Leafs take that deal all day long if only to get cap relief. But why does Carolina take on that cap and why do they need three goalies?

Sharks don't need another LD. We already have our 3 set in stone unless someone gets traded (unlikely given only one we likely wanna move is Vlasic)

You know we could just trade all our players for nothing and get 81.5m in cap space.... I’m sure the Preds wouldn’t mind doing Matthews for Turris if you want...

That trade is bad for the leafs. Also bad for the canes cap but they could always move other players and get even more value back from this deal. You can’t move players around to get another “William” nylander.

They also aren’t moving Pesce for just Andersen either.

The Hurricanes likely make another deal involving Reimer (or less likely, Mrazek) if this deal were to take place. Could see one of Reimer or Mrazek coming to the Leafs in a trade but for this Armchair GM I'm guessing that's not what he'd shoot for.

So that partially resolves the issue of Carolina's cap, by general assumptions. I think Black Ice addressed team needs well, made reasonable offers, and the team looks better than this year's. I like it. He even overpaid on Maroon and Khudobin (imo) and still managed to have cap space left over.

This team can roll four forward lines and I think it's cool.

Dermott can play the right side. The fact that he may sign his QO for 875k and outplay that contract 4x is a good outlook. Not sure you would give up such a high 2nd if you aren’t filling a hole.

Sharks decline, large price for a piece we don't need

I think he explained in his blurb that SJS aren't necessarily the team that'd take Dermott for a mid 30s pick, just one team that maybe might. Could be any team, the idea of moving Dermott to a struggling defensive team for a mid 30s pick is all I care about.



Value is off because no picks are coming from Carolina to Toronto, but I think the additions of Foegele, Pesce, and DeMelo into the line-up help round out the team more, and Robertson being ready partially resolves the loss of Nylander's offense. So should Foegele, to an extent, and a healthy Rielly should help etc etc.

Looks better? Rookie on his offside in the top 6, an overpaid 4th line that should only see 5min a game an underpaid Demelo and a very old guy goalie being asked to take on a decent workload.

This would blow up in your face when nylander puts up 80+ points next season and leafs sputter.

Holl for Larsson written all over this.

It’s a simple remedy. Andersen goes to canes for a reasonable return of futures... after leafs have found a replacement.

Leafs sign Demelo to a reasonable contract and keep 2 of Holl Dermott lehtonen or liljegren on the right side.

TBH just switch Robertson to the left (where he should be), slide AJ to 3rd line, Mikheyev to 2nd line RW, not a big deal imo just annoying to look at.

DeMelo is not really overpaid here. Cap is not increasing, this is likely the best he ever gets, and previous seasons he hasn't put up the most stellar of numbers. Guys like this don't make more than 3 million a year unless they're someone like Radko Gudas and hit a ton or put up more than 10-high teens points in a season. He's projected at around 2-3 million for 2-3 years. We get surprised all the time at signings and trade returns (Ex Ennis for a 5th at trade deadline) and he still overpaid on Maroon and Khudobin.

A reasonable return of futures, if you're not trading Nylander, makes enough sense. Hadyn Fleury or Jake Bean and a B-level prospect makes sense. I think that if you're trying to get closer to winning, having Pesce (25 year old, fast, defensively sound, relatively cheap for 4 more seasons) is just what you need. Nylander would put up 80+ points for the Canes so he should get something more back, but the idea of trading him and Andersen for those 2 roster players doesn't kill me.

Holl for Larsson killllllls me thank god Dubas is smarter than that... right??

Pesce... fast? Not really. He is a stay at home guy. Would fit nicely on the leafs for sure but it is not worth moving nylander for. Dubas already **** this one down so it’s not worth debating. Especially with nylander coming off a productive year and Pesce a down year and a season ending shoulder injury.

Answer thiese two questions

who is the more skilled player?

What is the most valuable position in hockey?

Khudobin and Campbell playing a split isn't a bad thing (the goalie tandem is also a trend that isn't going away); both can put up at least league average numbers behind a D corps that got way better and a forward group that can actually play defense. Also, the idea is that the 4th line can accomplish the role of an energy line while playing real hockey. Good teams do this (Dallas, Boston, St. Louis, Vegas, Philly, etc.), bad teams play AHLers and cross their fingers. Foegele/Brassard/Maroon can all get about 30pts playing about 12 minutes a night.

Losing Nylander sucks, but Dubas has signed some bad contracts. I don't think it's out of the question he gets 80 pts playing on Carolina and I'm fine to adjust the value to make it more even, but something's got to change on the leafs. I don't think this group 'sputters', especially in the playoffs. Way better D (also compared to your proposal of 2 of Holl/Liljegren/Lehtonen/DeMelo), players that can hit and actually attack the net, and hopefully another year means Marner/Matthews can continue to improve. Re: Robertson on his off-wing, that's pretty nit-picky, the lines can easily be shuffled to make it work if he doesn't learn the RW properly (or move Johnsson there, considering he was fine on the right but Kappy was the problem).

I do think 2 UFAs (Gudas according to rumours and someone else like DeMelo or Bogosian) are likely for the RHD, and Andersen being moved is a 50/50. Johnsson probably is moved for a 1st instead of Nylander but this is a spitball and an idea of how to get some energy/reliable D in one trade.

