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What is fair value for taking on salary dumps w the flat cap

Created by: ISeeBlueHeLooks
Team: 2020-21 Detroit Red Wings
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 7, 2020
Published: Sep. 7, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
There seems to be quite a divide here when it comes to the value of taking on the bad contracts from contending teams. I'm interested in hearing from fans of the teams dumping contracts for cap space and other Wings fans as well. What they consider fair and realistic sweeteners for taking these contracts on. I'll list a few that come to mind and maybe some folks can fill in the blanks with what they consider fair compensation.
Trades
1.
2.
3.
DET
  1. Steen, Alexander
Additional Details:
With the understanding that he will be bought out, making him a free agent.
STL
4.
DET
  1. Turris, Kyle
Additional Details:
Understanding that Turris has value as a player, but has a burdensome contract given $$ and term. I believe buying him out would cost Nashville $2 million a year for the next eight years. Getting that contract off their books, even retaining $1 million - $2 million over half that time would seem to have quite a bit of allure.
NSH
5.
6.
DET
  1. Russell, Kris
Additional Details:
With the understanding that he will be bought out, making him a free agent.
EDM
7.
8.
Buyouts
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$75,088,289$0$2,360,000$6,411,711
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$2,950,000$2,950,000
LW
UFA - 2
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$6,100,000$6,100,000
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Nashville Predators
$1,650,000$1,650,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,850,000$3,850,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$874,125$874,125
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,800,000$1,800,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$714,166$714,166 (Performance Bonus$157,500$158K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$714,166$714,166 (Performance Bonus$157,500$158K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,000,000$3,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,167$894,167
RD
RFA - 4
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,166$894,166
LD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$775,833$775,833 (Performance Bonus$132,500$132K)
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$875,000$875,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$6,083,333$6,083,333
C
UFA - 1

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Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:05 p.m.
#1
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Edited Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:13 p.m.
Higher premium than last year..

Cap is flat this year, but will also likely be flat for 2021-22 as well. So if Marleau, Backes took a 1st to move...I think we should anticipate some more of those.

Alzner and Russell won’t take that much because there is some flexibility there.
Steen probably as a say in where he goes, if he goes...so may put STL in tough spot.
Eriksson probably costs 1st and more...if team eats whole thing. Ladd will probably cost prospect.
Turris, could see wide range.
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Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:08 p.m.
#2
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Won’t get anything from oilers for Russell.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:08 p.m.
#3
Oilers GM
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Prolly a 3rd for Russell

He's one of those guys who are useful, but overpaid by about 3M. Has 1 year left and is only owed 1.5M real dollars, so probably a 3rd to get rid of his contract
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Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:15 p.m.
#4
LOCKEMUP
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baertchi probably doesnt cost much, one year on a meh cap hit isint super crazy. Theyd have to pony up some actual value however to dump guys like beagle and roussell though
Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:16 p.m.
#5
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Did you even look into what a buyout on russell would look like? He would definitely be better to keep.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 2:21 p.m.
#6
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Eriksson is a tough one. If his contract was 3mil he'd never miss a game, very skilled on the PK. He's useful, but not justifiable at 6mil

Canucks already gave up a 1st so losing another would be devastating for the future, even if it does get rid of Loui. imo, depending on the receiving team, I'd say Demko could get rid of his contract, but I've also seen other ACGM's that take his full contract for Virtanen and a 2nd.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:06 p.m.
#7
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I think you need to access each trade differently. What I mean is if you get a useful player (Bozak, Stepan, Turris) you have to determine their useful worth then multiply that by the amount of years (and account for regression if 30+ and multiple years) and difference between that and their contract is the dead weight. Just because a team will use the player doesn’t mean they want to pay the full cap hit similarly how people view plays with value contracts (MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Couts). The further out the futures are or the more restrictions (lottery protected) then the less valued
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Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:13 p.m.
#8
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Eriksson - Before Demko mania started, a lot of Red Wings and Canucks fans agreed that a Eriksson + Demko + 2nd could work however Demko will now be insanely overvalued, at least on Cap Friendly. I'd be willing to drop the 2nd to a 3rd/4th now, but I don't think Canucks fans will be on board with this trade anymore. If Demko isn't involved, I'd want a 1st coming back to Detroit with maybe a mid-round pick or prospect with equivalent value involved.

