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Forums/Trade Machine Proposals

Space for PietrangeloUpgrades for Holland

Created by: vmark
Published: Jul. 15, 2020 at 7:03 p.m.
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Season Days: 41/186 (22%)
Central Registry Determination: This trade has met the central registry's trade checklist

Logo of the Detroit Red WingsDetroit Red Wings

Trade occurred while using LTIR
LTIR Relief: $11,187,878
LTIR Used Prior to Trade: -$2,196,431
OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Hicketts, JoeDetroit Red WingsMinor-$0011---6022--
2020 2nd round pick (Logo of the Edmonton OilersEDM)---010------
2020 3rd round pick (Logo of the Detroit Red WingsDET)---010------
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Allen, JakeSt. Louis BluesNHL-$4,350,000111-------2.150.927
Sundqvist, OskarSt. Louis BluesNHL-$2,750,000111---57121123--
Dunn, VinceSt. Louis BluesNHL-$722,500111---7191423--
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$13,384,30924487131112
Change-$7,822,5003220-20
Final$5,561,809 (↓)27 (↑)50 (↑)73 (↑)39 (↓)12212344

Logo of the St. Louis BluesSt. Louis Blues

Trade occurred while using LTIR
LTIR Relief: $10,750,000
LTIR Used Prior to Trade: $3,508,333
OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Allen, JakeSt. Louis BluesNHL-$4,350,000111-------2.150.927
Sundqvist, OskarSt. Louis BluesNHL-$2,750,000111---57121123--
Dunn, VinceSt. Louis BluesNHL-$722,500111---7191423--
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Hicketts, JoeDetroit Red WingsMinor-$0011---6022--
2020 2nd round pick (Logo of the Edmonton OilersEDM)---010------
2020 3rd round pick (Logo of the Detroit Red WingsDET)---010------
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$7,241,667254761349
Change$7,822,500-3-2-2020
Final$15,064,167 (↑)22 (↓)45 (↓)59 (↓)36 (↑)9-21-230
Jul. 15, 2020 at 7:12 p.m.
#1
IG vincemark78
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I didn't fully look into the impact that would have on Detroit's cap space mixed with how many players they still need to resign (Mantha, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, and Bowey)

So for that reason, I would say you could maybe take off Hicketts and put Bowey in for him. Or perhaps have some salary retention with Allen's deal, so as to save Detroit some space. Or maybe even take Sundqvist out altogether and one of the picks on DET's end.

But this deal makes sense for both teams. Detroit needs a band aid goalie this year. They could also use a legitimate young D in Dunn and have a bunch of draft capital with which to work with.

If STL is serious about resigning Petro, Dunn basically HAS to go... there is no hope of legitimately resigning the both of them.

Seems like a no brainer on STL's part, that is, if they actually give a **** about resigning their workhorse #1D who captained them to a SC last year.

But who knows with Armstrong... guy has signed everybody BUT Petro at this point.

You'd think you'd get that deal done first, right?
Jul. 15, 2020 at 7:22 p.m.
#2
Hawks36
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Quoting: vmark
I didn't fully look into the impact that would have on Detroit's cap space mixed with how many players they still need to resign (Mantha, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, and Bowey)

So for that reason, I would say you could maybe take off Hicketts and put Bowey in for him. Or perhaps have some salary retention with Allen's deal, so as to save Detroit some space. Or maybe even take Sundqvist out altogether and one of the picks on DET's end.

But this deal makes sense for both teams. Detroit needs a band aid goalie this year. They could also use a legitimate young D in Dunn and have a bunch of draft capital with which to work with.

If STL is serious about resigning Petro, Dunn basically HAS to go... there is no hope of legitimately resigning the both of them.

Seems like a no brainer on STL's part, that is, if they actually give a **** about resigning their workhorse #1D who captained them to a SC last year.

But who knows with Armstrong... guy has signed everybody BUT Petro at this point.

You'd think you'd get that deal done first, right?

