    Even if he's a troll account, that's fine. Attack his ideas with facts and statistics, and stop sinking to his level and he'll go away. In other words, don't feed the trolls.


    nah i only first learned about it in my university technical writing/logic class
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:55 p.m.
    #145
    Dead inside
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 97
    Likes: 47
    Quoting: Bf3351
    You lost me at "If Montour is top 4 then Kapanen is definitely top 6" please explain.


    I’m not saying montour isnt a top 4 defenceman but he’s pretending Kapanen dosent play 2nd line on like 20 teams
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:57 p.m.
    #146
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    More people making the same argument carries more weight. I felt compelled to chime in in response to someone saying that Quick sucks and has sucked for years and has no hope of getting better.

    Is "ad hominem" not common knowledge? I thought it was vernacular Latin like "quid pro quo" or "ipso facto". Apparently not.

    Even if he's a troll account, that's fine. Attack his ideas with facts and statistics, and stop sinking to his level and he'll go away. In other words, don't feed the trolls.


    Feeding the trolls with facts and statistics is still feeding the trolls and they'll keep coming back for more like he is doing right now.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 4:58 p.m.
    #147
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: DaveAyersStan
    I’m not saying montour isnt a top 4 defenceman but he’s pretending Kapanen dosent play 2nd line on like 20 teams


    20 teams have right wingers better than Kapanen so I think it's more fair to say Kapanen is a 3rd line RW on 20 teams.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 5:01 p.m.
    #148
    Thread Starter
    Banned
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 9,721
    Likes: 2,805
    Quoting: Wqrrior
    nah i only first learned about it in my university technical writing/logic class


    I just learned it just now after googling it lol I didnt know there was a name for that behavior lol
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 5:04 p.m.
    #149
    Dead inside
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 97
    Likes: 47
    Quoting: Bf3351
    20 teams have right wingers better than Kapanen so I think it's more fair to say Kapanen is a 3rd line RW on 20 teams.


    Kapanen was 35th in RW scoring this year while never having consistent line mates because of injuries higher in the lineup but he would play 3rd line for 20 teams putting him at about 80th best RW in the NHL. Sure thing.
    Jun. 20, 2020 at 5:23 p.m.
    #150
    Cope
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jun. 2020
    Posts: 1,060
    Likes: 409
    Quoting: TheLeafsSeason
    Leafs decline and block Adams number. I also think Adam is incapable in attempting to fleece the Leafs.


    not like Toronto is a model organization, they got fleeced in the kadri deal anyways
    ZiggyPalffy liked this.
     
    Reply
    To create a post please Login or Register
    Question:
    Options:
    Add Option
    Submit Poll