Baertschi - Probably a mid-round pick to dump.

Steen - The Blues won't move him unless they have to but I think fair value would be a 1st coming to Detroit with a 3rd going back. I've seen some Blues fans say they would be okay with this but only as a last resort to clear cap for Pietrangelo.

Turris - Not too sure about him. I've seen a lot of trades with Nashville using their 1st (11OA) to dump Turris but Predators fans have made it clear that they don't like that trade.

Alzner - I think Montreal will keep him since they're not that desperate for cap but I'd try and get a late 1st or two 2nds (preferably at least one of them from a bad team).

Russell - I'd want a late 2nd or 3rd to take him on but a better team that values him more as a player could take him for less and I don't think the Oilers would be willing to pay that price.

Ladd - I don't even know what I'd want for him. He's an interesting one since he could go on LTIR soon but you can't assume he will. The fact that he has 3 years left makes me want to stay away from him (I'd much prefer taking on guys with 1 or 2 years left). I wouldn't take him for less than two 1st's, or one 1st + a prospect with equivalent value to a 1st. I think the Islanders would be better off waiting a year to trade him.

Boychuk - I'd ask for a 1st + mid-round pick or prospect with equivalent value.
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Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:19 p.m.
#9
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I was reading the beat writer on the athletics for the sens yesterdays and apparently to drop Boychuk & Ladd to easily resign all their RFAs it would cost them Dobson and more, which I doubt NYI would do.

below the final paragraph of the article, which leads to believe the Sens (Melnyk), is not really open to take many cap dumps on his team
"If any teams are going to convince the Senators to take any of their big contracts that trade package will have to be significant and may be too rich for any organisations to consider."
Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:21 p.m.
#10
Boris Bagel
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Habs are not trading Alzner, it's either back to AHL or a buyout
Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:21 p.m.
#11
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Ladd – I don't know what DET would get back, but that Ladd contract is a disaster. At least Loui is somewhat usable, Ladd is a minor league player with Abdelkader. I don't think there is a single Islander prospect I would take for that. Maybe a 1st AND 2nd round pick in 2022 because of how deep that draft will be, but that is the floor.

Boychuck – Serviceable defenseman and good mentor to Seider, I think there might be 1st round pick for him just because of the length left. Depends how desperate Isles are to win-now.

Russell – Unlikely but maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick if we sent Glendening as well, who Holland loves and is a great 4th line player for cheap. Doubt EDM would accept but they should. Luke is great

Ericsson – DiPietro/Demko or a 1st round pick is the minimum. They really need to get rid of that contract because they have to sign Petterson and Hughes in the next 2 years with a flat cap.

Sven – 2nd or 3rd Round pick, unlikely they will send a decent prospect for him.

Steen – 2nd pick or a good prospect, he only has 1 year left and STL could just wait it out. Seems to be a good lockerroom guy.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 3:22 p.m.
#12
Red Wings
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Quoting: alpine4life
I was reading the beat writer on the athletics for the sens yesterdays and apparently to drop Boychuk & Ladd to easily resign all their RFAs it would cost them Dobson and more, which I doubt NYI would do.

below the final paragraph of the article, which leads to believe the Sens (Melnyk), is not really open to take many cap dumps on his team
"If any teams are going to convince the Senators to take any of their big contracts that trade package will have to be significant and may be too rich for any organisations to consider."


