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How do sabres and lightning fans feel about this

Created by: Ragsandbluesfan
Team: 2020-21 Buffalo Sabres
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 9, 2020
Published: Jul. 9, 2020
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2020
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10$81,500,000$48,504,167$1,487,500$3,487,500$32,995,833
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:06 a.m.
#1
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Cirelli is overvalued hard on this site
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:07 a.m.
#2
exo2769
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They should be happy to get this kind of return. TBL is up *** creek when it comes to cap space. $5M with 5 roster spots to fill just to ice the minimum amount of people. Now factor in Cirelli/Cernak/Serg. I wouldn't be shocked if all 3 of them were gone to be perfectly honest.
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:07 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: villenash
Cirelli is overvalued hard on this site


I don't think this is fair as a 1for1, just wondering how they would feel about this as a base, not a final trade
Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:13 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan
I don't think this is fair as a 1for1, just wondering how they would feel about this as a base, not a final trade


I don't see any scenario where BUF trades Cozens. And TBL are not in the position to demand any team's top prospect(s) -- they are up against a wall and I don't see them coming out on top in any deal.
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:13 a.m.
#5
burn the pegulas
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no
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:15 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: villenash
I don't see any scenario where BUF trades Cozens. And TBL are not in the position to demand any team's top prospect(s) -- they are up against a wall and I don't see them coming out on top in any deal.


They got a 1st for miller, I think they'll manage
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:16 a.m.
#7
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No thx
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 11:17 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan
They got a 1st for miller, I think they'll manage


Looking like a really good deal for VAN too.

But Cernak, Sergachev, and Cirelli are all RFAs as well - so offersheets are a real possibility for all of them. And with so many NTC/NMC on the team, it will not be easy.
Jul. 9, 2020 at 12:15 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: villenash
Cirelli is overvalued hard on this site


I think he is just based on being an RFA and the TB cap hell situation, but I don't think he is an over rated player (I know you didn't say that). I think he's a great 200 ft player and he's young so people see 7-10 of production. I will say that nobody really talks about the fact he plays with unreal players and his numbers could be inflated because of it. Still...I want him on my team
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 1:58 p.m.
#10
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@exo2769
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@masterjuddi

Of course just my opinion, but maybe as soon as next year Cozens will have more NHL pts than Cirelli does in a year.
I would not make that trade.

Let me also remind every one that Buffalo missed the preliminary round because the team had at least 5 epic fails:
Hutton lost his vision and went 0-8-4 over a 12 game stretch.
Rodrigues, Sheary and Vesey all decided to have career worse years in the same season.
Skinner has a historic bad year.
The PK was deplorable.
The PP was even worse.
If any one of the above does not happen the team is in the preliminaries, if none of the above happen, the team is on the heals of the Leafs.

Let me add, Mittelstadt is not a bust, he has 39 pts in 114 game, Cirelli had 50 in his first 100 games playing for Tampa.
A chair may get 25 pts in 100 games playing for Tampa (his line mates last year were Stamkos, Killorn, Johnson and Palat).

Kahun, has played for 3 teams in 2 years (not a good sign), but in three different systems put up 68 pts in 138 games, nearly 0.5pts/gm.

Thompson looked like he was ready to leap the NHL, then ended his NHL season in his first NHL game.

All four may be on the team next year, I am NOT going to mortgage the future again only to finish last over all.
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 2:03 p.m.
#11
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@GMTD I agree with you. TBL would be VERY lucky to get anything close to this kind of return. They're in sooo much cap trouble. The guys they want to trade also have FULL ntc's. Which limits their destination and in turn limits the return they might get. IF I were BUF's new GM I'd explore (just explore not saying done deal) what the 2020 1st rounder could get...Cirelli and Cernak? Cirelli and Serg? TBL likely won't be able to keep any of those three RFAs...soooo...... "help them out"
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 2:14 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: exo2769
@GMTD I agree with you. TBL would be VERY lucky to get anything close to this kind of return. They're in sooo much cap trouble. The guys they want to trade also have FULL ntc's. Which limits their destination and in turn limits the return they might get. IF I were BUF's new GM I'd explore (just explore not saying done deal) what the 2020 1st rounder could get...Cirelli and Cernak? Cirelli and Serg? TBL likely won't be able to keep any of those three RFAs...soooo...... "help them out"