If not this I'm trying to trade Steen
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Jul. 15, 2020 at 9:11 p.m.
#3
Fanboys make bad Gms
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Vince Dunn is a non starter. Long term they want him more than just about anyone on the roster.
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Jul. 15, 2020 at 10:16 p.m.
#4
HutsonNorlinderGuhle
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Quoting: reelkena
Vince Dunn is a non starter. Long term they want him more than just about anyone on the roster.


So who do you trade for St. Louis? You could pawn off Allen on Detroit(thank you vmark), but that only clears so much up if you retain on him. Petro does want to resign with the Blues, but with the cap staying the same, the Blues will have to part with someone other than Dunn. This might be lunacy, but is Tarasenko a must keep in STL?
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Jul. 15, 2020 at 11:13 p.m.
#5
Fanboys make bad Gms
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Quoting: HabsFan9
So who do you trade for St. Louis? You could pawn off Allen on Detroit(thank you vmark), but that only clears so much up if you retain on him. Petro does want to resign with the Blues, but with the cap staying the same, the Blues will have to part with someone other than Dunn. This might be lunacy, but is Tarasenko a must keep in STL?


I would rather move Tarasenko than Dunn if those end up being the only two options. But lets say you dump Allen. Add that to Bowmeester coming off the books. With Pietroangelo's 6.5 from this season that means 14.1 million becomes available. Then you look at paying to dump Steen. You don't have to pay Dunn to dump Allen or Steen. The Blues have 6 goalies in their system and Binnington is gonna be their guy for probably almost a decade. Send one with Allen, Send one and a good pick with Steen (it's only one year of contract) Now you've got 20 million and it might just cost you none of your top end.

Btw I'm available to GM your team too. Hit me up NHL
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Jul. 16, 2020 at 2:46 p.m.
#6
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You do know Holland is in Edmonton and has been there all season.
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Jul. 16, 2020 at 3:02 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: reelkena
Vince Dunn is a non starter. Long term they want him more than just about anyone on the roster.


I agree STL isn't trading Dunn. That pretty much sinks this deal the piece Detroit would want is Dunn. 1yr of Allen doesn't get you a 2nd or a 3rd at least not from Detroit. I do the 2021 3rd (VGK) and Hicketts for Sundqvist. But With out Dunn I don't think it happens.
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Jul. 16, 2020 at 10:32 p.m.
#8
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I see what you're saying, @reelkena but here's the thing: Armstrong has already committed money to multiple other D that add up to a core unit. He also signed multiple guys to extensions that eat into the cap space being created for them this offseason (not close to 14M$). In other words, they're ****ed (They either make room for Petro by clearing less important pieces or loose one of the best #1D in the league for nothing)

This team is so cap strapped that they will NOT be able to retain both Petro (industry standard is 8-11M$ by 8 years for a guy of his calibre) and Dunn (3-4M$/yr on a 2-3 yr deal) without some MAJOR roster surgery (or good will discounts...LOL).

Let's look at what Armstrong has already committed to on the back end.

Parayko at 2 more years for 5.5. He does not have trade protection, but they would be silly to trade him, as his contract is very fair for how legitimately good he is.

Faulk just signed a 7 year deal w/ trade protection. For all intents and purposes, he's locked in.

Scandella just signed a 4 yr deal w/ trade protection as well so same goes for him.

Gunnarsson is signed for another year at a low hit, and Bortuzzo has another year on top of that. They're both stay at home and fairly limited when compared to Dunn, but this team values them, and they are signed already, which Dunn is not.

That's 5 guys signed to legitimate deals.

So, you say they want Dunn more than anybody on the roster... but, because math, they can realistically only have one of either Petro or Dunn.

Do they want Dunn more than Petro? That would be a more future oriented approach BUT this is a CLEAR win now team.

Further, does Berube truly trust the offensively gifted, yet young and mistake prone Dunn? They use him mainly on the PP. His TOI just dropped a full minute this season as well. (17:30 in '19 to 16:16 this past season)

So if you say Dunn is a nonstarter, fine. I've yet to speak to Armstrong myself, but it doesn't look to me like they'll be able to keep both, and I would think he'd rather resign the guy who wears the C and avg's 24 minutes a game.

