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The prospect pool is weak

Created by: Gordon_Bombay
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 28, 2020
Published: Aug. 28, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
The Leafs prospect pool is quite poor in my opinion. If Sandin, Liljegren and Robertson make the jump to the NHL, I only see Hallander as a legit NHL prospect. Maybe Kokkonen. But I would not mind the Leafs adding some prospects
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$700,000
1$700,000
1$700,000
4$2,500,000
1$1,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$700,000
1$3,000,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. 2020 1st round pick (TBL)
  2. 2020 2nd round pick (SJS)
SJS
  1. 2020 1st round pick (PIT)
2.
TOR
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (NSH)
Additional Details:
Part of a bigger thing in Nashville. Shaking up their forward group
3.
TOR
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (VAN)
Additional Details:
Dermott is still a player who can become a top 4 D, and he is only 23, so kind of still fits in the rebuild of the Kings
LAK
  1. Bracco, Jeremy [RFA Rights]
  2. Dermott, Travis [RFA Rights]
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,009,783$0$400,000$490,217
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
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UFA - 1
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$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
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$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 4
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
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$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
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$821,667$821,667
LW, RW
RFA - 4
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 3
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$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
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$1,250,000$1,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
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$700,000$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000
LD
UFA - 1
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$1,650,000$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
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$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 2
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$700,000$700,000
C
UFA - 1
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 2
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$700,000$700,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1

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Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:09 a.m.
#1
mokumboi
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San Jose might go for that, I don't know. You're not getting 2nd's for Johnsson (at least until he shows his knee is all good) or Dermott. Bracco has zero value.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:18 a.m.
#2
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SDA and Abruzzese are good too
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:25 a.m.
#3
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I agree, the prospect pool is really about 4 guys, and if they don't make it theres a really long delay in more help coming. This is especially true on defense with only Reilly, Dermott being young (and Holl at 28, with just 1 season) and a lot of HOPE and expectations on sandin and liljegren. (Philly has 5 dmen under 27 with Zamula, York, Wylie, and others by comparison).

With the cap issues, I cant see a monied return for Johnsson/Kerfoot. The forwards are young, but with the cap issues something has to break just right to address defense.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:26 a.m.
#4
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Curious to hear your opinion as I see it being one of the more valuable ones in the Leafs fandom on here, who would be your top 3-5 prospects for the leafs without Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson and Hallander?
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:27 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: mokumboi
San Jose might go for that, I don't know. You're not getting 2nd's for Johnsson (at least until he shows his knee is all good) or Dermott. Bracco has zero value.


Didn't show any reduction in speed in the playins
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:29 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: Hammerwise
I agree, the prospect pool is really about 4 guys, and if they don't make it theres a really long delay in more help coming. This is especially true on defense with only Reilly, Dermott being young (and Holl at 28, with just 1 season) and a lot of HOPE and expectations on sandin and liljegren. (Philly has 5 dmen under 27 with Zamula, York, Wylie, and others by comparison).

With the cap issues, I cant see a monied return for Johnsson/Kerfoot. The forwards are young, but with the cap issues something has to break just right to address defense.


The prospect pool of guys who look like they could be special is thin but I trust the development staff to make NHL quality players out of some other guys as well. Perhaps not high end players but the leafs seem to be good at turning long shots into Johnsson and Engval so I am not concerned.
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Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:33 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
The prospect pool of guys who look like they could be special is thin but I trust the development staff to make NHL quality players out of some other guys as well. Perhaps not high end players but the leafs seem to be good at turning long shots into Johnsson and Engval so I am not concerned.


I agree with you, the development will result in a filler player here and there (and with the youth at forward, that's not a problem there), but I think you'll find in comparison to every team in the league, its really weak, and the desperate need for cheap entry level contract dmen to deliver on their projections is a risky proposition.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:36 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Hammerwise
I agree with you, the development will result in a filler player here and there (and with the youth at forward, that's not a problem there), but I think you'll find in comparison to every team in the league, its really weak, and the desperate need for cheap entry level contract dmen to deliver on their projections is a risky proposition.


Development can make marginal players NHLers and decent players good players. I bet there will be surprises in the later rounds all the time from this team. Even Brazeau could amount to something and he was a AHL signing.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:51 a.m.
#9
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If you're looking for good prospects, why let go of the 15th overall pick?

I think the Leafs need to keep it, and make a sound choice what that pick.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:53 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: mokumboi
You're not getting 2nd's for Johnsson (at least until he shows his knee is all good) or Dermott. Bracco has zero value.


People were saying the same thing when I claimed that Kapanen should be traded for a mid first round pick!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1845616

It seems that Leafs players are not so worthless after all.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 7:57 a.m.
#11
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Having a weak prospect pool is perfectly fine so long as it comes about in the right way. The fact that their top drafted picks from the last 3 drafts are all potentially graduating next year is nothing but good. The end goal every time you draft a prospect is that they become an NHL'er.