It is nice to see some voices of reason on this site.
Johansson did not work out as a #2 center, but Cozens really looks like the real deal to me.
Give him Skinner on the LW and move Sam to the 2nd line to give the defense some one else to be concerned with, and it could be interesting next year.
Victor, Jack, Dominik
Jeff, Dylan, Sam
Marcus, Casey, Tage
IDK, Curtis, Kyle

Move any one but Henri for a LHD and the defense is solid. left and right.
Jul. 9, 2020 at 2:32 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: GMTD
It is nice to see some voices of reason on this site.
Johansson did not work out as a #2 center, but Cozens really looks like the real deal to me.
Give him Skinner on the LW and move Sam to the 2nd line to give the defense some one else to be concerned with, and it could be interesting next year.
Victor, Jack, Dominik
Jeff, Dylan, Sam
Marcus, Casey, Tage
IDK, Curtis, Kyle

Move any one but Henri for a LHD and the defense is solid. left and right.


It doesn’t work like that. Adams has to work in the offseason to strengthen the lineup, than just put the kids and play with them. The big chance is that if we again do not make the playoffs, Jack asks for a trade, I would not want to take that risk and go into the season with this roster.
Jul. 9, 2020 at 3:07 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: masterjuddi
I think he is just based on being an RFA and the TB cap hell situation, but I don't think he is an over rated player (I know you didn't say that). I think he's a great 200 ft player and he's young so people see 7-10 of production. I will say that nobody really talks about the fact he plays with unreal players and his numbers could be inflated because of it. Still...I want him on my team


Cirelli drives his line he is not riding coat tails of his wingers in no way, I think he has added to his wingers value. His line is the Lightnings 2nd line with Palat and Killorn and they draw all the hardest matchups... ie Crosby, Bergeron, Barkov lines of opposing teams, he is over valued on here but also under valued on here in a way. I think his career projects just like Sean Couturier has in that he excels at the 2 way game but put will start to up 60 plus points a season. I don't think a lot of people realize as well that he gets less then 30 seconds a night on the power play but plays about 2:45 on the penalty kill. All his points are mostly 5 on 5. The kid is good and only getting better. I don't play trade scenarios with him because I don't think the Lightning will trade him. He never stops, my current favorite player on the Lightning.
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 3:45 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: GMTD
@exo2769
@Ragsandbluesfan
@SalamiCheese
@villenash
@masterjuddi

Of course just my opinion, but maybe as soon as next year Cozens will have more NHL pts than Cirelli does in a year.
I would not make that trade.

Let me also remind every one that Buffalo missed the preliminary round because the team had at least 5 epic fails:
Hutton lost his vision and went 0-8-4 over a 12 game stretch.
Rodrigues, Sheary and Vesey all decided to have career worse years in the same season.
Skinner has a historic bad year.
The PK was deplorable.
The PP was even worse.
If any one of the above does not happen the team is in the preliminaries, if none of the above happen, the team is on the heals of the Leafs.

Let me add, Mittelstadt is not a bust, he has 39 pts in 114 game, Cirelli had 50 in his first 100 games playing for Tampa.
A chair may get 25 pts in 100 games playing for Tampa (his line mates last year were Stamkos, Killorn, Johnson and Palat).

Kahun, has played for 3 teams in 2 years (not a good sign), but in three different systems put up 68 pts in 138 games, nearly 0.5pts/gm.

Thompson looked like he was ready to leap the NHL, then ended his NHL season in his first NHL game.

All four may be on the team next year, I am NOT going to mortgage the future again only to finish last over all.


Kahun is much better than you think when you look at that 3 teams nonsense, buffalo didn't think it was a bad sign when he got traded after his rookie season
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Jul. 9, 2020 at 4:09 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: stammerman
Cirelli drives his line he is not riding coat tails of his wingers in no way, I think he has added to his wingers value. His line is the Lightnings 2nd line with Palat and Killorn and they draw all the hardest matchups... ie Crosby, Bergeron, Barkov lines of opposing teams, he is over valued on here but also under valued on here in a way. I think his career projects just like Sean Couturier has in that he excels at the 2 way game but put will start to up 60 plus points a season. I don't think a lot of people realize as well that he gets less then 30 seconds a night on the power play but plays about 2:45 on the penalty kill. All his points are mostly 5 on 5. The kid is good and only getting better. I don't play trade scenarios with him because I don't think the Lightning will trade him. He never stops, my current favorite player on the Lightning.