To a couple of the things you mentioned, while yes, it would be great to be out of the last year of Steen's deal, he has trade protection and has played in STL for over a decade. Sure, he could do Armstrong a super solid and waive his clause, but that would be detrimental to his chances at winning again, as a contender isn't going to be able to afford him. Also, he is a super integral part of this core... he has locker room value and you can't quantify that.

So I don't see him being moved, because he probably wants to stay, and it would cost the team a lot to move that last year of his deal.

Concerning Tarasenko, they showed this year that clearly they could win without him. But he is also a dynamic goal scoring player who signed there to win a Cup. They accomplished that. You'd think they would want him around. Also, he has trade protection as well. Guys who AVG 30+ goals and 70+ points a year are rare and he is a legitimate homegrown super star.

My thinking with this initial proposal is that there's some players on this roster I don't see Armstrong moving in any scenario. Most of them have trade protection that Armstrong personally gave them on deals he signed, which means he told them, to their faces, they would be around. Sure, it's a business, but that still means something. They're also a great team that is in win now mode. As a team, they value continuity.

Players I don't see moving are Tarasenko, O'Reilly (no protection but... call me crazy but I bet he finishes his deal in STL), Schenn, Perron, Bozak and Schwartz.

Now, you could talk me into them moving Tarasenko because they were so good this year without him, BUT, he does have trade protection, so to even shop him they would have to approach him about it, and I just don't feel like that's something they'd do.

I'm sure Armstrong would like to move Steen and solve all his problems, but the guy has fallen off a cliff production wise (basically negative value to other teams) and has trade protection. I don't feel like it makes sense to even try to move him, but in a perfect world, you def start here.

To be real the movement of Allen is basically inevitable at this point. Detroit needs G help. I wouldn't even see it as a salary dump per se as the need is there on DET's end and STL should be able to get value back on any trade with Allen because the guy is talented and has legit numbers.

Sundqvist is the only other roster player on STL that I see being moved as he carries a legit cap hit, has value, and can create space by being moved.

I included Dunn because to sign Petro is to basically move on from Dunn. At least by moving Dunn you can get some legit ass value back on any trade.

If this team wants both Dunn and Petro, they'll need them both to take discounts, some other guys to waive their trade clauses, and some major roster surgery to create the space. Stay tuned!
Jul. 16, 2020 at 10:37 p.m.
#9
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@aedoran Good call. I was looking at DET's roster, marveling at the Abdelkader, Helm, and Nielsen deals and thought to myself "Holland, you son of a ****" and then I wrote that title. He's their spirit GM until Abdelkader is off the books bro.
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Jul. 16, 2020 at 10:47 p.m.
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Quoting: vmark
@aedoran Good call. I was looking at DET's roster, marveling at the Abdelkader, Helm, and Nielsen deals and thought to myself "Holland, you son of a ****" and then I wrote that title. He's their spirit GM until Abdelkader is off the books bro.


No worries I've done on a number of occasions.
Jul. 17, 2020 at 12:58 a.m.
#11
Fanboys make bad Gms
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I see what you're saying, @reelkena but here's the thing: Armstrong has already committed money to multiple other D that add up to a core unit. He also signed multiple guys to extensions that eat into the cap space being created for them this offseason (not close to 14M$). In other words, they're ****ed (They either make room for Petro by clearing less important pieces or loose one of the best #1D in the league for nothing)

This team is so cap strapped that they will NOT be able to retain both Petro (industry standard is 8-11M$ by 8 years for a guy of his calibre) and Dunn (3-4M$/yr on a 2-3 yr deal) without some MAJOR roster surgery (or good will discounts...LOL).

Let's look at what Armstrong has already committed to on the back end.

Parayko at 2 more years for 5.5. He does not have trade protection, but they would be silly to trade him, as his contract is very fair for how legitimately good he is.

Faulk just signed a 7 year deal w/ trade protection. For all intents and purposes, he's locked in.

Scandella just signed a 4 yr deal w/ trade protection as well so same goes for him.

Gunnarsson is signed for another year at a low hit, and Bortuzzo has another year on top of that. They're both stay at home and fairly limited when compared to Dunn, but this team values them, and they are signed already, which Dunn is not.

