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Hear me out

Created by: CaptJosef
Team: 2020-21 Philadelphia Flyers
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 9, 2020
Published: Sep. 9, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
The key to understanding the Senators trade is that Ottawa currently has $19m on IR, most of whom are just contracts to make them cap compliant. Voracek is only owed $5.875m a year for a cap hit of $8.25m. He'd also currently, comfortably, be the Sens highest point producer. Likewise, Ghost is owed $3.25m for a cap hit of $4.5m and would likely slot into the Sens top 4 (I could actually see a pairing with Zaitsev working fairly well but that might just be me).
Cap wise these players improve the Sens roster and provided the sort of cap hit to salary cost the Sens are looking for. I've even taken Gabborik back to free up any costs they might have occurred from his contract.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
6$4,500,000
1$1,150,000
3$1,500,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
6$9,000,000
2$1,250,000
2$1,150,000
Trades
1.
PHI
  1. Gáborík, Marián
  2. 2020 1st round pick (NYI)
  3. 2020 3rd round pick (WPG)
2.
PHI
  1. Schneider, Cory ($3,000,000 retained)
  2. Subban, P.K. ($4,500,000 retained)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the WPG
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the MTL
2021
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
2022
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the PHI
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$64,917,465$66,037$602,500$16,582,535
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,137,500$4,137,500
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,333,333$4,333,333
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 5
$9,000,000$9,000,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,571,429$3,571,429
C
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,150,000$1,150,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$2,300,000$2,300,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,250,000$1,250,000
LW, C
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,725,000$4,725,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$5,750,000$5,750,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$730,833$730,833 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
-$2,300,000-$2,300,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$700,000$700,000
LD, LW
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,875,000$4,875,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,150,000$1,150,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$736,666$736,666 (Performance Bonus$20,000$20K)
C, LW
UFA - 1

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Sep. 9, 2020 at 1:58 a.m.
#1
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Don't think Ottawa would consider this trade. They aren't competing so adding Voracek doesn't make sense for them. Voracek is an interesting case. He's productive (although at times inconsistent), but he is over-paid, expensive, and over the age of 30. We'd have to send him to a team that is somewhat relevant, but also can afford to add him or at least have a cap dump they want to get rid of that they can add to the trade. Very few teams fit that mold.

Columbus, Carolina, Montreal, and Vancouver are the teams that come to mind. Carolina has enough talent on their roster to trade for a better asset that earns this level of money so lets take them off the list for now. Vancouver is the most interesting one. They could use his help, but cap wise it would come down to Philly taking on a bad contract like Roussel or Beagle, and also it would pretty much mean they can't bring back Markstrom.

But moral of the story to be honest those are the 4 main teams I think any Voracek trade could "realistically" happen with.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:05 a.m.
#2
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NJ gets JVR at 14.5M lmao
And that’s it
No compensation
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:13 a.m.
#3
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Voracek makes no sense with the timing of Ottawa's rebuild, and even if he makes less than his cap hit, that doesn't mean the Sens are "saving money", because they are spending money they don't need to on a player who doesn't fit at all with the timing for this team.

Ghost also doesn't make very much sense for Ottawa. The Sens have offensive/puck moving LD, what they need is a legitimate top 4 defender in the style of what Marc Methot was for Ottawa years back. Right now they have nobody who plays a Defense first game that is any good. Also your proposal of Gost-Zaitsev would be an unmitigated disaster defensively.

"Taking on" Gaborik's contract isn't really incentive for Ottawa to do anything. The Sens are trying to save money through the rebuild and operate with a low overhead while they are a basement team. To that end, Gaborik give the team nearly 5mil against the cap, with a cost basically a league min contract in real money.
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Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:15 a.m.
#4
mokumboi
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I'm struggling to understand how you think that Devils trade works. You want NJ to retain $15M on two players AND then take a declining asset that will put them on the hook for $21M, and they get nothing else in return... is that about the size of it?
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:16 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: Mintyfresh
Don't think Ottawa would consider this trade. They aren't competing so adding Voracek doesn't make sense for them. Voracek is an interesting case. He's productive (although at times inconsistent), but he is over-paid, expensive, and over the age of 30. We'd have to send him to a team that is somewhat relevant, but also can afford to add him or at least have a cap dump they want to get rid of that they can add to the trade. Very few teams fit that mold.

Columbus, Carolina, Montreal, and Vancouver are the teams that come to mind. Carolina has enough talent on their roster to trade for a better asset that earns this level of money so lets take them off the list for now. Vancouver is the most interesting one. They could use his help, but cap wise it would come down to Philly taking on a bad contract like Roussel or Beagle, and also it would pretty much mean they can't bring back Markstrom.

But moral of the story to be honest those are the 4 main teams I think any Voracek trade could "realistically" happen with.


Ottawa have to try and compete (or move in that direction) sooner or later and like I say, they had $19m on IR this season. Well, here's ~$13m that can actually feature to push the team forward. They have 2 good /great young D and a few good forwards. Plus with 2 picks in the top 5 (fair to think at least one of them makes opening night roster) it's reasonable to say they need to take a step forward and plug in some decent players around that youth.

The Sens don't need more picks for cap dumps as they have loads of picks already. They need some players who can contribute while also eating cap to make them compliant. They'll also want to do that with players whose real wage is lower than their cap hit (because Melnyk is so tight).

