I'm not basing this off of the rumours such as freeing space for Pietrangelo or anything like that. Just simple, cheap options to fill the team.
I tried to do this trade free, and frankly, it wasn't that hard. I targeted veteran UFAs, and even then, struggled with which ones to go for. I was originally going to go for 1.5Mx1Y for Mikko Koivu to play 4C, but decided on keeping Spezza around as 4C and grabbing Simmonds at 1Mx1Y to add some veteran grit, and a guy who can PK since Koivu was to be a PK Center.
The other decisions were all about defensive configuration. I could go out and go for Brodie at 4M, or Gudas closer to 2M, but either of those would've required a move in some capacity, likely one of Johnsson or Kerfoot being sold low due to an injury-riddled season for Johnsson and frankly tough PP production for Kerfoot. I like the Muzzin-Holl pair as a match-up pair, and frankly, Dermott is capable on the right-side. Statistically, his 21-23 YO seasons are very closely matched to Nate Schmidt's 23-25 YO seasons, and they play similar styles. Leafs own former video coach has continuously stated that trying Dermott on the right-side with Rielly is probably a better fit than trying to force a guy like Gudas into top 4 minutes.
That left the bottom pair, where again, Gudas was a decent fit, but I think Liljegren can only learn what he needs now in the NHL. He is lacking an explosive first step, which will limit his offensive upside, but he plays a solid two-way game, closes gaps efficiently, and has really worked on his physicality in cutting guys off and winning board battles. He has an excellent first pass, and was an AHL All-Star. Unlike Sandin, who has some defensive gaps he can work on in the AHL, Liljegren's biggest weakness in his NHL stint was adapting to NHL Timing. You can't learn that in the AHL, you have to adapt, and while I'd like to see him insulated with a player like Muzzin while Rielly-Dermott split match-up duty, the Leafs likely don't have that luxury, which means playing P3 with an offensive-minded player like Lehtonen could work.
Last note if my Liljegren rant didn't convince you of why he should be playing NHL minutes instead of AHL, there is still space so that if you send Liljegren down to the AHL, you also send down Korshkov, keep Brooks as the spare, and have the 2M necessary for Gudas.
When Liljegren was on the ice the Leafs were hammered — outscored 8-3 in just over 100 5-on-5 minutes, with a 37 percent expected goals mark. And that was with sheltered third pair assignments. He has never really looked good from the Marlies games I’ve watched. IMO they need to package him for a top pairing D for Rielly. I can’t see him becoming much more than a third-pair depth D.
RD still sucks. Sandin should make the roster. This team is still a 1st round exit
Sandin and Lilejgren both need to build some upper body strength. The NHL is a tough league and that's my one takeaway from both of them being with the Leafs this past season.
IMO the Leafs should keep both of them with the Marlies and help them with that upper body strength I mentioned and only be called up to fill in due to injuries.
Sandin and Lilejgren both need to build some upper body strength. The NHL is a tough league and that's my one takeaway from both of them being with the Leafs this past season.
IMO the Leafs should keep both of them with the Marlies and help them with that upper body strength I mentioned and only be called up to fill in due to injuries.
Liljegren yes, Sandin is ready for 3rd pair minutes.
Liljegren yes, Sandin is ready for 3rd pair minutes.
I watched every game and while the skill is there, the strength is not. He got roughed up, pushed around too much for my liking. That has to improve if he's staying in the NHL long term.
When Liljegren was on the ice the Leafs were hammered — outscored 8-3 in just over 100 5-on-5 minutes, with a 37 percent expected goals mark. And that was with sheltered third pair assignments. He has never really looked good from the Marlies games I’ve watched. IMO they need to package him for a top pairing D for Rielly. I can’t see him becoming much more than a third-pair depth D.
