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Nylander plus for Gibson plus

Created by: MatthewsDynasty
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 16, 2020
Published: Sep. 16, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,350,000
1$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$2,157,500
1$1,157,500
3$3,025,000
1$950,000
1$750,000
Trades
1.
2.
TOR
  1. 2021 2nd round pick (CAR)
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$76,904,917$0$0$4,595,083
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$821,667$821,667
LW, RW
RFA - 4
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$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$1,350,000$1,350,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
$2,157,500$2,157,500
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 3
$1,157,500$1,157,500
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
$950,000$950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
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$750,000$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$3,025,000$3,025,000
RD
UFA - 4
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$6,400,000$6,400,000
G
UFA - 7
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
$2,050,000$2,050,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,650,000$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1

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Sep. 16, 2020 at 3:35 p.m.
#26
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Lenny7
Johnsson-Dime a dozen 3rd liner who can play up a bit. Lots of these guys available, and most cost less. Spare part.
Dermott-Bottom pairing d-man who has a bit of potential, but hasn't reached it. Lots of these guys available. Spare part.
Bracco-No need to really comment on him. Adds zero value. Not even a spare part.
Nylander-Excellent player. Would love to have him on my team, but there's not a lot of point if you're trading away 2 of your valuable players, one of whom is one of the top goaltenders in the world.
1st round pick-Given that you're adding Manson and Gibson, this should be a late pick in a questionable draft. If I was a GM today, and I was pretty confident I'd be a top 20 team next year, I'd have no problem giving it up, especially given the lack of minor league hockey that will be played this year.

Manson-Not going to waste my breath arguing with you about him because you've clearly made up your mind and it'll never change.
Gibby-26 year old all world goaltender on an outstanding contract. You move him, you might as well tear the whole thing down.

As for the "Well just go sign another goalie!"-You're not going to get anywhere close to that caliber player at anywhere close to that caliber price. YOU go and find a goalie.


Close to the same caliber? Yes.... possibly.

I mean if you just want to arbitrarily call all the leafs players junk... that’s not really debatable and you are entitled to your opinion. I’m pretty high on Dermott though. Johnsson is a 40-50 point player. Is better than Kapanen in my opinion. But I do agree about bracco.

The piece that isn’t being moved is nylander. I do think gibson is a great goalie but I would not move a player like nylander for ANY goalie.

Have you ever seen a proven star top 6 LW RW C moved for a goalie?

Manson had twice as many goals on his own net than in the Opposition. A pylon would have broke even. The last two seasons he has not looked good.
Sep. 16, 2020 at 3:40 p.m.
#27
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Dear Jamie: I don't think that the argument that because we've never seen a franchise goalie (Price, Lundqvist, Rask, Quick, Hellebuyck, Vassilevskiy) or even Stanley-Cup-winning goalie (Murray, Holtby) traded in his prime, therefore the trade value of such a goalie isn't high. I think that the opposite conclusion is more likely to be true: that the price is so high, no one can afford it.

The only trade offer I would entertain for John Gibson is Nylander, Liljegren and the 15th overall in this draft. And I would only do so if I'd already had some positive contacts with Robin Lehner's agent.


If you go back and read my first post I actually came to the opposite conclusion.

The price is too low to move a great goalie in their prime.

Please see “Patrick Roy Trade” sorry but goalies just don’t have that much value in a trade. Roy won cups and vezina’s ... single handed practically and as a rookie.

That is probably the last time you will see a trade like that. Goalies are usually more valuable to their team than as a trade asset.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Sep. 16, 2020 at 3:55 p.m.
#28
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Leaf fans constantly say Matthews is the best goal scorer in the NHL. If he is indeed the best goal scorer (I think he is certainly up there) why has he not won the Rocket Richard every season? Or even once???
Also, they are spare parts. Johnson is already 25, has only put together 1 solid season playing on a offense juggernaut team. Dermott is a solid defender. But thats all. That trade does not get Manson or Gibson


Matthews has only one full season in the nhl. His rookie season. I argue that if the season went to 82 games that he may have won.

I also don’t go around arguing that Matthews is the best goal scorer in the league. 5v5 yup he’s the best. Goals per game... pretty sure he is up there too. I would argue that he is easily in the top 5 and in his way to the top.

I’m not an insane blue glasses fan like some people @Lenny7 would like to paint me as.

