Do you think Dubas can call up Jarmo and tell him to look at the public analytics models that show Jones is an average player, and that will convince him to trade him? Or are we just talking hypotheticals in nichushkin > draisaitl world.

points dont mean ****. among all nhl defenseman Jones ranks in the 37th percentile based off his on ice impacts. he also isnt that good in transition and doesnt drive play very well at all. He doesnt provide anything offensively anymore and while he is above league average defensively he still isnt that good defensively

The Leafs haven't had a defenseman as good as Jones since Iafrate.

check out his stats and get back to me. Justin Holl was far better this season and he was the leafs 3rd best defenseman this year

This is obviously a troll haha well done!

Justin Holl?

kind of but its also true

Columbus' record with Jones in the line up: 34-15-9
Columbus' record without Jones in the line up: 3-5-5

Seems like he makes a pretty decent impact on a team that lost its entire top line and starting goalie over last summers break.
Averaged 25.17 min/game with prime Power Play and PK time and is just entering his prime. Correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds like a defense that does everything, Kinda sounds like what Josi and Hedman do.

oilers pass

all the public data available point to jones not being that good and ive been on this train for a few years now. The stats arent close to perfect but its better then absolutely nothing. if the private stats that teams use internally point to jones being good ill admit im wrong.

Then why are you trading for him

And lmao you're playing Holl over him because of course Justin Holl is a first pair D.



Still, CBJ will value him more even if maybe " he isn't that good "

Hilarious

hes a negative on the PP and doesnt provide much at 5v5. CBJ's defense was just as good with jones out of the lineup as it was when he was in. the only difference was that Elvis' sv% sunk so by the things you pointed out Jones should be challenging for the Vezina right?

Oh here it comes.

Some joker on the internet with his fancy stats.

I understand advanced hockey metrics better than most people. There is not a member of this Leafs team that I would not trade for Seth Jones one for one other than Matthews.

You talk like you have some magical eye for interpreting data and predicting developmental growth. Newsflash... you don't dude. You are a Leafs fan on an internet site who overvalues the teams players and tries to use a basic understanding of analytics to sound like you have your finger on the pulse of every player in the NHL and their developmental trajectory.

Give your head a shake man. That is like CBJ offering the Leafs Wennberg + Jenner + Some bust D prospect and a 2nd round pick for Morgan Rielly.

It is just nonsense.

ahhh I see you're a fan of that Jfresh guy on twitter who just released an article that Jones wasnt that good. Analytics are fun when they dont add up to the eye test.

morgan rielly is far better then Jones tho so your argument doesnt make that much sense

nah CBJ fans on here know ive been on the "Jones is overrated" train for a few years now

My god, imagine loosing Artemi Panarin, Matt Duchene and Ryan Dzingel and wondering why your PP suddenly is subpar. How can you possibly say CBJ's defense was just as good without Jones when they went 3-10 after his injury? I honestly can't wait for him to make Toronto's offense look like pushovers this playoffs

Holl has played one season. ONE. He was probably better (analytically) but stats aren't everything. And this is a proof. But keep believing that if you want

Thats fair enough. You would like that article then, check out Jfresh I think is his handle on twitter, he basically argues your same point.

By the logic used by the OP, we don't actually need those offensive pieces, because we already have Bjorkstrand who is an overwhelmingly superior player to Marner in every possible respect.

(Don't get me wrong; Bjorkstrand was definitely our best forward this past season. But there's using advanced stats to inform an evaluation, and then there's using them as a substitute for an evaluation.)

You don't make much sense Jack.

If you cannot admit that this proposal is absolutely out to lunch than you really just don't get it.

I have defended some of your suggestions in the past and we have aligned on opinion more than once. This is just over the top horse****. I think that you know it to be true as well.

Don't get me wrong Seth Jones is an extremely talented player. In the 17-18 season the praise he was getting at the time as one of the best defenceman in the league was warranted because he was performing like one. Since then however, his overall production has been nothing special, average quite honestly. Now I am not saying he can't get back to that level because he certainly can, but as of right now he is no way a so called top 5 defenceman in the league.

Nor should they.