Hawks need to shed salary, the point in us trading saad in the offseason would be to shed his 6 mil cap hit now that he is more expendable with the pius suter addition. Otherwise we would just wait till the TDL. Maybe we retain 1 mil but thats the max. Thats why I don't think the pens make sense for saad. they can't really afford him without making other moves and they just gave up a lot for Zucker anyways who is a very similar player

Buffalo probably decline. I see no point in this deal, Miller looked good in second part of the season.

The only goaltender on that list under 30 is Lehner and he's 28, I just think we disagree dramatically on when Chicago's window reopens. And if you think Chicago is that close to contending, I also think there's a higher chance Jarry would help Chicago win a cup than the late 1st would in a couple of years

If you wait his value only goes down - 10 team NTC in season. Think you can shed cap elsewhere - not resigning Crawford and moving Maata for a late pick

On a 3 year deal yes

We do disagree on when Chicago's window reopens. CHI does indeed need to find their goalie for the future, but it doesn't have to be today...and while I do think PIT 100% got better. I don't think that for CHI. They'd definitively be worse tomorrow and while I do think Jarry has value...this off season ALL goalies have their trade value severly diminished. ECON 101 Too much supply (way to many goalies looking for jobs) lowers demand.

What do you think about dropping the retention on saad but combining the hawks deal with the Johnson dump. Something like this:
To CHI: Jarry, Johnson, Hallander, 2021 PIT 2nd
To PIT: Saad, 2020 CHI 4th

Yes but by that same logic players like Saad's value is also diminished with UFAs like Hall, Dadonov, and Hoffman available. Teams will always pay for the players they want. The price is the price

Drop the Chicago 4th and pick one of Hallander or the 2nd and sure. Also fine with one of Lafferty or Rodrigues instead of one of those pieces.

Just like Malcolm Subban's draft pedigree? Again, Jarry would be moving to a team with a significantly worse defensive structure, and trading for him with an asset that could bring in a better return elsewhere makes little sense, especially if the Hawks have to retain salary to make that move.

Johnson's deal has 3 years left, I think it would take more than just hallander to dump him in the flat cap era

They were trying to raise Zach Bogosian’s trade value, that’s why Miller was scratched. which cost the Sabres from making the playoffs.

Malcolm never played as well in the NHL as Jarry so that's just a complete false equivalency. I also disagree with the premise that the defensive structure is that much worse, as the East is in general plays a more offensive game he had to deal with. The retained salary (again) just makes the deal cap neutral so I don't view it as that much of a hang up. Wherever Saad moves there will likely be retention or cap coming back. Feel free to trade him for a late 1st but at the end of the day that's more of a magic bean than Jarry is. The deal likely makes Chicago better longer term

His buyout is not that terrible and he's a slightly overpaid #5 on half the teams in the league. He's less of a cap dump than people think, for a second round pick sure but not willing to part with much more

hmmm...I want to agree with the 2nd part, but COVID makes me uncertain to just say yes automatically. I agree that's how history has played out though.

I don't agree with the 1st part. When a team KNOWS that they're likely to make the playoffs they're looking for pending UFAs. Give up a short term unknown for a potential big pay off. CGY and Erik Gustafsson. Why is TOR taking on temporary cap...they know it'll come off the books and they can get an asset for it. Why is Vegas giving up anything for Lehner....they couldn't afford it in the offseason.

It's why when you go look at the TDL there are money pending UFAs than players with term.

Ah I thought it was the lack of middle 6 wing and center depth, never would have guessed it was scratching Miller

Yes but underpaid players with team control > underpaid players with term > UFAs > anyone overpaid in terms of contract value. I put Jarry in the first category, Saad in the second to last, which is why I think the deal evens out

If Hallander is the piece coming back, DET jumps all over that. I could deal with JJ for 3 more years to get a crack at Hallander (also, you could dump him in GR and expose him in the expansion draft).

That too. But Bogosian not being able to skate due to 6 hip surgery’s didn’t help. Either way there’s no room for
Bjugstad.

? 2C, 3C, or 3RW all seem pretty open as an outside fan. Especially compared to RD

The point is that draft position doesn't really mean jack **** for goalies. And I guess I have to keep reminding you that the Pens faced the 6th FEWEST shots in the league per game compared to the Hawks, who face the MOST. This move makes Pittsburgh the clear winner, without factoring in the retained salary. Saad won't necessarily have to have salary retained to be moved, especially if he's traded for a decent player and B or C level prospect. This deal likely doesn't make Chicago any better in the short term or long term because they would be losing one of their better defensive players, thereby weakening team defense, meaning their goalies (whoever it is come next season) will still be in a position to fail. The only way this helps in the long term is by better our draft odds in the next few years.

You can get a better 2c Haula in free agency, I would rather have Johansson as 2c again, Kahun is plying RW in Buffalo. And Cozens will probably start off on the wing.

Just agree to disagree on most of that, try not to get so worked up from strangers on the internet

Yes but Haula also is more of a risk as he'll get paid as one of the top C available. Bjugstad would just be a try out for a year (likely as the 3C), worst case he cost you your 4RD and you get the conditional pick. If Haula doesn't work out after getting paid, it's way more of an issue

Buddy, this is the internet. I'm SUPPOSED to be angry online.

But yeah, agree to disagree and all that jazz