I could see there being other teams that were interested in Jake but for most teams his cap hit is prohibitive, for the Sens that's not the case, it's a bonus.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:19 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: GMs
NJ gets JVR at 14.5M lmao
And that’s it
No compensation


Doesn't quite work like that does it, they actually save 500k in cap. And for a player that has more use than Subban last season and a $6m backup goalie.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:27 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: mokumboi
I'm struggling to understand how you think that Devils trade works. You want NJ to retain $15M on two players AND then take a declining asset that will put them on the hook for $21M, and they get nothing else in return... is that about the size of it?


Two bad contracts for one less good contract. The values of cap equal out. Currently they pay Subban and Schneider $15m. After the trade they pay Subban, Schneider, and JVR $14.5m and have the better player of the 3.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:32 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Claesson4Norris
Voracek makes no sense with the timing of Ottawa's rebuild, and even if he makes less than his cap hit, that doesn't mean the Sens are "saving money", because they are spending money they don't need to on a player who doesn't fit at all with the timing for this team.

Ghost also doesn't make very much sense for Ottawa. The Sens have offensive/puck moving LD, what they need is a legitimate top 4 defender in the style of what Marc Methot was for Ottawa years back. Right now they have nobody who plays a Defense first game that is any good. Also your proposal of Gost-Zaitsev would be an unmitigated disaster defensively.

"Taking on" Gaborik's contract isn't really incentive for Ottawa to do anything. The Sens are trying to save money through the rebuild and operate with a low overhead while they are a basement team. To that end, Gaborik give the team nearly 5mil against the cap, with a cost basically a league min contract in real money.


As I've said above I disagree with the the whole rebuild timing thing. They have good young players in the NHL now, and they're about to add two more with the two top 5 picks (both of whom could well feature on opening night). They also have 13 picks in round 1-3 in the next two drafts. I'd argue this is exactly the time they need to add some better players around their youth. Especially while the flat cap means teams near the cap ceiling will have less leverage.

Edut: They also had $16m in salary on IR for $19m cap space this past season. Gaborik is owed $3m in salary next season too (though I believe insurance probably covers it).
Sep. 9, 2020 at 2:40 a.m.
#9
mokumboi
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Quoting: CaptJosef
Two bad contracts for one less good contract. The values of cap equal out. Currently they pay Subban and Schneider $15m. After the trade they pay Subban, Schneider, and JVR $14.5m and have the better player of the 3.


Umm, your math is way off. You're counting up as if they're all on one-year deals.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 3:15 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: CaptJosef
As I've said above I disagree with the the whole rebuild timing thing. They have good young players in the NHL now, and they're about to add two more with the two top 5 picks (both of whom could well feature on opening night). They also have 13 picks in round 1-3 in the next two drafts. I'd argue this is exactly the time they need to add some better players around their youth. Especially while the flat cap means teams near the cap ceiling will have less leverage.

Edut: They also had $16m in salary on IR for $19m cap space this past season. Gaborik is owed $3m in salary next season too (though I believe insurance probably covers it).


Even if both top 5 picks play, and are ready next year (I think it's more likely that neither plays than both play), this team is still at least a couple of years away from the playoffs, probably another year or two before they hit legitimate cup contender status. Best case scenario, by the time Ottawa is legitimately ready to contend for the cup, you have Voracek at 34/35 with one year left. And given the inconsistency year over year with Voracek, I'm not betting on him being nearly as effective by then.

I'm not saying they don't need to add experience who can play around the young group they are putting together, but just think that experience needs to come in the form of guys who also fit the timeline on a longer term. They should look at players in the 24-29 range. Experience doesn't have to mean an old guy, it can be a player like Anďre Burakovsky who is only 25, but has 6 full seasons of NHL experience and nearly a full regular season's worth of playoff games including a Cup.
Sep. 9, 2020 at 4:01 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: CaptJosef
Ottawa have to try and compete (or move in that direction) sooner or later and like I say, they had $19m on IR this season. Well, here's ~$13m that can actually feature to push the team forward. They have 2 good /great young D and a few good forwards. Plus with 2 picks in the top 5 (fair to think at least one of them makes opening night roster) it's reasonable to say they need to take a step forward and plug in some decent players around that youth.

The Sens don't need more picks for cap dumps as they have loads of picks already. They need some players who can contribute while also eating cap to make them compliant. They'll also want to do that with players whose real wage is lower than their cap hit (because Melnyk is so tight).

I could see there being other teams that were interested in Jake but for most teams his cap hit is prohibitive, for the Sens that's not the case, it's a bonus.

Voracek’s cap hit is not a bonus at all lmao, it’s actually prohibitive. Vora still has 4 years left, which outlasts everyone’s ELCs, and puts us in a cap crunch down the line. If we’re going to give up some of our draft picks it’ll be either a late pick for a bottom 6 veteran signed to 2 years or less, or if it’s a higher pick we’ll be going for younger players that will be veterans by the time we’re competitive or reclamation projects (e.g. a 3rd for Athanasiou). It makes absolutely no sense to trade for anyone whose age begins with a 3, and especially not to give up a 1st for him. In general Vora is virtually untradeable, and he’s not worth a 1st anymore due to his decline, massive cap hit, term, and the fact that we have a flat cap now.
 
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