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DUNN x CHOLO

Created by: SweetRevenge19
Team: 2020-21 Detroit Red Wings
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 13, 2020
Published: Aug. 13, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Instead of not matching and taking the 2nd rd compensation, the teams agree to these terms.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$4,250,000
7$6,000,000
2$2,500,000
1$850,000
1$900,000
1$950,000
3$4,250,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$2,500,000
Trades
DET
  1. Dunn, Vince [RFA Rights]
STL
  1. Cholowski, Dennis
  2. 2021 3rd round pick (VGK)
Buyouts
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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Logo of the WSH
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Logo of the SJS
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Logo of the DET
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Logo of the DET
2021
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$62,463,291$0$1,990,000$19,036,709
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$4,250,000$4,250,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$6,100,000$6,100,000
C
UFA - 3
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$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$850,000$850,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,850,000$3,850,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$874,125$874,125
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$950,000$950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,800,000$1,800,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
$4,250,000$4,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$714,166$714,166 (Performance Bonus$157,500$158K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,000,000$3,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,167$894,167
RD
RFA - 4
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$2,500,000$2,500,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$875,000$875,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$6,083,333$6,083,333
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$5,250,000$5,250,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$900,000$900,000
C, LW
UFA

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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:20 p.m.
#1
Sam
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Lol so bad
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:25 p.m.
#2
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Dunn is pretty much what Detroit was hoping Cholowski would be.
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:26 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: STLBlues17
Lol so bad


What’s your other option.
You’re going to lose Dunn or Pietrangelo. That’s why you traded for Faulk and Scandella and extended them both.
You also have Perunovich ready to replace Dunn
Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:33 p.m.
#4
Sam
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
What’s your other option.
You’re going to lose Dunn or Pietrangelo. That’s why you traded for Faulk and Scandella and extended them both.
You also have Perunovich ready to replace Dunn


I’d be shocked and disappointed if Dunn is a cap casualty and if he is he’ll get something significantly better than two pieces that will likely never play for the Blues.
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:48 p.m.
#5
Pop Pop
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Quoting: STLBlues17
I’d be shocked and disappointed if Dunn is a cap casualty and if he is he’ll get something significantly better than two pieces that will likely never play for the Blues.


You cant let a piece like dunn go, id like him in Detroit but yeah thats not the deal.
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:49 p.m.
#6
Pop Pop
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If that was all it costs sure but hes worth way more. Could try offershedting him and overpaying maybe
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 6:50 p.m.
#7
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Bet shot is trying to sign that 4.2M OS for like 2 years assuming he will sign it. Our first rounder is worth way too much and our second rounder doesn’t help the Blues with their current window and isn’t enough.
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 7:08 p.m.
#8
mokumboi
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C'mon, man.
Aug. 13, 2020 at 7:11 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
What’s your other option.
You’re going to lose Dunn or Pietrangelo. That’s why you traded for Faulk and Scandella and extended them both.
You also have Perunovich ready to replace Dunn

Perunovich is replacing Dunn Perunovich Scandella assuming Faulk is picked in the expansion Petro Parayko Bortuzzo
Aug. 13, 2020 at 7:23 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Pietrangelo due to cap hit probably takes what he was going to before and Dunn is our best LHD and will take a bridge deal for cheap. Getting rid of Bozak Steen Allen helps us more than doing that. If you expect that to be accept as a homer Detroit fan you are beyond mentally ret*rded sir. This was the same thing with Point “oh they won’t be able to sign him they don’t have cap Hahahahahahaha” yeah then they signed him. So it’s honestly not a must trade and even at that this doesn’t even reach close to a fair offer.


Remove mentally **** from your vocabulary as an insult. There are plenty more to choose from.
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Aug. 13, 2020 at 7:26 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
Remove mentally **** from your vocabulary as an insult. There are plenty more to choose from.


And apparently you type ret*rded enough to know that the site auto censors the characters. Character you lack, “sir”
Aug. 13, 2020 at 7:32 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Pietrangelo due to cap hit probably takes what he was going to before and Dunn is our best LHD and will take a bridge deal for cheap. Getting rid of Bozak Steen Allen helps us more than doing that. If you expect that to be accept as a homer Detroit fan you are beyond mentally ret*rded sir. This was the same thing with Point “oh they won’t be able to sign him they don’t have cap Hahahahahahaha” yeah then they signed him. So it’s honestly not a must trade and even at that this doesn’t even reach close to a fair offer.