Liljegren was a top dman in the AHL, and it showed from getting 1D ice time. Frankly, his worst performances from a viewing perspective were next to Sandin, as his role changed to pure shutdown and he couldn't really jump into the play at all as Sandin at the AHL can go full offense. That's another reason why I think getting him away from Sandin in the NHL would help. Yeah, his GF and xGF were not great, but did you go back and watch his shifts. Outside of 1 specific giveaway I can think of which led to e HD chance, but not a goal, that really didn't fall on him. I remember one play where Sandin lost his man in the corner, the guy challenged to the net, where Liljegren stuck to his man and in doing so, covered the pass and the lane through the crease, and the player proceeded to roof a shortside shot over Freddy before even getting to where Liljegren could cut him off. Liljegren didn't play again that period, and I think that was a terrible decision.
In Liljegren's own words, it's hard to get into a game as a defenseman when you are playing only 10 minutes a game. Shifts are irregular, you feel pressure to not make a single mistake, and he was adjusting. Giving him at least 15 minutes a night on the 3rd pair I think would go a long way for his play.
Lastly, I don't know how much AHL you watched, but he was fantastic on a terrible team. That team couldn't score if their lives depended on it, and he did everything he could as PP1, PK1, and P1 to will them to some victories. If you don't take my word, here's a good breakdown of Liljegren, which was backed by former Leafs Video Coach Jack Han: https://twitter.com/SammyT_51/status/1297871725577764865
Dont burst their bubble, they think Holl is second coming of Lidström
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Liljegren yes, Sandin is ready for 3rd pair minutes.
We have multiple LD who should earn ice time over Sandin (for now) in Rielly, Muzzin, and Dermott. I expect Lehtonen to be given every opportunity for a roster spot, Holl will be playing, which leaves only 1 spot. Sandin isn't sitting in the press box, so either He's 3rd Pair with Lehtonen playing RD, Liljegren makes the team, or a UFA was signed.
As much as I love Sandin's offensive flair, he has defensive weaknesses. He's much more physical than often given credit for, but deciding when to pinch could use work, and learning how to battle in front of the net as a smaller dman hasn't clicked yet for him, not to mention trying to win puck battles along the boards which Liljegren really improved in the last 2 years. He can play 28 minutes a night in the AHL, get work on PK1 to further his Defensive Acumen, and be the first call up for injuries. I think it makes a lot of sense for him to start his Age 20 season in the AHL if his NHL role is going to be limited to at most 14 minutes a night of sheltered 3rd pair and the odd PP2 shift when there are other defensemen who can do that.
Sandin and Lilejgren both need to build some upper body strength. The NHL is a tough league and that's my one takeaway from both of them being with the Leafs this past season.
IMO the Leafs should keep both of them with the Marlies and help them with that upper body strength I mentioned and only be called up to fill in due to injuries.
As mentioned in an above reply, Sandin has a higher ceiling, but he has more work to do defensively right now than Liljegren, and Liljegren needs to work on speeding up his moves for NHL-level opponents. Sandin working in the AHL on his pinches, net-front battles and board battles with PK1 could go a long way, and Liljegren could soak up some responsibility in the NHL. He has gotten a lot stronger in the past year (Liljegren, not Sandin), and can now handle NHL physicality. I'll link to the great thread on Liljegren' defensive physicality and gap again here: https://twitter.com/SammyT_51/status/1297871725577764865
Dont burst their bubble, they think Holl is second coming of Lidström
Nearly every Leafs AGM on this site has Holl moved for like a 4th round pick. Simple answer is he's a 4/5 guy. With a talented shutdown player like Muzzin, he can thrive in that role as the complimentary piece. Without him, as seen when Dermott moved up with Muzzin injured during the season and playoffs, he struggled. He can't handle that role without a Muzzin-esque guy next to him, again showing that while he's likely best suited as a #5, with that quality guy next to him, he's completely adequate in the #4 role.
I watched every game and while the skill is there, the strength is not. He got roughed up, pushed around too much for my liking. That has to improve if he's staying in the NHL long term.