Anytime a teams 3 best prospects graduate, of course the pool is going to take a hit. The high end is gone. But there are still a good number of guys who can potentially make an impact down the road (Korshkov, Hallander, Kokkonen, Abruzzese, Abramov, Brooks - though he is a bit older - , goalies are always tough but they have Woll and Scott developing right now) plus they have 11 picks, including #15, in this coming draft... I'm not too concerned about it tbh.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:08 a.m.
#12
mokumboi
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Quoting: leaflet
People were saying the same thing when I claimed that Kapanen should be traded for a mid first round pick!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1845616

It seems that Leafs players are not so worthless after all.



This constant moaning about how people think Leafs players are worthless is laughable considering so many the trades that get put up here. It's pure projection.

More to the point, Kapanen is not straight off major knee surgery, which I already noted as the main reason you can;t get a 2nd for Johnsson right now. But if pressed, yeah I think the Pens may have overpaid by also sending them Hallander.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:09 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Salzy
Curious to hear your opinion as I see it being one of the more valuable ones in the Leafs fandom on here, who would be your top 3-5 prospects for the leafs without Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson and Hallander?


Iny my opinon:
Korshkov (but not much more of a 4th liner, but kind of NHL ready)
Kokkonen (not a ton of upside, but he can become a good bottom pairing LHD)
Woll (could become a starter, but it is always hard to tell with goalies, no sure thing at all)
Abramov (potential mid 6 forward, but not a sure thing at all)
Abruzzese (had a very good rookie season at Harvard. Best case, he could become kind of what Kerfoot is, but also here, not a sure thing)
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Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:14 a.m.
#14
mokumboi
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Didn't show any reduction in speed in the playins



Uhh, he played 10 minutes of one game. And speed isn't the only consideration here.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:17 a.m.
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Quoting: leaflet
If you're looking for good prospects, why let go of the 15th overall pick?

I think the Leafs need to keep it, and make a sound choice what that pick.


It really depends on your team needs.

For the Leafs, they have the high end talent already that will be there for years, what they need is more a support cast. I quite like the support cast available at the end of the 1st round.

For San Jose, it is a bit different, they could use someone with 1-2 Line upside, that they can get at 15, or by drafting Askarov.

The only young player with upside in San Jose is Timo Meier
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:23 a.m.
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Having a weak prospect pool is perfectly fine so long as it comes about in the right way. The fact that their top drafted picks from the last 3 drafts are all potentially graduating next year is nothing but good. The end goal every time you draft a prospect is that they become an NHL'er.

Anytime a teams 3 best prospects graduate, of course the pool is going to take a hit. The high end is gone. But there are still a good number of guys who can potentially make an impact down the road (Korshkov, Hallander, Kokkonen, Abruzzese, Abramov, Brooks - though he is a bit older - , goalies are always tough but they have Woll and Scott developing right now) plus they have 11 picks, including #15, in this coming draft... I'm not too concerned about it tbh.


I think with the cap situation the Leafs need players that can push players out. They could, but I would not bet on that.

Robertson made Kapanen movable. That is a reality.

I think a sustainable prospect pool will help the Leafs much more. With the core of this team, the Leafs can compete for a cup the next 10 years (not really as favourites. But they can only do so if they play their cards right, and this is by drafting and developing prospects than can constanlty push out established players.

One cannot make a bet on winning a Stanley Cup in 2 years.

I don't know if you follow baseball a bit, but do you remeber the Jays when AA was in charge? He sold the farm for 2 pushes. Twice they were not good enough and it is taking them years to recover from those pushes.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:26 a.m.
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Quoting: Salzy
Curious to hear your opinion as I see it being one of the more valuable ones in the Leafs fandom on here, who would be your top 3-5 prospects for the leafs without Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson and Hallander?


I know you didn't ask me, but I thought that was an intriguing question. Tough to answer this right before a draft as their first two picks (assuming they keep #15) would probably overtake two of my three choices, but my #5-7 prospects at the moment are probably (in no particular order) Abramov - Led his QMJHL team in scoring this past year (his D+1) by 35 points and a weakness in his draft year was his shooting which he improved to also lead his team in goals with 35. Abruzzese - drafted last year as an overager, transitioned seamlessly from the USHL to University Hockey, led his team in scoring and was named to the all-rookie team. I'm going to go with Korshkov for the last slot - there are a lot more interesting prospects with the Leafs with higher upside, but this guy is capable of playing a bottom six role, big body that can use it to his advantage and every now and again can show a flash of skill.

HM: Kokkonen - next year will be important for him, imo. LD who had a down D+1 year, but he is playing against men in Finland and holding his own.
SDA - So much raw talent and playmaking smarts, but he's a soft player who doesn't quite have the evasiveness necessary for his size and style at the next level, imo and god he needs to work on his shot in terms of both the actual shot itself (i.e power, release, etc) and the utilization of it.
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Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:27 a.m.
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Edited Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:43 a.m.
Ignore this comment, accidentally quoted my previous comment rather than edit it.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:42 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
I think with the cap situation the Leafs need players that can push players out. They could, but I would not bet on that.

