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(STL/MTL) - Allen and 2022 7th RD pick for 2020 3rd RD pick and 2020 7th RD pick

Who won the trade?
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 1:30 p.m.
#76
Lets Go Blues
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Quoting: exo2769
The single biggest take away i get from this is....and I can't make this more clear... THIS IS THE 2020 GOALIE MARKET. A .927 SV% 2.15 GAA got a 3rd round pick. ALL this 1st rounder nonsense is crazy. Doesn't mean a GM can't get fleeced....JR.... But MTL also has the cap space too. Just think about all the teams that don't have the cap space.


My takeaway would be that you can't use stats from a single season to judge player value. Allen had a great season. He has some good overall numbers, but he is a 1B - he loses his starting job no matter how many times it is given to him. For a 1B at 4.35m, even if he is great in that role, MTL paid pretty accurate value.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 1:44 p.m.
#77
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This is an easy win for St. Louis, as getting an actual return for a weak goalie making too much money, an getting paid almost his full AAV in cash under a flat cap when teams will be cutting cost just seems like a very shrewd move.

Not sure how Bergevin doesn't get an asset for taking on Allen to be honest. In the end, Montreal probably didn't need the cap space, and it's a one year deal, but I have no idea how it costs a third to overpay a goalie with a below average career save percentage. It's a clear loss, but in the end, it's like trading a 4th rounder for a 5th, it's a loss, but probably doesn't matter.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 1:52 p.m.
#78
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Quoting: HabsForEver
They got a 3rd round pick for a goalie that put up a .927 this year. Montreal gave up the pick they got for signing Kovalchuk and trading him a month later. It's a clear W for MTL


Basing the value of this deal on a Allen's save percentage in a 24 game season is likely a mistake. He has a career 0.913 save percentage, which is below average, but solid for a back up. $4.35M in AAV and $4M owed in cash is an overpay for a back up, so the fact that St. Louis didn't retain, and didn't have to pay for someone to take that year given the current economic climate is a great move for them.

Allen posted a 0.905 save percentage over a 2 year, 100+ game run before that, and with the glut of goalies available this summer, I don't think it would have been too hard to get someone to back up price. If Montreal was desperate they could probably have just offered $4.5M to Khudobin, and would probably relish the chance to make that kind of money. He's likely the better goalie, but even if he wasn't it's better to just spend cap space then to spend cap space and a pick.

It likely makes no real difference in the long run, but this certainly isn't a trade Bergevin should be bragging about.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 1:53 p.m.
#79
exo2769
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Edited Sep. 2, 2020 at 2:01 p.m.
Quoting: A_K
My takeaway would be that you can't use stats from a single season to judge player value. Allen had a great season. He has some good overall numbers, but he is a 1B - he loses his starting job no matter how many times it is given to him. For a 1B at 4.35m, even if he is great in that role, MTL paid pretty accurate value.


I'm not saying STL or MTL won this thing massively either way. I'm just saying that if we're agreeing this is a decent trade...most people on here are...then no one should start expecting 1st rounders for players either. The difference between a 1st and a 3rd is huge. Every goalie has their own story. Matt Murray is different than Holtby who's different than Georgreiv and Lehner...etc... . UFA...RFA...Tandem goalie...coming of a terrible year...age all factors. Jake Allen coming off a really good year is a strong starting position for a trade. It's much harder to say...yeah he sucked last year, but forget that for a moment....it'll be different for you! And oh...by the way...you're going to have to pay more in salary/cap during this flat cap environment.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 1:59 p.m.
#80
AwesomeMatthews
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K I guess their going all in on Binnington even after his bad play in the playoffs.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 2:02 p.m.
#81
Lets Go Blues
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm not saying STL or MTL won this thing massively either way. I'm just saying that if we're agreeing this is a decent trade...most people on here are...then no one should start expecting 1st rounders for players either. The difference between a 1st and a 3rd is huge. Every goalie has their own story. Matt Murray is different than Holtby who's different than Georgreiv and Lehner...etc... . UFA...RFA...Tandem goalie...coming of a terrible year...age all factors. Jake Allen coming off a really good year is a strong starting position for a trade. It's much harder to say...yeah he sucked last year, but forget that for a moment....it'll be different for you!


I see your point and i agree. But I think if a team is looking for an affordable starter - say Freddie Andersen - and the cost is a late 1st, it would be good value IMO, despite his down season. If you think the guy can start 60 games and give you a shot at winning most of them, he's gonna have a different value than a guy like Allen who (similar cap hit) may be in better form currently but isn't gonna be a horse. Def correct that every goalie has their own story/value.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 2:48 p.m.
#82
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If Binnington regresses next season, do they go on the free agent market and run Husso/FA?
Sep. 2, 2020 at 3:16 p.m.
#83
Crazy
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win-win trade
Sep. 2, 2020 at 3:17 p.m.
#84
Evans truther
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
IMO most likely we trade Lindgren, and re-sign McNiven to a 1 year deal to be the 5th goalie. That way McNiven is an RFA next offseason, so he fits the exposure requirements.

