BROOOO stop referring to guys as rookies and then saying MAtthews

leafs 2015 -16 roster

top scorers
kadri -45point
P.A. Parenteau- 41points
Komarov- 36 points

JVR and BOzak were hurt

Leafs 2016 Matthews and "rookies"

Mathews -69points
kadri- 62 points
JVR- 61 points
nylander -61 points
MArner - 61 points

oh yeah leafs had riemer as goalie in 15-16

Matthews is a Winner WTF has he won? has he even won a single round of the playoffs? MVP? Rocket?

oh yeah they also traded Kessel

his career ppg average is 59p/y haha seems like a fair argument... hes having a rebound year this year but last year... wasn't too great

Again, I've mentioned several times here that McDavid is the best player in the world. What I say is Matthews is not as far behind as people like to think and he is in fact better than Eichel. Not by a lot but he is.

What exactly is your point? Matthews played his rookie season, when he was in fact a rookie, next to Hyman and Nylander at 5v5 who both were in fact also rookies and never saw much time on PP and was limited in icetime in general. He hasn't received top end icetime until this year after Babs was fired. Those were all facts. So what is it? Did Nylander and Hyman carry Matthews? Did Matthews carry those two? Your argument is hard to follow? Unless its just a poor and lazy attempt to troll Leaf fans, if that's the case, I really shouldn't expect anything other than usual mindless drivel that people like that like to throw around.

You are so hard to follow here. And also you are just ridiculous. Please point to where I compared Matthews to Bergeron? Also please point to where Nylander wasn't a rookie when Matthews was also a rookie, also show me where Hyman was not a rookie when they played on the same line in Matthews first year. I'll save you the trouble, you're full of ****. You're just a bitter goof that gets all bent out of shape when Matthews gets praise because for some reason it makes you emotional when people aren't calling Ovie the best goal scorer in the game still. You're just a child.

my point is saying Matthews carried or was the catalyst to the leafs making the playoffs is idiotic. he was part of the reason not the only reason. Matthews didnt carry Nylanderand Nylander/Hyman don't carry him but it helps to have good to great players on your line. mt point have been the same you suffer form selective reading.

points

1) you stating Matthews is an elite level defensive center is laughable. his devensive game has gotten better but all signs point to the obvious. mainly that elite level center play PK. Matthews is an elite level offensive center nobody will argue this.
2) you and this other guy seem hell bend on hyping Matthews as a rookie making everyone around him better but fail to suggest that other people also made him better. its more give and take. Marner and /nylander weren't just "rookies" they were main contributing factors. It wasn't bc Matthews put them on his back they were good solid players

haha read the comment he said Matthews put up 40 goals playing with rookies. this is true but calling just "rookies" makes it seem like hes saying Matthews was playing with nobodies his rookie year. why not name the rookies its vague and seems like your trying to overhype what he did by making it seem like he played with lesser talent.

so you want me to remove the first 15 games and then he he would be on pace for the amount of points you criticized me for.

"You were absolutely one of those Nylander is just a 60 point winger guys funny how he was so overrated" then "Take out his first 15 games and he was on a 61 point pace over a full 82 game season."

oh my. solid points bud. hard to tell where you stand here. you are so angry are all over the place

Please point to where I said he was an elite level defensive player? What I said was he's very good defensively, and there are many stats to prove it. He was 3rd in the league in take aways this year. Tied with Stone, who apparently is the best defensive forward not named Bergeron. But I imagine that doesn't matter. His xGF% is elite, his xGA is extremely good. Possession also elite. From a defensive standpoint he wiped the floor when compared to McDavid and the only way that can be disputed is if you just disregard literally all the pertinent information. Like Trump when he says Coronavirus is completely under control.

As for your second comment, I don't think I am ignoring anything. You said Matthews played with great players his rookie year. He in fact spent the vast majority of his icetime with two other rookies. One of which was 3rd in the league in high danger scoring chances but only scored 15 goals (Hyman), the other Nylander is according to you an overrated bum. Yet somehow he takes away from Matthews skill because Nylander helped Matthews to carry him but only because Matthews was boosted by having Nylander who he carried but was also carried by him because no one was a rookie. Or some other completely unintelligent ****, to be honest I really can't follow your points.

Ummm bud Matthews , Nylander , Marner and Hyman were all rookies that season - very good rookies but rookies none the less

Nylander and Hyman. Those are the rookies, one was a high skilled 1st rounder and the other was in fact a nobody at the time. So now are you saying Hyman that year was some sort of high prized high end rookie as well?