Robertson made Kapanen movable. That is a reality.

I think a sustainable prospect pool will help the Leafs much more. With the core of this team, the Leafs can compete for a cup the next 10 years (not really as favourites. But they can only do so if they play their cards right, and this is by drafting and developing prospects than can constanlty push out established players.

One cannot make a bet on winning a Stanley Cup in 2 years.

I don't know if you follow baseball a bit, but do you remeber the Jays when AA was in charge? He sold the farm for 2 pushes. Twice they were not good enough and it is taking them years to recover from those pushes.


And that's what they are doing. As I said, the Leafs three top picks in the last three years are all potentially graduating. Robertson made (and will probably continue to do so) guys expendable - though I don't think that was the case with Kapanen; he was movable anyways. Sandin is on his way up the left side rankings, Dermott has been often suggested in trade already with his emergence and he's only going to get better from here. Liljegren is on his way up.

Your third line describes the Leafs current situation; they've locked their core up and will try to cycle guys in and out of the low-end of the lineup through drafting and developing, as well as overseas signings (Mikheyev, Lehtonen, Barabonov). They have 3 prospects competing for roster spots in addition to the #15OA pick and 10 others this upcoming draft as well as other guys who are currently in development.

If they do move other players like Johnsson or Dermott, I would imagine that the deals would look somewhat like yours - they try to clear cap and recoup picks/futures, just as they did with Kapanen, to develop those pieces over time so they can hopefully factor into the lineup when it's time for the next wave of guys to move out.

It just seems like you are advocating for something that they are already doing.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:46 a.m.
#20
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Mike Koster
Aug. 28, 2020 at 8:52 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
And that's what they are doing. As I said, the Leafs three top picks in the last three years are all potentially graduating. Robertson made (and will probably continue to do so) guys expendable - though I don't think that was the case with Kapanen; he was movable anyways. Sandin is on his way up the left side rankings, Dermott has been often suggested in trade already with his emergence and he's only going to get better from here. Liljegren is on his way up.

Your third line describes the Leafs current situation; they've locked their core up and will try to cycle guys in and out of the low-end of the lineup through drafting and developing, as well as overseas signings (Mikheyev, Lehtonen, Barabonov). They have 3 prospects competing for roster spots in addition to the #15OA pick and 10 others this upcoming draft as well as other guys who are currently in development.

If they do move other players like Johnsson or Dermott, I would imagine that the deals would look somewhat like yours - they try to clear cap and recoup picks/futures, just as they did with Kapanen, to develop those pieces over time so they can hopefully factor into the lineup when it's time for the next wave of guys to move out.

It just seems like you are advocating for something that they are already doing.


I am not saying the Leafs are not doing that, I just think they should keep doing that.

What I like most about the Leafs management in recent years is that they don't rush players in the NHL like other teams tend to do.

So realisticly, those are NHL arivals in my opinion (if they should make it to the NHL)

2020 Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson
2021 Hallander (or 2022)
2022
2023 Abramov, Kokonen
2024 Abruzzese, Woll, Scott

What you invest now will maybe pay dividends in 2-4 years, not right now, which is why I hope they keep invest in the future
Aug. 28, 2020 at 9:13 a.m.
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Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
I am not saying the Leafs are not doing that, I just think they should keep doing that.

What I like most about the Leafs management in recent years is that they don't rush players in the NHL like other teams tend to do.

So realisticly, those are NHL arivals in my opinion (if they should make it to the NHL)

2020 Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson
2021 Hallander (or 2022)
2022
2023 Abramov, Kokonen
2024 Abruzzese, Woll, Scott

What you invest now will maybe pay dividends in 2-4 years, not right now, which is why I hope they keep invest in the future


And I'm sure they will. If they are able to graduate an average of nearly two drafted guys per year like you have listed above, that's pretty good. And, while of course not all of those guys will become NHL players, there is a draft and opportunity for signings every year. They're on a pretty solid track regarding this type of system.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 9:20 a.m.
#23
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Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
I am not saying the Leafs are not doing that, I just think they should keep doing that.

What I like most about the Leafs management in recent years is that they don't rush players in the NHL like other teams tend to do.

So realisticly, those are NHL arivals in my opinion (if they should make it to the NHL)

2020 Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson
2021 Hallander (or 2022)
2022
2023 Abramov, Kokonen
2024 Abruzzese, Woll, Scott

What you invest now will maybe pay dividends in 2-4 years, not right now, which is why I hope they keep invest in the future


Abruzzese is already 21, he got passed over in the draft twice, so if he's got an actual NHL future it begins in 2021 or 2020 IMO. He's thinking of leaving school this year to play in Europe if US college doesn't get going.

Also, Liljegren would be 2020 or 2021.

Other than that list looks good.
Aug. 28, 2020 at 9:26 a.m.
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lmao do you even know any of the leafs prospects?
Aug. 28, 2020 at 10:37 a.m.
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Quoting: keep_ups12
lmao do you even know any of the leafs prospects?


Why are you asking?

Where do you disagree?
 
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