Very much agree with this. Tampa isn't moving or losing him or Serg. Cernak may or may not have to go based on if one of Johnson or Gourde waives or is just bought out(Johnson the likely one to waive, but that's another discussion). Anyway, if Tampa was looking to move him, Cozens is likely one of the few pieces they would listen to from Buffalo. Very quickly declining offers of Mittlestadt+ or the 8OA. I almost did a spit take earlier though when some Sabres fan thought the 8OA could be the main piece in getting Cirelli+Cernak or even better, Serg+Cirelli lol. By far a candidate for best laugh of the week.
Jul. 9, 2020 at 7:47 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
It doesn’t work like that. Adams has to work in the offseason to strengthen the lineup, than just put the kids and play with them. The big chance is that if we again do not make the playoffs, Jack asks for a trade, I would not want to take that risk and go into the season with this roster.


Let's agree to disagree.
IMO the team is close.

I think the forward line up I proposed is playoff ready.
Cozens will be the #2 center next year, I would not be surprised if playing with two solid wingers, Jeff and Sam, he reaches more than 50 pts.
Kahun will be a top 6 forward, and Casey and Tage will be in the line up.
I think one of the RHD not named Jokiharju will be traded and I will not be surprised if it is for an equivalent LHD to play behind Dahlin.
Vesey may resign to stay with Jack.
I would only want Simmonds if the price was really low.
Girgensons and Larsson (two of my favorite players) have priced themselves out of the line up.

It took epic fails to miss the preliminaries.
When did the coaches know about Hutton?
Why did Vesey, Sheary and Rodrigues all have historic bad seasons?
Who put Skinner on the second line with "Sobotka"?
Why did the coaching staff not fix the PK?
Why did the coaching staff not get the skaters to move around on the PP (every one standing around watching Jack skate)?

There is my rant, sorry.
Jul. 10, 2020 at 3:31 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: GMTD
Let's agree to disagree.
IMO the team is close.

I think the forward line up I proposed is playoff ready.
Cozens will be the #2 center next year, I would not be surprised if playing with two solid wingers, Jeff and Sam, he reaches more than 50 pts.
Kahun will be a top 6 forward, and Casey and Tage will be in the line up.
I think one of the RHD not named Jokiharju will be traded and I will not be surprised if it is for an equivalent LHD to play behind Dahlin.
Vesey may resign to stay with Jack.
I would only want Simmonds if the price was really low.
Girgensons and Larsson (two of my favorite players) have priced themselves out of the line up.

It took epic fails to miss the preliminaries.
When did the coaches know about Hutton?
Why did Vesey, Sheary and Rodrigues all have historic bad seasons?
Who put Skinner on the second line with "Sobotka"?
Why did the coaching staff not fix the PK?
Why did the coaching staff not get the skaters to move around on the PP (every one standing around watching Jack skate)?

There is my rant, sorry.


Well, this is not a composition for the playoffs, IMO. Cozens may not yet be ready for the NHL, not to mention the role of 2C. Even if he is ready, I would prefer to give him a safer role. Mittelstadt will probably be sold or will spend season in the AHL. Krueger does not trust the youth too much, he even reduced time to Dahlin and did not rush his development, what to speak about Casey and Tage. Thompson has not yet shown himself in the NHL, but maybe he will be on the list and will fight for the fourth line. I would not return anyone Vesey, Sheary, Sobotka, Frolik, Simmonds, these guys are not helpers to us.