So this season our goalies are:
1. Price
2. Allen
3. Primeau
4. Demchenko
5. McNiven

And next year they are:
1. Price
2. Primeau
3. Demchenko
4. Nissen-Dichow

You forgot the most important one!
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 3:21 p.m.
#85
Former Hockey Fan
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Quoting: ColonelX
You forgot the most important one!


The Gnome!

I forgot he came over to North America. If he was over in Sweden I would’ve expected him to stay a year or two more, but since he’s playing in the OHL this year I could definitely see him playing in Laval in 21-22.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 3:51 p.m.
#86
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Quoting: HabsForEver
MASSIVE W!!

We used what we got from Kovalchuk to get Allen. Pretty much getting Allen for free. Thank you again St.Louis


I don't know if it's a "MASSIVE W!!" ...

Montreal paid a 3rd round pick for a backup goalie making $4,350,000 next year.

They easily could have signed someone equivalent for less, without giving up a 3rd in a deep draft.

Lehner
Holtby
Markstrom
Crawford
Khudobin
Anderson
Howard
Greiss
Talbot
Miller
Smith
Elliott
Dell

Are all UFA's and capable backups.

And most of them aren't getting $4,350,000 in a Covid-19 marketplace.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 3:59 p.m.
#87
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Montreal probably flips Allen half retained at the deadline for a 2nd round pick.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 4:08 p.m.
#88
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Not too worried about losing a 3rd Rd pick considering Habs still have 5 picks in the first 3 rds this year. Also lot of Blues fans on here were saying Allen would easily fetch a 2nd +.

Overall good pickup, bit expensive in terms of cap, would of liked for them to try and spend it more upfront. But considering next year’s schedule will be incredible condensed, a good backup is almost a necessity at this point, and Allen fits the bill!
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 4:12 p.m.
#89
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Quoting: Blazingbat11
Not too worried about losing a 3rd Rd pick considering Habs still have 5 picks in the first 3 rds this year. Also lot of Blues fans on here were saying Allen would easily fetch a 2nd +.

Overall good pickup, bit expensive in terms of cap, would of liked for them to try and spend it more upfront. But considering next year’s schedule will be incredible condensed, a good backup is almost a necessity at this point, and Allen fits the bill!


Plus the Habs might flip him at the deadline if they're out of it.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 4:20 p.m.
#90
GM67
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Very smart move way back by Montreal for getting a stock pile of picks for basically nothing to be able to use to make their team stronger little by little. I like this move because Montreal's Goaltending is stacked. With more moves on the Defensive side of the puck they could really make this a tough team to play against.

As for St. Louis this was a good move to free up that cap space to go after Alex Pietrangelo and sign him and get him out of the free agency signing talks by the rest of the league. He should be 8 million plus for 7-8 years and of course overpaying on the trail end of his career which is common.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 5:12 p.m.
#91
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Quoting: drewjenkins
I don't know if it's a "MASSIVE W!!" ...

Montreal paid a 3rd round pick for a backup goalie making $4,350,000 next year.

They easily could have signed someone equivalent for less, without giving up a 3rd in a deep draft.

Lehner
Holtby
Markstrom
Crawford
Khudobin
Anderson
Howard
Greiss
Talbot
Miller
Smith
Elliott
Dell

Are all UFA's and capable backups.

And most of them aren't getting $4,350,000 in a Covid-19 marketplace.


How many of these goalies are willing to be backups and sign 1 year deals? Doubt many if at all.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 5:34 p.m.
#92
Former Hockey Fan
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Quoting: drewjenkins
I don't know if it's a "MASSIVE W!!" ...

Montreal paid a 3rd round pick for a backup goalie making $4,350,000 next year.

They easily could have signed someone equivalent for less, without giving up a 3rd in a deep draft.

Lehner
Holtby
Markstrom
Crawford
Khudobin
Anderson
Howard
Greiss
Talbot
Miller
Smith
Elliott
Dell

Are all UFA's and capable backups.

And most of them aren't getting $4,350,000 in a Covid-19 marketplace.


Goalies that are better than Allen:
Lehner
Holtby
Markstrom
Khudobin

Greiss and Talbot are around as good as him.

So Lehner, Holtby, & Markstrom will all be number ones. Khudobin will get a pretty decent contract (definitely longer than 1 year) where he’s the 1A or 1B. As for Greiss and Talbot, I’m not sure their cap hit will be much lower than Allen’s and they’ll both get multi-year contracts.