He was also stapled to the 3rd line by Babs who constantly berated Nylander for literally nothing. Babs never played the young guys as much as he should have. He was a bad coach and deserved to get fired. Babs actually played Marleau over Nylander and Matthews in last years playoffs.

true im not disputing the fact that they are rookies but its more or les the words your using to describe the caliber of players they are. when you refer to a guy like marner as a rookie it seems like you are intentionally not naming him bc if you were to say "Matthews as a rookie score 40 goals with nylander and hyman as linemates" it would sound less impressive. how you worded the facts is my main issue.

Actually the point was saying Matthews was surrounded by better players than Eichel therefore Eichel is better when every way you look at it it's simply not true - Eichel is also surrounded by good if not great players in Rienhart, Skinner - Buffalo's team as whole and on paper should of been as successful as TO they just were not - now does that have anything to with Matthews or Eichel themselves not likely

Well wasn't my intention to not name them lol, I was just merely stating that yes I believe Matthews would score 40 in Arizona regardless of line mates as he most definitely scored 40 in his rookie year with 2 rookie wingers one of which was not Marner

then why not say Matthews was on a line with 1 high end rookies and a hyman….why try to hide talent in the word "rookie". its just being vague to try to add value to your point. Marner, Nylander and Matthews were all very highly rated rookies. Hyman wasn't so much. ill quote myself. "Matthews didnt carry Nylander and Nylander/Hyman don't carry him but it helps to have good to great players on your line".

edit:
I never said high prized my quote said he had good-great linemates….hyman wasn't considered good?

edit this would be like me saying recchi and LeClair had a great year playing with a rookie ...the rookie is Crosby but lets not mention it

okay so lets say Matthews goes to AZ and plays on a line with 2 of their rookie wingers. would he have the same success? lets say two rookies drafted in the 3rd round not a high ceiling? or does the quality of the rookie matter or does using the word rookie truly help paint an accurate picture of who he had on his line?

edit this would be like me saying recchi and LeClair had a great year playing with rookie center

Rookies are rookies, name me one other player who scored 40 goals in their rookie season while playing with 2 rookies and getting exclusively 2nd pp unit and also around 17 minutes a game. He was played like a 3rd liner and scored that much. At the time both Bozak and Kadri got more minutes and opportunity than Matthews. But what does that matter, Ovie played 20+ and scored 50 or whatever

I believe he would at this time and for his rookie year yes he's that good at putting the puck in the net, I also believe had he been drafted by Arizona he would have mass amounts of PP time (kinda like OVI in his rookie year) with the PP mainly getting him the puck in his favorite shooting spot

guy rookies come in all different skill levels.... was McDavid worse than LArs Eller bc hes a rookie? no rookies in fact can be good at hockey

Hyman Matthews Nylander > Dainius Zubrus Jeff Halpern Ovechkin … Zubrus score a carrer high in his first year with Ovechkin....same with Halpern... both were at best 3rd line player past their primes

fair enough

But they were vets with experience. But again, according to you Nylander is overrated and was carried by Matthews, Hyman was a nobody, but at the same time Nylander and Hyman carried Matthews because Matthews is overrated. Your circles are out of control

Sure cool that's neat - caps didn't make the playoffs in Ovi's rookie and they literally ran all their offence through their shiny new toy, TO chose not to run all their offence through their shiny new toy and made the playoffs - but I digress as there is currently no argument to displace OVI as the all time best goal scorer in the league he's that good - but to say line mates had everything to do with it is a little niave when it really depends on how a teams offense is structured and which player it runs through - early days of OVI it all ran through OVI and early days of Matthews it did not and even today the offensive structure of the Leafs does not run through 1 single player

buddy let me quote myself one more time bc you are having such a hard time reading

"Matthews didnt carry Nylander and Nylander/Hyman don't carry him but it helps to have good to great players on your line".

ill break it down for selective reading disordered

Matthews didn't carry Nylander
Nylander/Hyman DIDNT CARRY MATTHEWS

so at the juncture of my quote im simply saying nobody carried anyone. I then go on to say

it helps to have good to great players on your line.

this means all 3 benefitted from playing with good to great players.

hopefully this helps you comparand the words I said to you.

I said Nyalnder was overrated bc people compared him to Marner. MArner is MAthews level not Nylander level.

ill break this down also

Marner and MAtthews are better than Nylander but this doesn't meanNylander is terrible it just means hes not ELITE like other people claim. you can be great and still contribute to a successful line.... to circle back to your one track mind

And quite honestly I'm not even sure what we are arguing about anymore lol - I think it was the classic who's better Matthews or Eichel and somehow got side tracked to Ovi's career?