What should Adams do in the offseason:

- find 2C
- find RW for top 9
- find another LD
- get away from Hutton and find a partner for Ullmark

Composition:

Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner/Olofsson - 2C - Kahun/MoJO/acquired RW
MoJO/Kahun - Cozens - Kahun/MoJo/acquired RW
Asplund/Arttu - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage
Jul. 10, 2020 at 10:57 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
Well, this is not a composition for the playoffs, IMO. Cozens may not yet be ready for the NHL, not to mention the role of 2C. Even if he is ready, I would prefer to give him a safer role. Mittelstadt will probably be sold or will spend season in the AHL. Krueger does not trust the youth too much, he even reduced time to Dahlin and did not rush his development, what to speak about Casey and Tage. Thompson has not yet shown himself in the NHL, but maybe he will be on the list and will fight for the fourth line. I would not return anyone Vesey, Sheary, Sobotka, Frolik, Simmonds, these guys are not helpers to us.

What should Adams do in the offseason:

- find 2C
- find RW for top 9
- find another LD
- get away from Hutton and find a partner for Ullmark

Composition:

Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner/Olofsson - 2C - Kahun/MoJO/acquired RW
MoJO/Kahun - Cozens - Kahun/MoJo/acquired RW
Asplund/Arttu - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage


I do not think our visions are that different.
Obviously a different GK would be great, I wonder if Talbot would sign with Buffalo.
Haula or Galchenyuk or both could be cheap insurance in case the kids do not break into to the line up.
My line up is not much different than yours other than you do not think Mittelstadt will be in the NHL.

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun
Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart
MoJo - Mittelstadt - Okposo/Tage
Asplund/Arttu/Girgensons - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage

Tage had a great 2019 AHL playoff, a great prospect challenge and a great 24 games in Rochester: 12-9-21.
Dylan scored more pts and goals in 51 games this year as he did in 68 games last year.
Yup Mittelstadt is the big question mark IMO, but he is close. He had 39 pts in 114 games, hardly the stats of a bust who is only 21 years old.

IMO, sign a mid six forward (Haula or Galchenyuk), a new GK (Talbot), and trade a RHD not named Jokiharju for a LHD.
Jul. 10, 2020 at 1:48 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: stammerman
Cirelli drives his line he is not riding coat tails of his wingers in no way, I think he has added to his wingers value. His line is the Lightnings 2nd line with Palat and Killorn and they draw all the hardest matchups... ie Crosby, Bergeron, Barkov lines of opposing teams, he is over valued on here but also under valued on here in a way. I think his career projects just like Sean Couturier has in that he excels at the 2 way game but put will start to up 60 plus points a season. I don't think a lot of people realize as well that he gets less then 30 seconds a night on the power play but plays about 2:45 on the penalty kill. All his points are mostly 5 on 5. The kid is good and only getting better. I don't play trade scenarios with him because I don't think the Lightning will trade him. He never stops, my current favorite player on the Lightning.


NIce insight. I agree and tbh, I don't watch a lot of TB games. I think the bolts will do everything to keep him in tampa and trade other guys like Killorn, Palat, Johnson to make the room.
Jul. 10, 2020 at 2:29 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: GMTD
I do not think our visions are that different.
Obviously a different GK would be great, I wonder if Talbot would sign with Buffalo.
Haula or Galchenyuk or both could be cheap insurance in case the kids do not break into to the line up.
My line up is not much different than yours other than you do not think Mittelstadt will be in the NHL.

Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun
Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart
MoJo - Mittelstadt - Okposo/Tage
Asplund/Arttu/Girgensons - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage

Tage had a great 2019 AHL playoff, a great prospect challenge and a great 24 games in Rochester: 12-9-21.
Dylan scored more pts and goals in 51 games this year as he did in 68 games last year.
Yup Mittelstadt is the big question mark IMO, but he is close. He had 39 pts in 114 games, hardly the stats of a bust who is only 21 years old.

IMO, sign a mid six forward (Haula or Galchenyuk), a new GK (Talbot), and trade a RHD not named Jokiharju for a LHD.


I mean, WHL is very different from NHL and it will be difficult for Cozens to play the role of 2C, so we need to find at least some 2C, Haula can be a good option. Mittelstadt may need a whole season in the AHL, he is too weak physically and he thinks too long. As I said, Krueger will not trust the youth too much and if one of the young people does not look good, they will send him to the AHL. Thompson was injured and so far has not shown anything at the NHL level, maybe he will be able to crack the list, but who knows. Talbot might be a good option.
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