That's 5 guys signed to legitimate deals.

So, you say they want Dunn more than anybody on the roster... but, because math, they can realistically only have one of either Petro or Dunn.

Do they want Dunn more than Petro? That would be a more future oriented approach BUT this is a CLEAR win now team.

Further, does Berube truly trust the offensively gifted, yet young and mistake prone Dunn? They use him mainly on the PP. His TOI just dropped a full minute this season as well. (17:30 in '19 to 16:16 this past season)

So if you say Dunn is a nonstarter, fine. I've yet to speak to Armstrong myself, but it doesn't look to me like they'll be able to keep both, and I would think he'd rather resign the guy who wears the C and avg's 24 minutes a game.

To a couple of the things you mentioned, while yes, it would be great to be out of the last year of Steen's deal, he has trade protection and has played in STL for over a decade. Sure, he could do Armstrong a super solid and waive his clause, but that would be detrimental to his chances at winning again, as a contender isn't going to be able to afford him. Also, he is a super integral part of this core... he has locker room value and you can't quantify that.

So I don't see him being moved, because he probably wants to stay, and it would cost the team a lot to move that last year of his deal.

Concerning Tarasenko, they showed this year that clearly they could win without him. But he is also a dynamic goal scoring player who signed there to win a Cup. They accomplished that. You'd think they would want him around. Also, he has trade protection as well. Guys who AVG 30+ goals and 70+ points a year are rare and he is a legitimate homegrown super star.

My thinking with this initial proposal is that there's some players on this roster I don't see Armstrong moving in any scenario. Most of them have trade protection that Armstrong personally gave them on deals he signed, which means he told them, to their faces, they would be around. Sure, it's a business, but that still means something. They're also a great team that is in win now mode. As a team, they value continuity.

Players I don't see moving are Tarasenko, O'Reilly (no protection but... call me crazy but I bet he finishes his deal in STL), Schenn, Perron, Bozak and Schwartz.

Now, you could talk me into them moving Tarasenko because they were so good this year without him, BUT, he does have trade protection, so to even shop him they would have to approach him about it, and I just don't feel like that's something they'd do.

I'm sure Armstrong would like to move Steen and solve all his problems, but the guy has fallen off a cliff production wise (basically negative value to other teams) and has trade protection. I don't feel like it makes sense to even try to move him, but in a perfect world, you def start here.

To be real the movement of Allen is basically inevitable at this point. Detroit needs G help. I wouldn't even see it as a salary dump per se as the need is there on DET's end and STL should be able to get value back on any trade with Allen because the guy is talented and has legit numbers.

Sundqvist is the only other roster player on STL that I see being moved as he carries a legit cap hit, has value, and can create space by being moved.

I included Dunn because to sign Petro is to basically move on from Dunn. At least by moving Dunn you can get some legit ass value back on any trade.

If this team wants both Dunn and Petro, they'll need them both to take discounts, some other guys to waive their trade clauses, and some major roster surgery to create the space. Stay tuned!


I can't read all that. Doesn't help that I don't follow the Blues. But I saw you say Dunn at 3-4 million and if that is all he requires to stay you don't even care about Pietrangelo until that deal is locked down for the max term they'll sign for.
Jul. 18, 2020 at 12:33 p.m.
#12
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@reelkena I mean Dunn is an RFA, most likely bridge guy at the moment and this is a cap strapped, cup contending team. I doubt, if he resigns in STL, it will be for much more than that.

But also, to be frank, as a guy who follows the entire league quite closely my time strapped friend, ALL you care about right now if you're Armstrong is resigning Petro. This is a win now team and he is one of the best D in the entire league; he's in a class above, on the same level as guys like Doughty, Karlsson, Josi, and Carlson and he is the team captain.

It would be nice to have your cake and eat it too but Armstrong's cake was Justin Faulk and Marco Scandella. If he wouldn't have signed those extensions this wouldn't even be a conversation, and if they end up unable to sign Petro, it will be because of those two contracts more than anything else.
 
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