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Mitch Marner vs Prime Phil Kessel

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Team: 2019-20 Custom Team
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 25, 2020
Published: Jun. 25, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Today, I want to do a comparison of two players who have played for Toronto before, and both earned the reputation as being lazy, soft, selfish and a locker room cancer. Both players have been questioned by fans and media for their attitude and commitment to the team, but nonetheless, they are both elite talents.

Phil Kessel is an elite goal scorer with excellent speed. He has scored 371 goals and 861 points in 1066 regular season games (PPG of .807). In the playoffs, he has 33 goals and 77 points in 87 games (PPG of 0.885).

Mitch Marner is a playmaker with good stick-handling and agility. He has 83 goals and 291 points in 300 regular season games (0.97 PPG). In the playoffs, he has 5 goals and 17 points in 20 games (PPG of 0.85)

As for defensive game, Phil Kessel averages 1.1 defensive point shares per season. His best season, he has an expected goals against that ranks in the 50th percentile. Mitch Marner averages 1.5 defensive point shares per season. His best season in expected goals against ranks in the 72nd percentile.

Personally, my vote goes to Kessel, he was able to notch several point per game seasons playing on a poor Toronto team. It's close, however.
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$81,500,000$116,538,491$0$850,000-$35,038,491

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
Kessel, Phil
$8,000,000$8,000,000
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$9,500,000$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,893,000$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,750,000$3,750,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$874,125$874,125
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
UFA - 2

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Jun. 28, 2020 at 10:51 p.m.
#76
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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If you are talking about just being Leafs....I'll take Marner by a wide margin. Kessel for most of his Leaf tenure was totally a one dimensional offensive player. Absolutely terrible in the defensive zone.
Kessel had the good fortune to be traded to the Penquins where Kessel found the motivation to a good even very good well rounded player.
Jun. 29, 2020 at 9:49 a.m.
#77
v5 CBJ GM
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
You are a robot


Why'd you ping us all dude
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Jun. 29, 2020 at 10:59 a.m.
#78
Banned
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
Why'd you ping us all dude


Just responded to his post
Jul. 4, 2020 at 2:56 p.m.
#79
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For some reason I didn't get this notification until now but my opinion is Marner that being said it's all depending on what linemates you plan on putting either player with. If you have a playmaker on your top line Kessel makes more sense but if you already have a sniper than Marner makes more sense IMO. Also, @oneX and @Trickster would be great people to add to the convo.
Jul. 4, 2020 at 2:58 p.m.
#80
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
For some reason I didn't get this notification until now but my opinion is Marner that being said it's all depending on what linemates you plan on putting either player with. If you have a playmaker on your top line Kessel makes more sense but if you already have a sniper than Marner makes more sense IMO.


Literally all you had to do was delete all the names in the original post. Thanks for the mass ping on a 2 week old thread
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Jul. 4, 2020 at 3:12 p.m.
#81
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Literally all you had to do was delete all the names in the original post. Thanks for the mass ping on a 2 week old thread


Or you could have just as easily ignored it I mean if that is a huge inconvenience to you you really need to find something else to do with your time.
Jul. 4, 2020 at 3:20 p.m.
#82
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Or you could have just as easily ignored it I mean if that is a huge inconvenience to you you really need to find something else to do with your time.


What? Its called being inconsiderate. Every time im mentioned in one of these mass pings i remove all the other names when I respond so I dont repeatedly mass ping people. Its not that hard.
Jul. 4, 2020 at 4:02 p.m.
#83
burn the pegulas
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
What? Its called being inconsiderate. Every time im mentioned in one of these mass pings i remove all the other names when I respond so I dont repeatedly mass ping people. Its not that hard.

it’s not that big of a deal come on
Jul. 4, 2020 at 5:33 p.m.
#84
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
For some reason I didn't get this notification until now but my opinion is Marner that being said it's all depending on what linemates you plan on putting either player with. If you have a playmaker on your top line Kessel makes more sense but if you already have a sniper than Marner makes more sense IMO. Also, oneX and Trickster would be great people to add to the convo.


Why the pong?
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Jul. 4, 2020 at 5:44 p.m.
#85
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
Why the pong?


My bad. Honestly, I didn't think about it, I don't get to come on here as much as I used to or as much as I'd like to. I like coming on here to talk to intelligent people such as yourself. I'll try to remember next time. Sorry, buddy.
Jul. 4, 2020 at 7:54 p.m.
#86
v5 CBJ GM
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
My bad. Honestly, I didn't think about it, I don't get to come on here as much as I used to or as much as I'd like to. I like coming on here to talk to intelligent people such as yourself. I'll try to remember next time. Sorry, buddy.


No problem smile
May 5, 2021 at 10:19 a.m.
#87
Go leafs go
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I’d say Marner but Kessel is 100x more cool. Actually Kessel. Kessel body type and all the things that come with that I’m far more impressed he plays hockey than marner. Kessel is my final answer.


Quoting: Skyraider112
For the price of the contract definitely Phil, for personality: Phil, for winning resume: Phil.

Just because Marner gets close to 100 points playing with elite centers doesn't make him nearly as good as Phil in his prime. Phil has won 2 cups and was a ppg on an atrocious Leafs team back in the day


Quoting: AnalyticsGeek
Yes I agree I think talent wise they are at a similar level but Marner still has miles to go before he reaches Phil’s level. Who’d you say is better between Mitch Marner & Sam Reinhart?