My point is goalies don’t hold that much value in a trade. Not that gibson isn’t great. Or even that the ducks should trade him for what teams would be willing to offer.

With all of the other goalies available leafs would certainly be better off holding on to nylander and sign someone else or keep Andersen.
Sep. 16, 2020 at 5:17 p.m.
#29
Lenny7
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Quoting: Jamiepo

Manson had twice as many goals on his own net than in the Opposition. A pylon would have broke even. The last two seasons he has not looked good.


Oh yeah! You’re the guy that thinks that teams can absolutely control the puck 100% of the game, so they actually don’t need defensive dmen. Not a lot of point discussing it with you if that’s your view.

Cheers!
Sep. 16, 2020 at 8:16 p.m.
#30
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Lenny7
Oh yeah! You’re the guy that thinks that teams can absolutely control the puck 100% of the game, so they actually don’t need defensive dmen. Not a lot of point discussing it with you if that’s your view.

Cheers!


No, you are mistaking me for someone else. I would like to get a decent stay at home guy or more preferably a two way guy who is decent in his own end.

Manson is looking a lot like Zaitsev... we just hotly rid of that contract.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 6:56 a.m.
#31
Lenny7
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Quoting: Jamiepo
No, you are mistaking me for someone else. I would like to get a decent stay at home guy or more preferably a two way guy who is decent in his own end.

Manson is looking a lot like Zaitsev... we just hotly rid of that contract.


Manson looking a lot like Zaitsev? That's a pretty hot take...

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/z/zaitsni01.html
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mansojo01.html

Please don't ever put these two in the same conversation again.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 8:56 a.m.
#32
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Lenny7
Manson looking a lot like Zaitsev? That's a pretty hot take...

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/z/zaitsni01.html
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mansojo01.html

Please don't ever put these two in the same conversation again.


So... zaitsev played more minutes had more blocked shots and points everything else looks pretty even. Was there a particular stat you wanted to point to?
Sep. 17, 2020 at 9:30 a.m.
#33
Lenny7
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Quoting: Jamiepo
So... zaitsev played more minutes had more blocked shots and points everything else looks pretty even. Was there a particular stat you wanted to point to?


His corsi% rel and FF% rel are quite literally the worst in the league.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 10:28 a.m.
#34
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Lenny7
His corsi% rel and FF% rel are quite literally the worst in the league.


Quoting: Lenny7
His corsi% rel and FF% rel are quite literally the worst in the league.


Yet they are doing literally the same thing on the ice. But the puck possession is skewed. This is why I don’t put much stock in Corsi.

I would wager that if they were to trade places the Corsi would swap as well.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 1:02 p.m.
#35
Lenny7
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Quoting: Jamiepo
Yet they are doing literally the same thing on the ice. But the puck possession is skewed. This is why I don’t put much stock in Corsi.

I would wager that if they were to trade places the Corsi would swap as well.


But why is the puck possession skewed? Both played on bad teams this year, yet one has an expected goals against of 30.9, while the other is 42.3. Even when he was playing for the Leafs, a notoriously solid puck possession team, Zaitsev put up extremely negative results.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 1:56 p.m.
#36
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: Lenny7
But why is the puck possession skewed? Both played on bad teams this year, yet one has an expected goals against of 30.9, while the other is 42.3. Even when he was playing for the Leafs, a notoriously solid puck possession team, Zaitsev put up extremely negative results.


Believe it or not ottawa is a much tougher team to play for. I mean atleast Manson has Fowler and lindholm. Zaitsev has little to no help. In Toronto he was paired with Gardner, not much help there either.

As an example have a look at Holl

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hollju01.html

And he was on for a ton of top line assignments.
Sep. 17, 2020 at 3:46 p.m.
#37
Lenny7
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Quoting: Jamiepo
Believe it or not ottawa is a much tougher team to play for. I mean atleast Manson has Fowler and lindholm. Zaitsev has little to no help. In Toronto he was paired with Gardner, not much help there either.

As an example have a look at Holl

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hollju01.html

And he was on for a ton of top line assignments.


Manson was on for the majority of top line assignments, Lindholm missed a bunch of games, as did Fowler, leaving Manson with any combination of Guhle, Larsson or Djoos. Over the past two seasons, the Ducks have the most man games lost to injury.

The fact that you're comparing Zaitsev and Manson is laughable. They shouldn't even be in the same conversation.
 
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