So what is a fair offer then.
Bc you are going to lose a player. Just like Tampa will lose a player or two this offseason. Trading assets for Faulk, signing him.. just to lose him to Seattle doesn’t really seem like your teams master plan.
Or are you too big of a homer to see that
Aug. 13, 2020 at 8:41 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: STLBlues17
I’d be shocked and disappointed if Dunn is a cap casualty and if he is he’ll get something significantly better than two pieces that will likely never play for the Blues.


The "two pieces" comment is right-on. Realistically two pieces is what Dunn would bring, but his value is certainly higher than what likely is returned. The dude is an offensive dynamo who doesn't get enough minutes in the Blues defense-first structure. For a team like Detroit, Dunn would become a centerpiece and a stud, and the return to the Blues would look paltry in the aftermath. Dunn may perhaps get moved, but if Army is dead=set on moving him, he'd be wise to force what seems at the time an overpay, because once Dunn starts playing 25 minutes a night, it will not be an overpay.
Aug. 13, 2020 at 9:02 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
So what is a fair offer then.
Bc you are going to lose a player. Just like Tampa will lose a player or two this offseason. Trading assets for Faulk, signing him.. just to lose him to Seattle doesn’t really seem like your teams master plan.
Or are you too big of a homer to see that


We signed him then saw what he did I wasn’t a fan of him to begin with. So it does make sense for one, and 2 Im a hockey enthusiast more than a Blues fan nowadays yes I pay a lot of attention to Blues but I pay a lot of attention to other teams to enough time know Dunn’s advanced stats compared to let’s say Werenski AND Jones in Columbus. Dunn best them both out in Advanced stats. So I’ll let you figure out how much you think he is worth.
Aug. 13, 2020 at 9:29 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: rja40
The "two pieces" comment is right-on. Realistically two pieces is what Dunn would bring, but his value is certainly higher than what likely is returned. The dude is an offensive dynamo who doesn't get enough minutes in the Blues defense-first structure. For a team like Detroit, Dunn would become a centerpiece and a stud, and the return to the Blues would look paltry in the aftermath. Dunn may perhaps get moved, but if Army is dead=set on moving him, he'd be wise to force what seems at the time an overpay, because once Dunn starts playing 25 minutes a night, it will not be an overpay.

What do you consider fair value for him?
Aug. 13, 2020 at 9:59 p.m.
#16
Red Wing Nut
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Dunn is intriguing but wings not moving cholo just yet..hes 1st rounder ..not giving up on him yet sorry
Aug. 13, 2020 at 10:05 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: BStinson
What do you consider fair value for him?


That's not really an easy answer due to Dunn's current predicament, but I'll try. Dunn is legitimately a poor man's Quinn Hughes talent-wise. An offense can run through him and the Corsi numbers support this. However, he doesn't get the time on ice needed to play to his strengths. On a team like the Blues, he is sort of a luxury, which is why Bouwmeester and then Scandella ate/eat up most of the minutes. Gunnarsson is flat out sound at all aspects of the game but dominant in none. Bouw and Scandella have more of a complete game, and Gunnar rarely is out of position. For the Blues, these are the types of guys who play. The Blues system relies on heavy defense, puck possession, relentless forechecking and scoring that comes from the turnovers and puck possession. Dunn simply does not play that heavy defense. He is truly a "modern" defenseman, but I don't know what a "modern" defenseman is worth since so few of those trades have occurred at the early stages of this newer style of defense. The Blues need a scoring LWer. A secondary need would be a RHD, especially if Petro goes elsewhere because Faulk will probably be the Seattle selection even if it costs us a valuable pick. I would ask Detroit if they were willing to build a trade around Dunn and Zadina. I know Zadina is highly thought of and may be off limits, but it would fit the Blues needs. My second ask would be Joe Veleno since he has such a well-rounded game and could perhaps play LW. I also like Givani Smith, but I don't think he alone gets Dunn since he likely tops out as a third liner. I also know Detroit could use a solid goalie.