Quoting: HatterTParty
Hard argue against Kessel’s body of work. Two cups, all star caliber player, loads of goals, and one of the best wrist shots around. Plus, I mean, look the goal totals with the leafs (the BAD leafs). Pure class. I would have to say him right now. However.......

Marner clearly isn’t in his prime yet and he’s already topping 90 points and one of the best pure playmakers in the league. No, i don’t believe he is reliant on Matthews (seriously, hattrick Kane kills me 😂). He’s great with almost anyone on that team and will continue to get better.

Verdict: gotta go with Kessel for now. Track record, stats, and marner not in his prime yet all contribute to that. However, give it 3-4 more years and we may be having a different conversation.


Quoting: HattrickKane88
The stupidity of this takes makes me wonder if you’re trolling or just plain stupid. “Kessel needs good linemates to shine?” Are you high? In Toronto he was playing on a line with 2 garbage players in Bozak & Lupul every season yet he was consistently scoring 35 goals & a point per game. Also, when he was in Pittsburgh, it was him carrying Malkin, not the other way around. All Malkin did was float around & take lazy penalties.

“Marner makes other players around him better.”

Are you drunk? The only reason Marner is in the NHL is because he’s getting carried by Matthews.


Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly. Marner is good but he’s so overrated on this site. He’s not at a prime Kessel level yet


Quoting: MitchMarner_16
X1000


Quoting: keep_ups12
Don't respond to this HattrickKane guy. This is 100% just for attention. Don't give it to him


Quoting: PrimeDatsyuk
Marner has never been given the reputation of a locker room cancer, if anything i've only heard the opposite. I don't understand why all you do is hate on marner, like every ACGM you make you undervalue him massively. oh well


Quoting: JaredOfLondon
so comparing a player who has basically gone through 98% of his career to one who is just getting started? You need a new hobby


Quoting: Wadejos123
Marner


Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I'm going to say Marner but I want to point out something. Kessel struggled a bit when he had to carry his line in Toronto, he succeeded in Pittsburgh though as the 2nd best player on his line, now that he is the "best player on the line" in Arizona he is struggling again. Marner has never really had to carry his own line


Quoting: aadoyle
100% just look at Kessel now, looks like a shell of what he was in Toronto or Pittsburgh.Now not saying the Coyotes are bad but man being seperated from Malkin really shows Kessels abilities are not that great anymore. Marner on any line would make that line a 1st line. His playmaking skills are almost unmatched and the kid is only 23. So between the 2 I would rather go with Marner as playmaking wings are hard to come by especially ones on par with Marner.


Quoting: exo2769
Marner got 94 points last year and just turned 23. Kessel's never done that. Oh and Marner still needs to play defense which Kessel also has never done.


Quoting: justaBoss
Marner, pretty easily in my opinion.

Kessel needs good linemates to shine. It's no wonder his best years were with Malkin. Marner however makes players around him better.


Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
You are a robot


My, how the tables have turned.

To be fair this was a decently fair argument at the time, but now...
May 5, 2021 at 10:38 a.m.
#88
exo2769
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Edited May 5, 2021 at 10:45 a.m.
@saskleaf I never really considered this to be a super close argument. Nothing's really changed in my mind. Marner's season high point total is still higher that Kessell's. Kessell's best years had Malkin as his center (vs Matthews...at least somewhat comparable) . What I find most amazing is how bad Kessell was as a defender. It takes true talent to win 2 cups and NEVER have a season where the Penguins had less than 100 points in the standings, BUT still be a MINUS 11 in your time in Pittsburgh. You have to go out of your way to be THAT bad or irresponsible defensively. 100 takeaways......244 giveaways
May 5, 2021 at 11:05 a.m.
#89
Go leafs go
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Quoting: exo2769
saskleaf I never really considered this to be a super close argument. Nothing's really changed in my mind. Marner's season high point total is still higher that Kessell's. Kessell's best years had Malkin as his center (vs Matthews...at least somewhat comparable) . What I find most amazing is how bad Kessell was as a defender. It takes true talent to win 2 cups and NEVER have a season where the Penguins had less than 100 points in the standings, BUT still be a MINUS 11 in your time in Pittsburgh. You have to go out of your way to be THAT bad or irresponsible defensively. 100 takeaways......244 giveaways


I always though Marner was better, too. But at the time this thread was made, I'd say it was somewhat close, because Marner had not broken into the top 3 in scoring. Before, he was comparable to prime Kessel, who carried Toronto on his back for many years. But yes, I agree, Marner was the better player at the time of this.
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May 5, 2021 at 1:51 p.m.
#90
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Quoting: Saskleaf
My, how the tables have turned.

To be fair this was a decently fair argument at the time, but now...


Huh?
May 5, 2021 at 1:56 p.m.
#91
Go leafs go
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Huh?


Yes, I realize you though Marner was better at the time, I just wanted to see what your thoughts are nearly a year later.
May 5, 2021 at 2:01 p.m.
#92
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Yes, I realize you though Marner was better at the time, I just wanted to see what your thoughts are nearly a year later.


Hasnt changed. Kessel still won 2 cups in his prime as the 2nd best player on his line though.
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