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They Should Try These Lines

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 28, 2020
Published: Jul. 28, 2020
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One of the biggest takeaways from today's game was that the Pens third line consisting of Marleau-McCann-Hornqvist did not seem to have a lot of chemistry. It's their first game together, so maybe it'll take some time to jell, but there just doesn't seem to be enough speed from the wingers to generate any quality chances. Personally, I've never liked the idea of Hornqvist on the third line. Given his skillset & goal scoring ability, he needs to be in the top 6.
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 6:54 p.m.
#1
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So you want to take one of today's goal scorers out of the lineup? Is that what you're saying? Really?
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 6:56 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
So you want to take one of today's goal scorers out of the lineup? Is that what you're saying? Really?


Exactly. Sheary looked good today. And Johnson/Schultz we’re both over 60%CF.

I wouldn’t change a thing
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 7:04 p.m.
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Hornqvist doesn’t fit anywhere else. 1 of the 4 lines didn’t look as good. Would be silly to break it all up on the other lines to fix one line. Hornqvist doesn’t really fit anywhere else but the 3rd line. Crosby doesn’t want him on his line cause he is too slow, not going to break up Malkin and rust. Not going to break up the fourth line either.
Jul. 28, 2020 at 7:13 p.m.
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
So you want to take one of today's goal scorers out of the lineup? Is that what you're saying? Really?


It’s not only about the goals. Sheary had a number of other chances today & he missed them. If it were Hornqvist, he would’ve scored.
Jul. 28, 2020 at 7:14 p.m.
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Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly. Sheary looked good today. And Johnson/Schultz we’re both over 60%CF.

I wouldn’t change a thing


Yeah no doubt the third pairing played well tonight. But it’s only 1 game out of the several they’ve played together over the years, so we’re gonna need to see more of this to believe it.
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 7:17 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Pensfan89
Hornqvist doesn’t fit anywhere else. 1 of the 4 lines didn’t look as good. Would be silly to break it all up on the other lines to fix one line. Hornqvist doesn’t really fit anywhere else but the 3rd line. Crosby doesn’t want him on his line cause he is too slow, not going to break up Malkin and rust. Not going to break up the fourth line either.


I understand that Sid prefers not to play w/him but historically, the top line has always performed its best, especially in the playoffs, with Horny on it. So really, they won’t be changing much other than making the top line better & adding speed to the McCann line.
Jul. 28, 2020 at 8:18 p.m.
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Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly. Sheary looked good today. And Johnson/Schultz we’re both over 60%CF.

I wouldn’t change a thing


Coming around on Johnson? He's been steady all season long.
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 8:23 p.m.
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
Coming around on Johnson? He's been steady all season long.


It’s been a while since I’ve seen you post haha welcome back. Johnson is fine in a sheltered role but once the injuries piled up and he started playing 20+ mins a night he looked out of place. If pens are healthy and he’s bottom pairing D he’s fine in that roll
Jul. 28, 2020 at 8:28 p.m.
#9
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yesterday you were telling me johnson is a top defenseman. you have him scratched. explain?
Jul. 28, 2020 at 9:13 p.m.
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Quoting: mhockey91
It’s been a while since I’ve seen you post haha welcome back. Johnson is fine in a sheltered role but once the injuries piled up and he started playing 20+ mins a night he looked out of place. If pens are healthy and he’s bottom pairing D he’s fine in that roll


I stopped posting because there was no hockey to post about. I've been saying that about Johnson since then pens got him.
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Jul. 28, 2020 at 9:21 p.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
It’s not only about the goals. Sheary had a number of other chances today & he missed them. If it were Hornqvist, he would’ve scored.


So you have a crystal ball? If not, what makes you think Hornqvist scores today if he were on the first line rather than the 3rd? If Hornqvist is on the first line, probably isn’t even in positions to score like Sheary was.

Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
I understand that Sid prefers not to play w/him but historically, the top line has always performed its best, especially in the playoffs, with Horny on it. So really, they won’t be changing much other than making the top line better & adding speed to the McCann line.


Historically the top line has done better with Sheary on it over Hornqvist. So no it wouldn’t make it better. Plus the success Hornqvist has had on it was a few years ago. He’s older, slower, and taken a lot more of a beating since then. Don’t really need to add speed to the McCann line. Especially when you add someone that doesn’t really score to the line. Once the real games start, that third line will be fine. Hornqvist and Marleau were simply playing not to get hurt. Once they start real games and lay it on the line, that line will be better.
Jul. 28, 2020 at 9:43 p.m.
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
I stopped posting because there was no hockey to post about. I've been saying that about Johnson since then pens got him.


Jack Johnson can be a solid defenceman depending on his role & partner. He needs to play alongside a reliable shutdown D who takes care of the opposition cycling & on the forecheck so he can more effectively move the puck. That’s why alongside Marino & Savard, he was so exceptional. However, when he plays with Letang or Schultz who are more offensive-minded / risk takers, he struggles cuz he’s not good enough defensively to be the primary shutdown guy on his pair.

I feel Johnson would make an excellent fit here in Toronto. He’s exactly what we need, top 4 minute eating RD who has a 2 wag presence.

I’ve been contemplating the idea of trading Mitch Marner for Patric Hornqvist, Sam Lafferty, Jack Johnson & Chad Ruhwedel. What’d you think?
Jul. 28, 2020 at 10:36 p.m.
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Quoting: Pensfan89
So you have a crystal ball? If not, what makes you think Hornqvist scores today if he were on the first line rather than the 3rd? If Hornqvist is on the first line, probably isn’t even in positions to score like Sheary was.



Historically the top line has done better with Sheary on it over Hornqvist. So no it wouldn’t make it better. Plus the success Hornqvist has had on it was a few years ago. He’s older, slower, and taken a lot more of a beating since then. Don’t really need to add speed to the McCann line. Especially when you add someone that doesn’t really score to the line. Once the real games start, that third line will be fine. Hornqvist and Marleau were simply playing not to get hurt. Once they start real games and lay it on the line, that line will be better.


What are the stats that say the line plays better with Sheary on it? During the 2017 playoffs, Sheary played 3 games w/Sid & Jake vs Columbus, scored 1 point & then got replaced by Hornqvist. He didn’t earn his spot back until the Predators series.

During the 2018 playoffs, the Pens top line was Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist. Hornqvist had 11 points in 10 games, but most importantly, he drove to the net & retrieved pucks in the dirty area allowing Guentzel & Crosby to have more space to use their skillset. This allowed Guentzel & Crosby to score 21 points in 12 games. That is the highest scoring rate since Gretzky in 1993.

I agree Hornqvist has been declining, but even last season when they put him w/Sid & Jake during the regular season, the line scored several goals & had a very high expected goals rate (they only fared better w/Simon who’s now injured).
Jul. 29, 2020 at 4:16 a.m.
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They need to sit Marleau and play Lafferty or Rodrigues instead on that 3rd line.

That was an awful acquisition and they paid way to much for it.

I have been saying this for some time. The 3rd line is the new 4th line.

The top 2 lines are what they are. They simply don't have a better winger for Sid unless they give Poulin a chance to play.
The 4th line is straight fire.
That hodge podge of junk on the 3rd line shouldn't play more than 8 minutes a night.
If they were smart they would Put McCann on the top line with Sid and Jake, throw out Marleau put Lafferty at center and be done with it.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 9:56 a.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Jack Johnson can be a solid defenceman depending on his role & partner. He needs to play alongside a reliable shutdown D who takes care of the opposition cycling & on the forecheck so he can more effectively move the puck. That’s why alongside Marino & Savard, he was so exceptional. However, when he plays with Letang or Schultz who are more offensive-minded / risk takers, he struggles cuz he’s not good enough defensively to be the primary shutdown guy on his pair.