Skill? Nylander
Valuable Position? Center, but Nylander has largely played wing at the NHL level, and does not flesh out the team well. Unsure whether or not he plays top line on the Hurricanes.

Pesce has reasonably fast speed. I wouldn't say he's Cale Makar or Morgan Rielly, but he's certainly faster than average.

And just because Dubas has shot this before, doesn't mean he can't circle back to it, but that's a good point. The shoulder injury is also a good point.

He shot down a Nylander trade? The most valuable position is Center, which, Willy has only filled in on an emergency basis. In the scope of the leafs, I'd still wager the largest hole is a 1RD. The answer ofc is Willy is the more skilled player and it's a good rule of thumb to keep in mind "who gets the best player?" for sure which is why I'd lean towards getting more value back.

Dermott for a very early second no sir

The only remotely bad contract is marner, and 1m too much for a young star that puts up 90+ points isn’t that bad at all.

None of the big 4 are being moved, that much is clear.

I’m not nit picking Robertson. He just doesn’t belong there. He should be in the ahl but would be required to report to the ohl instead if they get going on dec 1st. For that reason he may make the leafs.

He is not a play or possession driver like nylander. One injury to Matthews or Tavares and we have kerfoot to look forward to centering in the top 6 with no play driver. We just became the sabres... expect the 1st line to get shut down.

My issue with going with an older goalie is the schedule being condensed. Could make for a rocky road. I think you need a 1a guy. My idea was Demko for the longest time but looks like he broke out too soon lol.

Almost forgot... please I hope there is no Gudas.

Pesce nylander was discussed with the canes while Willy was holding out and dubas shot it down and asked for slavin, they shot that down. End of talks.

@Austerity @black_Ice_94

Would leafs not be better off targeting one rhd. Demelo Hamonic Bogasian or shattenkirk petro etc costs you nothing. A player like Cernak could be had for futures, Other players as well that would come much cheaper than nylander.

Petro will be too expensive unless we move a big 4 contract. Those other players are good fits for sure but I'm a bit uneasy just grabbing one since none of them are real first line D. But if we're able to grab multiple it's possible to have all D not crutched on too much and the top 4 RHD not getting too much more than 20min a night (unless they're blocking shots like Hamonic/Tanev types and needed in the playoffs). I've been a fan of Cernak for ages but I'm not sure they'd shop him because of his age/they have plenty of depth across their lineup and want to win now. If it's possible I'd do it.

I'd prefer Robertson on the third line or in the AHL but as you said he'd have to play Junior unless he signs overseas. There's a chance he improves after watching footage back on the playdriving/teamwork, he got a bit tunnel-visioned on shooting against CBJ.

Personally I think Marner is overpaid by closer to $2M, and with JT's $11M and Rielly coming up it looks a bit rough. Kind of wish we had have kept Kadri.

I think the Leafs need to add 2 RHD to be closer to a cup contender. Holl in the top 4 is okay - I really do like him, but imagine having Holl on the 3rd pairing?? Now we mean business. And having a more well-rounded attack and forecheck is what we need as well, but let's focus on the defense:

DeMelo is a cheap enough, defensively-oriented guy who ticks a lot of boxes for the Leafs. A little better than Holl at almost everything so he's great.

Gudas is someone Dubas has been talking to in the off-season. Idk exactly why you're not a fan of him, but I'll admit I haven't had many opportunities to watch him play this past year. His stat line shows he's good defensively and has a lot of hits, which is a nice-to-have aspect in a defenseman.

On that note, Cernak for Liljegren is an idea I have been very fond of. I've floated that idea a lot a lot. Cernak is like Schenn except more fleet of foot with less bruising ability, which is a good tradeoff.

I've honestly never been the biggest fan of Hamonic, not gonna say much else, but he blocks hella shots so I could see it working. I think he costs too much for what you get and there are better options in Free Agency or through trade, could be wrong though.

I know Matt Roy and Sean Walker are decent options too. Bogosian as well. Shattenkirk I'm honestly not sold on because I'm not sure it adds a different element to the team. Petro is the expensive on one the books and it seems nearly impossible.

I've talked in other threads about how expensive Parayko would be and I'm not interested in exploring that route too much. I think the ask is too high and he's a tad overrated.

He can not sign over seas. Nhl or ohl.

I’m a bit more flexible. Not convinced of the mythical unicorn 1rhd that will guide us to the promised land.

Give me 4 good Dmen and four capable nhl Dmen. Sprinkle some decent team defence on top. It’s a six man job, not a 2 man job. Keep Dermott sign Demelo. That gives us a good top 4 that muzzin and Rielly can carry. Leaves us with Dermott Sandin, liljegren and the wildcard lehtonen. Judging by what he is doing overseas right now I am confident. Maybe he’s a bottom pairing or maybe he’s more. We won’t know right away.

I think he's at least a bottom pairing, seems good enough with the puck and can actually shoot from the point (none of our guys are dangerous from the blue line). Hard to find clips showing his gap control/hard to know how he'll fair against NHL forechecking, he's a good skater most of the time but slightly wonky other times. Good vision though. I also don't think 1 RHD magically fixes our team (the bottom 6 isn't energy-based at all, and the team relies on transition plays like it's junior, can't attack the net, and the forwards are poor at winning board battles, and the defensive effort isn't consistent/we puck watch).