So Allen was clearly the best choice for the habs out of goalies available now.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 6:21 p.m.
#93
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Pretty fair trade for both teams IMO. The clear winner in this is Jake Allen. He gets an opportunity to showcase his talents with a different club, this time in the East, before he becomes a free agent after next year.

I gotta give it to Doug Armstrong for pulling the trigger on this trade so early. Not only does he free up cap space, but he does so before goalie musical chairs officially starts. While you can argue that the return isn't very much for Allen, the Blues could have received much less once goalies started to sign. Blues were able to get decent compensation in return and have their pick of where to send him before alot of doors closed on them and again, seems to me that they were able to send Allen to a competitive team in the process. It really helps out both clubs.

I'm not too crazy about Montreal tying up so much cap space in two goalies but they atleast have options by acquiring Allen. He's a proven netminder that actually gives Price a solid backup incase he goes down to injury or needs a few extra games off for rest. Who knows what Montreal has in their plans, they could possibly listen to trade offers for either goalie at the deadline now if they choose to do so.

I like this for both teams and especially for the Snake!
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 7:31 p.m.
#94
Evans truther
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Agree with the comment on top of mine, Allen's the real winner there.
Which team wins the trade, as of right now (09/02/2020) it's a win-win at every level.
Cap space: Blues needs it for Pete and Dunn whereas Montreal's flooding in it and even after this trade they still holds about 13.3M$ to sign 4 players, Domi and 3 bottom six forward.
Goalie situation: Clearly shows the faith STL has in Bennington even after those ''meh'' playoffs and Montreal's locks up their forever search of a backup goalie with a SOLID one.
Picks: Montreal still has 12 picks, *12*, and with tons of interesting players in their pipeline the 50 contract limit will come up at some point so shedding some picks' smart. Latest THW prospect pool ranking has STL standing at 28th and having only five picks this year would've not changed much so acquiring two extra picks' an intelligent move by DouggyA.
Now where I think the deal can become lopsided is if St-Louis happens to pull a Jets and are unable to keep Pietrangelo, gets into next season with question marks in net and over 4.5M$ of available cap space. Highly improbable yet could become reality.

Now the ever ending argument about Montreal tying up 15M$ to their goaltender tandem ... For two straight years Montreal has gone through the season with lots of free cap space and a below average backup, has it made us a better team or a winning team? So why doing the opposite's seen as a knock? Yes Carey has a contract but when fresh -and he showed it in the playoffs- he's the best in the world, end of the argument. Montreal ended up paying a discounted price on Allen for taking the extra cap space end of the story.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 7:47 p.m.
#95
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I don't get this move for MTL.
The only way this makes sense for them is to attempt to flip Allen.
4.5 million for a backup goalie is a lot of scratch to commit to your cap. Say what you will but it limits what you can do in other areas.
It's not even a cap move the base is still 4 million.

Mean while STL dumps cap, gets a pick. I think they win this.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 7:53 p.m.
#96
Let's go Pens!
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What's the point getting a +4M backup goalie instead of boost a much needed offense??? They're paying almost 15M for 2 goalies and they already have one of the top goalies of the league. Save space to get a top scorer like Mike Hoffman or Taylor Hall and still re-sign Domi and Mete. Nonsense for Montreal, in my opinion.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 8:42 p.m.
#97
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I highly doubt Jake Allen is a member of MTL past the middle of next season. MB is making a compound trade here, imo. Allen will be flipped. $14M+ on goaltending is suicidal with a flat cap. Plus, Prime is a top prospect at the position!!!

STL wins regardless. They're gonna be active in the UFA market. I think Taylor Hall is a great fit. If he's willing to compromise on AAV, of course.
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Sep. 2, 2020 at 8:48 p.m.
#98
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Quoting: AwesomeMatthews
K I guess their going all in on Binnington even after his bad play in the playoffs.


If they lose Pietrangelo to free agency Binnington's stats will probably take a hit, too.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 8:52 p.m.
#99
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Quoting: Willian_Cardoso
What's the point getting a +4M backup goalie instead of boost a much needed offense??? They're paying almost 15M for 2 goalies and they already have one of the top goalies of the league. Save space to get a top scorer like Mike Hoffman or Taylor Hall and still re-sign Domi and Mete. Nonsense for Montreal, in my opinion.


That's why I believe Bergevin has a plan. No way they use almost 20% of their cap on goaltending. Allen will be flipped after the UFA's are signed. Whoever misses out on the top available Goalies might look to acquire Allen. At least, that's my guess.
Sep. 2, 2020 at 9:15 p.m.
#100
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: Brian2016
That's why I believe Bergevin has a plan. No way they use almost 20% of their cap on goaltending. Allen will be flipped after the UFA's are signed. Whoever misses out on the top available Goalies might look to acquire Allen. At least, that's my guess.


I think you are overtinking it, but hey, it is not so farfetched.

I just think he flips him to a contender for another 3rd at TDL if Habs are out off the race.
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