How about Dunn and Allen (with $1.3 million retained on Allen so his cost is $3 million) for Zadina and G. Lindstrom? If picks need to be involved, then so be it. That could be settled to finalize a deal. I think it is a win-win for both teams. Dunn will become a stud for Detroit. Allen at a minimum holds the fort for a year at an affordable cost and can be extended if Detroit likes him. The Blues get a young, scoring LWer and a RHD that may be able to step into the lineup within a year and a half to two years max.
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Aug. 14, 2020 at 12:11 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: rja40
That's not really an easy answer due to Dunn's current predicament, but I'll try. Dunn is legitimately a poor man's Quinn Hughes talent-wise. An offense can run through him and the Corsi numbers support this. However, he doesn't get the time on ice needed to play to his strengths. On a team like the Blues, he is sort of a luxury, which is why Bouwmeester and then Scandella ate/eat up most of the minutes. Gunnarsson is flat out sound at all aspects of the game but dominant in none. Bouw and Scandella have more of a complete game, and Gunnar rarely is out of position. For the Blues, these are the types of guys who play. The Blues system relies on heavy defense, puck possession, relentless forechecking and scoring that comes from the turnovers and puck possession. Dunn simply does not play that heavy defense. He is truly a "modern" defenseman, but I don't know what a "modern" defenseman is worth since so few of those trades have occurred at the early stages of this newer style of defense. The Blues need a scoring LWer. A secondary need would be a RHD, especially if Petro goes elsewhere because Faulk will probably be the Seattle selection even if it costs us a valuable pick. I would ask Detroit if they were willing to build a trade around Dunn and Zadina. I know Zadina is highly thought of and may be off limits, but it would fit the Blues needs. My second ask would be Joe Veleno since he has such a well-rounded game and could perhaps play LW. I also like Givani Smith, but I don't think he alone gets Dunn since he likely tops out as a third liner. I also know Detroit could use a solid goalie.

How about Dunn and Allen (with $1.3 million retained on Allen so his cost is $3 million) for Zadina and G. Lindstrom? If picks need to be involved, then so be it. That could be settled to finalize a deal. I think it is a win-win for both teams. Dunn will become a stud for Detroit. Allen at a minimum holds the fort for a year at an affordable cost and can be extended if Detroit likes him. The Blues get a young, scoring LWer and a RHD that may be able to step into the lineup within a year and a half to two years max.


Thanks for the input. Yeah, Zadina is “untouchable” in the sense it would require an overpayment. He’s made great strides and although he hasn’t posted amazing numbers yet ~.5 PPG he’s been playing with some extremely subpar players (Filppula, Nielsen, etc.) I wouldn’t utilize him in a package unless it was returning a bonafide top pairing potential guy and I don’t see that in Dunn. The value of Allen to us isn’t great because he would be a rental on a dumpster fire of a team and the retention isn’t need since we have roughly 40M cap space. If you’re looking for a RHD that actually plays defense something like WSH 2020 2nd + DRW 2021 2nd + Lindstrom which would net an additional 2nd and Lindstrom over that 4.2M OS or it could be adjusted to include a buy out of Steen.
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Aug. 14, 2020 at 12:28 a.m.
#19
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The offer sheet isn't very threatening imo. For one, it is a big assumption to say we'll extend Petro and be in cap hell. They probably could've come to a deal a long time ago - before GMDA filled the cap space with Faulk and scandella - if there was middle ground to find. If Armstrong does extend Petro, it will be bc he is confident that he'll be able to make it work without losing a guy like Dunn to an OS. Plus, offer sheets can only go out in the free agency period. As an RFA without arbitration, I feel like the sides will come to a deal long before then. Dunn doesn't have a ton of leverage so both sides would probably be fine with a 2 yr bridge.
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Aug. 14, 2020 at 1:03 a.m.
#20
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Interesting. Funny thing is we passed on Quinn taking Zadina the pick earlier.
Yah thanks for your insight. That was helpful. Wasn’t trying to low ball, just trying to find out Dunn’s trade value if any two teams can sidestep him signing an offer sheet. Bc for us we can’t include a 2021 1st, but I knew it needed to be better than just the 4.2 mil compensation 2nd rd pick offer. Our organization still believes in Cholowski, but if he doesn’t step up this year then he will begin getting passed by Jared McIsaac and Albert Johansson, two strong LD prospects for us. Wondering how Cholowski would have developed surrounded by STL strong D corps earlier. Skilled top six forward prospects, scoring/depth scoring are our biggest weaknesses, so it would be very hard to part with either Zadina or Veleno and since they’re also the closest to NHL. It just puts us further away. We’d be better off going after Krug to run the PP. Our RD prospects, Seider, Gustav Lindstrom and Antti Tuomisto, all had strong years. Givani Smith is a beast, we like him, he’s ready for the show and he’d be a great fit on the Blues. But many prospects close enough to NHL to offer Blues.