I feel Johnson would make an excellent fit here in Toronto. He’s exactly what we need, top 4 minute eating RD who has a 2 wag presence.

I’ve been contemplating the idea of trading Mitch Marner for Patric Hornqvist, Sam Lafferty, Jack Johnson & Chad Ruhwedel. What’d you think?


Is that a serious trade idea? It can't be.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 10:03 a.m.
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
Is that a serious trade idea? It can't be.


it is. he spams it to everyone on twitter.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 11:33 a.m.
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Quoting: pharrow
They need to sit Marleau and play Lafferty or Rodrigues instead on that 3rd line.

That was an awful acquisition and they paid way to much for it.

I have been saying this for some time. The 3rd line is the new 4th line.

The top 2 lines are what they are. They simply don't have a better winger for Sid unless they give Poulin a chance to play.
The 4th line is straight fire.
That hodge podge of junk on the 3rd line shouldn't play more than 8 minutes a night.
If they were smart they would Put McCann on the top line with Sid and Jake, throw out Marleau put Lafferty at center and be done with it.


I think they brought in Marleau because they felt he would replicate the impact of Guerin & Cullen as old superstars. But the game is faster than ever & players of that age, especially for someone like Marleau who relied on his speed in his prime, can’t keep up anymore. They didn’t need to acquire him & certainly didn’t need to give up a third.

I like your idea. Perhaps they could roll:

McCann-Crosby-Guentzel
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Erod-Lafferty-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Jul. 29, 2020 at 11:34 a.m.
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Quoting: DonkeyLips
Is that a serious trade idea? It can't be.


Yes of course it’s serious, I don’t understand why you think it’s a joke. Like I said, TOR is in Cap hell, they need to fill several holes within the roster. Trading a big salary superstar player like Marner allows them to resolve both of those issues.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 11:35 a.m.
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Quoting: mondo
yesterday you were telling me johnson is a top defenseman. you have him scratched. explain?


Well, like I said, JJ plays well depending on who he’s paired with & who his partner is. I just don’t see the benefit of playing him alongside Schultz, so I scratched him. I also scratched Schultz cuz he stinks in general.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 11:48 a.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yes of course it’s serious, I don’t understand why you think it’s a joke. Like I said, TOR is in Cap hell, they need to fill several holes within the roster. Trading a big salary superstar player like Marner allows them to resolve both of those issues.


Please make a post of that on here. Please.
Jul. 29, 2020 at 11:36 p.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
What are the stats that say the line plays better with Sheary on it? During the 2017 playoffs, Sheary played 3 games w/Sid & Jake vs Columbus, scored 1 point & then got replaced by Hornqvist. He didn’t earn his spot back until the Predators series.

During the 2018 playoffs, the Pens top line was Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist. Hornqvist had 11 points in 10 games, but most importantly, he drove to the net & retrieved pucks in the dirty area allowing Guentzel & Crosby to have more space to use their skillset. This allowed Guentzel & Crosby to score 21 points in 12 games. That is the highest scoring rate since Gretzky in 1993.

I agree Hornqvist has been declining, but even last season when they put him w/Sid & Jake during the regular season, the line scored several goals & had a very high expected goals rate (they only fared better w/Simon who’s now injured).


Ummm the whole 16-17 season. He had 53 points playing on crosbys wing for the majority of the season. That was a much larger sample size than the handful of games Hornqvist played well. And again, that was 3 years ago. Hornqvist is older, slower, and taken quite the beating since. He’s not the same player. Sheary is still young. One is soon to be 34, the other just turned 28.
As for the 17 playoffs, Hornqvist played the majority on sids line and scored 9 points. Sheary had 7 points and only played 6-7 games with Crosby? So how can you even believe Hornqvist is a better fit than Sheary lol.
Most importantly, sid doesn’t like playing with him. You don’t tell your face of the franchise to f*** off just to appease Hornqvist. It goes the other way around.