Yeah one advantage DET has over OTT (both of which could really weaponize their cap space) is that Illitch's love to spend money on the Wings and trust Stevie. OTT could really do some damage if Melnyk wasn't cheap
Sep. 7, 2020 at 4:35 p.m.
#13
mokumboi
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The Blues aren't paying anyone to buy Steen out, and I can only assume he's not waiving for Detroit. But taking him on is worth a decent 2nd rounder.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 6:19 p.m.
#14
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Blue
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Quoting: Alaskan_RedWing
Ladd – I don't know what DET would get back, but that Ladd contract is a disaster. At least Loui is somewhat usable, Ladd is a minor league player with Abdelkader. I don't think there is a single Islander prospect I would take for that. Maybe a 1st AND 2nd round pick in 2022 because of how deep that draft will be, but that is the floor.

Boychuck – Serviceable defenseman and good mentor to Seider, I think there might be 1st round pick for him just because of the length left. Depends how desperate Isles are to win-now.

Russell – Unlikely but maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick if we sent Glendening as well, who Holland loves and is a great 4th line player for cheap. Doubt EDM would accept but they should. Luke is great

Ericsson – DiPietro/Demko or a 1st round pick is the minimum. They really need to get rid of that contract because they have to sign Petterson and Hughes in the next 2 years with a flat cap.

Sven – 2nd or 3rd Round pick, unlikely they will send a decent prospect for him.

Steen – 2nd pick or a good prospect, he only has 1 year left and STL could just wait it out. Seems to be a good lockerroom guy.


Quoting: mokumboi
The Blues aren't paying anyone to buy Steen out, and I can only assume he's not waiving for Detroit. But taking him on is worth a decent 2nd rounder.



Re: Steen...I'm curious if the Blues are ready to walk away from Pietrangelo. Looks like they have a bit under $6.5 million in cap space, and I'd assume they would want to re-sign Pietrangelo and give Dunn a decent sized bridge deal. They also need a back up goalie. What's the word on how they'll approach their situation?
Sep. 7, 2020 at 6:40 p.m.
#15
mokumboi
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Quoting: ISeeBlueHeLooks
Re: Steen...I'm curious if the Blues are ready to walk away from Pietrangelo. Looks like they have a bit under $6.5 million in cap space, and I'd assume they would want to re-sign Pietrangelo and give Dunn a decent sized bridge deal. They also need a back up goalie. What's the word on how they'll approach their situation?



First, they don't need a back-up goalie. Husso will be promoted. Secondly, they have no intention of walking away from Petro, and with the Allen trade aren't that far off affording raises for Petro and Dunn. I'd guess that Bozak will be the next guy dealt, but it might have to wait a spell as he could have more value to a contending team.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 6:49 p.m.
#16
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Blue
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Quoting: mokumboi
First, they don't need a back-up goalie. Husso will be promoted. Secondly, they have no intention of walking away from Petro, and with the Allen trade aren't that far off affording raises for Petro and Dunn. I'd guess that Bozak will be the next guy dealt, but it might have to wait a spell as he could have more value to a contending team.


I just meant that the $6.5 of cap space didn't include a back up goalie, that's all. Husso added definitely helps so they don't have to sign a vet. That takes them under $6 million in cap space...what do you think the Petro and Dunn contracts will be combined? $11-12 million? I was just curious their plan to clear the $5-7 million to get that done.
Sep. 7, 2020 at 7:07 p.m.
#17
mokumboi
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Quoting: ISeeBlueHeLooks
I just meant that the $6.5 of cap space didn't include a back up goalie, that's all. Husso added definitely helps so they don't have to sign a vet. That takes them under $6 million in cap space...what do you think the Petro and Dunn contracts will be combined? $11-12 million? I was just curious their plan to clear the $5-7 million to get that done.



I would guess that Petro's deal will come in a little under Josi's, maybe something like 8.75M. The whole COVID situation obviously did not help his bargaining position.

Dunn is trickier. Total guesswork at this time. He does not have arbitration rights, so he's also not sitting in the best bargaining chair. If Steen somehow goes (trade, retirement, etc.), Dunn could get a fatter, longer deal. Maybe... 4x4 or thereabouts. If Steen doesn't go, he'll probably have to settle for a shirt bridge, maybe like 2x2.5. Like I said, for now a lot of guessing when it comes to Dunn.
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