I think some of our veterans could fit well on the Blues. LD Patrik Nemeth. He’s a big body, hard to play against, makes simple plays/exits. A 5-6th D on good team was getting top pair minutes bc of our injuries and had a good season. Which was how we got him from the Avs, we offered a bigger opportunity. And he delivered. Will fetch us a 2 at the deadline like Scandella, maybe even a 2nd and 3rd like Dillon.
Similarly, Helm and Glendening would be quality contributors on a playoff team like Givani, but would add more at this point in career and each could be leaving for 3rds at deadline. Type of players maybe can’t fully appreciate until they play for you I guess tho.

Would love to have Allen to team with Bernier. But no need to retain salary for us lol. In the same sense of cap relief. Like what if Bozak/Steen/both waive clause and then we buy them out for STL. So if a trade begins on a salary dump for Dunn, is that appealing to STL. And what veterans/picks/prospects then would need to be added.
Aug. 14, 2020 at 1:40 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: A_K
The offer sheet isn't very threatening imo. For one, it is a big assumption to say we'll extend Petro and be in cap hell. They probably could've come to a deal a long time ago - before GMDA filled the cap space with Faulk and scandella - if there was middle ground to find. If Armstrong does extend Petro, it will be bc he is confident that he'll be able to make it work without losing a guy like Dunn to an OS. Plus, offer sheets can only go out in the free agency period. As an RFA without arbitration, I feel like the sides will come to a deal long before then. Dunn doesn't have a ton of leverage so both sides would probably be fine with a 2 yr bridge.


Thank you, that was another very insightful STL answer. Yeah from the outside, it does look like Petro isn’t going to resign. And probably only leaves for Toronto (however they figure that out). So that’s great. And looks like Blues are prepared. In a scenario Petro resigns, can Perunovich take over for Dunn on the cheap? And I get Dunn lacks leverage with no arbitration, but doesn’t that mean he would instead wait to sign anything, hoping to get an offer sheet to leverage against STL?
Aug. 14, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: A_K
The offer sheet isn't very threatening imo. For one, it is a big assumption to say we'll extend Petro and be in cap hell. They probably could've come to a deal a long time ago - before GMDA filled the cap space with Faulk and scandella - if there was middle ground to find. If Armstrong does extend Petro, it will be bc he is confident that he'll be able to make it work without losing a guy like Dunn to an OS. Plus, offer sheets can only go out in the free agency period. As an RFA without arbitration, I feel like the sides will come to a deal long before then. Dunn doesn't have a ton of leverage so both sides would probably be fine with a 2 yr bridge.