Thats why you limit his minutes. He does however need more exposure to hp with his transition imo
Liljegren was a top dman in the AHL, and it showed from getting 1D ice time. Frankly, his worst performances from a viewing perspective were next to Sandin, as his role changed to pure shutdown and he couldn't really jump into the play at all as Sandin at the AHL can go full offense. That's another reason why I think getting him away from Sandin in the NHL would help. Yeah, his GF and xGF were not great, but did you go back and watch his shifts. Outside of 1 specific giveaway I can think of which led to e HD chance, but not a goal, that really didn't fall on him. I remember one play where Sandin lost his man in the corner, the guy challenged to the net, where Liljegren stuck to his man and in doing so, covered the pass and the lane through the crease, and the player proceeded to roof a shortside shot over Freddy before even getting to where Liljegren could cut him off. Liljegren didn't play again that period, and I think that was a terrible decision.
In Liljegren's own words, it's hard to get into a game as a defenseman when you are playing only 10 minutes a game. Shifts are irregular, you feel pressure to not make a single mistake, and he was adjusting. Giving him at least 15 minutes a night on the 3rd pair I think would go a long way for his play.
Lastly, I don't know how much AHL you watched, but he was fantastic on a terrible team. That team couldn't score if their lives depended on it, and he did everything he could as PP1, PK1, and P1 to will them to some victories. If you don't take my word, here's a good breakdown of Liljegren, which was backed by former Leafs Video Coach Jack Han: https://twitter.com/SammyT_51/status/1297871725577764865
With 30 points in 40 games for the Marlies, Liljegren doubled his 2018-19 production, earning the trust of Sheldon Keefe and then Moore in all situations. Certainly, he’ll be on call as a reserve for the Maple Leafs next year.
In his brief big-league trial, Liljegren was sparingly used (10:18 average ice time) in sheltered minutes. He was a minus-5 who played most of his time in his own end (44.2 CF%). Yes he was with Sandin but where do you see him fitting in next year.
Rielly New RD (hopefully)
Muzzin Lehtonen
Dermott Holl
It’s not hard to admit that Rasmus Sandin is a smarter player than Liljegren. Sandin’s ability to manage the puck, move it up the ice, and be creative with it for the purpose of possession shot him through the Marlies faster. Liljegren doesn’t have the same raw talents as Sandin, and probably won’t acclimate to the NHL as quickly.
I would love it if he pans out to a top 4D but I just don’t see it.
With a talented shutdown player like Muzzin, he can thrive in that role as the complimentary piece. Without him, as seen when Dermott moved up with Muzzin injured during the season and playoffs, he struggled. He can't handle that role without a Muzzin-esque guy next to him
We do agree here
Quoting: Leafs_Storm
Nearly every Leafs AGM on this site has Holl moved for like a 4th round pick. Simple answer is he's a 4/5 guy. Again showing that while he's likely best suited as a #5, with that quality guy next to him, he's completely adequate in the #4 role.
And here we dont. The current trend in TML fan base is : Beggars cant be choosers and all at the sudden Holl is the best that ever happened to TML on right side. Tandem work is spread 65% to 35% against Muzzin and he needs quality working horse to unload him, so he wont be doing 65% of tandems job and wont look 45y old after 50 Games.
Holl is No.6 Quality D that is supposed to fill for injuries. With Sandin and now Lehtonen + Liljegren all being in 900k ball park, those 3 x 2M that Muzzin made happen for Holl are complete waste of much needed Cap.
I think Leafs will be making more trades in this offseason.
I agree with @onex that both Liljergen and especially Sandin need to build some upper body strength, right now they are far too easily pushed off the puck.
I have hard time believing that Andersen wont be traded, he is more tradeable now than ever with his new team only having to 1 million of his salary as 4 million has been paid by Leafs via signing bonus.
And I dont think he will be the only one traded.
We maybe have to end up settling for a 2nd pair D man in the 1st pair role.
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