Forums/Trade Machine Proposals

Hughes Reunited Pt2

Created by: vmark
Published: Jul 21, 2020 at 2:01
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Season Days: 41/186 (22%)
Central Registry Determination: This trade has met the central registry's trade checklist

New Jersey DevilsNew Jersey Devils

OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Hughes, JackWaivers ExemptNew Jersey DevilsNHL-$203,897111---6171421
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Virtanen, JakeVancouver CanucksNHL-$275,537111---69181836
Juolevi, OlliWaivers ExemptVancouver CanucksMinor-$0011---0000
Gaudette, AdamVancouver CanucksNHL-$202,061111---59132033
2021 1st round pick (Vancouver CanucksVAN)------------
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$18,010,8342145685514
Change-$273,701122100
Final$17,737,133 (↓)22 (↑)47 (↑)70 (↑)6 (↑)514242448

Vancouver CanucksVancouver Canucks

Trade occurred while using LTIR
LTIR Relief: $8,666,667
LTIR Used Prior to Trade: $4,697,500
OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Virtanen, JakeVancouver CanucksNHL-$1,250,000111---69181836
Juolevi, OlliWaivers ExemptVancouver CanucksMinor-$0011---0000
Gaudette, AdamVancouver CanucksNHL-$916,667111---59132033
2021 1st round pick (Vancouver CanucksVAN)------------
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Hughes, JackWaivers ExemptNew Jersey DevilsNHL-$925,000111---6171421
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$3,969,1672448633512
Change$1,241,667-1-2-2-100
Final$5,210,834 (↑)23 (↓)46 (↓)61 (↓)2 (↓)512-24-240
Jul 21, 2020 at 2:04
#1
yinzguhyz.com
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 63
Likes: 19
I was thinking about adding some more draft capital on VAN's side, but this is a tough one to nail down. Of course you could say that Jersey isn't getting enough, but if you really look at each of those pieces, they're pretty solid pieces.

Nobody is saying Jack is about to end up being the next Yakupov, but that's more likely now than any year since '12.

I wanted to include Eriksson, but then it just became an incredibly large deal because of what he would cost VAN to part with as well as those pieces above.
reelkena liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 2:17
#2
Fanboys make bad Gms
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3,010
Likes: 1,421
Quoting: vmark
I was thinking about adding some more draft capital on VAN's side, but this is a tough one to nail down. Of course you could say that Jersey isn't getting enough, but if you really look at each of those pieces, they're pretty solid pieces.

Nobody is saying Jack is about to end up being the next Yakupov, but that's more likely now than any year since '12.

I wanted to include Eriksson, but then it just became an incredibly large deal because of what he would cost VAN to part with as well as those pieces above.


Before a bunch of people comment this will never happen, we know this will happen. Put that aside. This isn't bad. I would feel bad from Van's side losing all this. but that just means NJ is getting good stuff because I know they'd hurt giving up on Jack.

8/10
remowilliams and vmark liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 4:36
#3
Romanov for Calder
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 1,026
This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?
reelkena, vmark and remowilliams liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 4:44
#4
Fanboys make bad Gms
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3,010
Likes: 1,421
Quoting: HabsFan9
This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?


Van's thinking would clearly be "we'll make room. another trade later is fine"
HabsFan9, vmark and remowilliams liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 8:17
#5
2018 Canucks
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 880
Likes: 289
Cap wise this would solve a lot of issues for the Canucks. Allowing to resign all key pieces.

Lots of good pieces for NJ.
JV can play either wing in the the top 9 maybe top 6
OJ LHD top 4 ceiling
Gaudette good 3C for sure upside a 2C

NJ still keeps top 2-1sts & fills many holes.
Canucks depth takes a fair hit but if Jack can be fit in a position to excel it could work but where is that?

Also giving up the 1st is my only hang up.
vmark and remowilliams liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 9:12
#6
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 3,082
Likes: 1,517
Quoting: HabsFan9
This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?


Probably the 2nd line left winger after Pearson's contract expires
vmark, HabsFan9 and remowilliams liked this.
Jul 21, 2020 at 9:43
#7
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 5,514
Why on earth would the Devils do this? They get 3 ok players and a late first for Jack Hughes? Not a chance.
math731 and remowilliams liked this.
Jul 22, 2020 at 5:54
#8
Thread Starter
yinzguhyz.com
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 63
Likes: 19
@Nighthawk My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

@Kotkaniemi15 NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above
remowilliams liked this.
Jul 22, 2020 at 10:33
#9
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 447
Likes: 119
Quoting: vmark
@Nighthawk My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

@Kotkaniemi15 NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above


well said
vmark liked this.
Jul 22, 2020 at 10:01
#10
Thread Starter
yinzguhyz.com
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 63
Likes: 19
@remowilliams Appreciate it bud! Thanks for reading
 
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