Btw. In 17-18 he only played 10% of the time with Crosby and Guentzel and that line was tied for his worst offensive production. His best production came on the second line with Malkin and Hagelin. Which is where he played the majority of the season.
Jul. 30, 2020 at 4:27 p.m.
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Quoting: Pensfan89
Ummm the whole 16-17 season. He had 53 points playing on crosbys wing for the majority of the season. That was a much larger sample size than the handful of games Hornqvist played well. And again, that was 3 years ago. Hornqvist is older, slower, and taken quite the beating since. He’s not the same player. Sheary is still young. One is soon to be 34, the other just turned 28.
As for the 17 playoffs, Hornqvist played the majority on sids line and scored 9 points. Sheary had 7 points and only played 6-7 games with Crosby? So how can you even believe Hornqvist is a better fit than Sheary lol.
Most importantly, sid doesn’t like playing with him. You don’t tell your face of the franchise to f*** off just to appease Hornqvist. It goes the other way around.

Btw. In 17-18 he only played 10% of the time with Crosby and Guentzel and that line was tied for his worst offensive production. His best production came on the second line with Malkin and Hagelin. Which is where he played the majority of the season.


IIRC, during the 2017 playoffs, Sheary got taken off Crosby's line after game 4 vs CBJ cuz of his poor performance. He was replaced by Hornqvist, who created 2 goals in game 1 vs WSH, then both him & Sid got hurt & they weren't reunited after that. Rust played in that spot until they put Sheary back for the finals.

So yes, you're right that Sheary's success was for a longer period of time, but that regular season was basically the only stretch of his career in which he's played like an elite hockey player. Hornqvist, though with a smaller sample size, was at least able to perform on that line when it mattered most (2018 playoffs). Plus he's been a top-line player scoring 20-30 goals a season his whole career.
Jul. 31, 2020 at 6:42 p.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
IIRC, during the 2017 playoffs, Sheary got taken off Crosby's line after game 4 vs CBJ cuz of his poor performance. He was replaced by Hornqvist, who created 2 goals in game 1 vs WSH, then both him & Sid got hurt & they weren't reunited after that. Rust played in that spot until they put Sheary back for the finals.

So yes, you're right that Sheary's success was for a longer period of time, but that regular season was basically the only stretch of his career in which he's played like an elite hockey player. Hornqvist, though with a smaller sample size, was at least able to perform on that line when it mattered most (2018 playoffs). Plus he's been a top-line player scoring 20-30 goals a season his whole career.


Yeah but not with Crosby lol. He had a short stint where they played well. But the last few times they tried it, notably this year and last year he stunk on crosbys line. He has played his best in a middle 6 role. Whereas Sheary has played his best with Crosby. And with Simon out, he is the best option outside of Zucker.
Jul. 31, 2020 at 10:45 p.m.
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Quoting: Pensfan89
Yeah but not with Crosby lol. He had a short stint where they played well. But the last few times they tried it, notably this year and last year he stunk on crosbys line. He has played his best in a middle 6 role. Whereas Sheary has played his best with Crosby. And with Simon out, he is the best option outside of Zucker.


I mean, during the 2016 playoffs Horny was on a line w/Sid doing the dirty work by retrieving pucks & driving to the net. Sid played the best hockey of his career during that stretch. I guess Sheary will work, but he is just not a highly regarded player by the fanbase.
Aug. 1, 2020 at 12:23 p.m.
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
I mean, during the 2016 playoffs Horny was on a line w/Sid doing the dirty work by retrieving pucks & driving to the net. Sid played the best hockey of his career during that stretch. I guess Sheary will work, but he is just not a highly regarded player by the fanbase.

Yeah but Sheary was also on that line too lol. And again, back then Horny was in the middle of his prime. He’s no longer there. Sheary is heading into what should be his prime now.
 
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