I would agree with you that a two-year bridge deal is likely. The Faulk contract is simply mind boggling??? Outside of Armstrong having too many beers the night he offered Faulk that contract, the only thing I can think of that may explain why he did that was an effort to "show" Petro that he was boss or possibly to pressure Petro into signing a while ago. Whether Army was drunk, an asshole, or hedging his bet, I don't think it played out the way he initially thought it would.
Aug. 14, 2020 at 5:19 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
Interesting. Funny thing is we passed on Quinn taking Zadina the pick earlier.
Yah thanks for your insight. That was helpful. Wasn’t trying to low ball, just trying to find out Dunn’s trade value if any two teams can sidestep him signing an offer sheet. Bc for us we can’t include a 2021 1st, but I knew it needed to be better than just the 4.2 mil compensation 2nd rd pick offer. Our organization still believes in Cholowski, but if he doesn’t step up this year then he will begin getting passed by Jared McIsaac and Albert Johansson, two strong LD prospects for us. Wondering how Cholowski would have developed surrounded by STL strong D corps earlier. Skilled top six forward prospects, scoring/depth scoring are our biggest weaknesses, so it would be very hard to part with either Zadina or Veleno and since they’re also the closest to NHL. It just puts us further away. We’d be better off going after Krug to run the PP. Our RD prospects, Seider, Gustav Lindstrom and Antti Tuomisto, all had strong years. Givani Smith is a beast, we like him, he’s ready for the show and he’d be a great fit on the Blues. But many prospects close enough to NHL to offer Blues.

I think some of our veterans could fit well on the Blues. LD Patrik Nemeth. He’s a big body, hard to play against, makes simple plays/exits. A 5-6th D on good team was getting top pair minutes bc of our injuries and had a good season. Which was how we got him from the Avs, we offered a bigger opportunity. And he delivered. Will fetch us a 2 at the deadline like Scandella, maybe even a 2nd and 3rd like Dillon.
Similarly, Helm and Glendening would be quality contributors on a playoff team like Givani, but would add more at this point in career and each could be leaving for 3rds at deadline. Type of players maybe can’t fully appreciate until they play for you I guess tho.

Would love to have Allen to team with Bernier. But no need to retain salary for us lol. In the same sense of cap relief. Like what if Bozak/Steen/both waive clause and then we buy them out for STL. So if a trade begins on a salary dump for Dunn, is that appealing to STL. And what veterans/picks/prospects then would need to be added.


I know many people believe Bozak is a "cap dump," but I disagree. The guy is a solid player. He's a glue-guy that does everything like a professional should. He's still good for 30-50 points depending on his linemates. For teh Blues, he simply needs to play strong D up the middle and win faceoffs. Anything else he contributes is gold. I honestly think a team like Edmonton should be salivating to acquire him. They desperately need a solid third center, and Bozak is exactly that. Add in the fact that he still can contribute offensively - which the Oilers desperately need - I would argue a second round pick straight up for Bozak benefits both clubs. Bozak does have a 10 team NTC, so that would obviously have to be navigated.
Aug. 14, 2020 at 5:28 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: SweetRevenge19
Would love to have Allen to team with Bernier. But no need to retain salary for us lol. In the same sense of cap relief. Like what if Bozak/Steen/both waive clause and then we buy them out for STL. So if a trade begins on a salary dump for Dunn, is that appealing to STL. And what veterans/picks/prospects then would need to be added.


I can't see the Blues management doing something like that to Steen. He's basically a legacy player for this team, especially since he contributed to winning the very first St. Louis Stanley Cup. I doubt they use him as "buyout bait." Now, they may ask him to retire early with an under the table guarantee that he'll make his salary next year as a "scout" or some other front-office job. Who knows? Bozak I think could easily be moved and won't require a buyout. I could see the Note being open to trading Allen to Detroit for the Detroit 3rd or one of the Oiler/Capitals late 2nd round pick. If I was Armstrong, I'd ask for G. Smith and perhaps a 3rd or 4th if it could bring another LWer with potential.
Aug. 14, 2020 at 5:33 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: rja40
I know many people believe Bozak is a "cap dump," but I disagree. The guy is a solid player. He's a glue-guy that does everything like a professional should. He's still good for 30-50 points depending on his linemates. For teh Blues, he simply needs to play strong D up the middle and win faceoffs. Anything else he contributes is gold. I honestly think a team like Edmonton should be salivating to acquire him. They desperately need a solid third center, and Bozak is exactly that. Add in the fact that he still can contribute offensively - which the Oilers desperately need - I would argue a second round pick straight up for Bozak benefits both clubs. Bozak does have a 10 team NTC, so that would obviously have to be navigated.


I agree Edmonton would be a good fit.
And nobody is saying Bozak isn’t still quality, just that STL needs to “dump cap” somehow. Which it’s seems like you’re also aware of.
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