To help with cap problems down the road, would flip deangelo at the 2021-22 deadline (might need to be at the 20-21 deadline as we would have 4 defenseman we want to protect (deangelo, trouba (nmc), dunn, and Lindgren) but can only protect 3. Miller and lundkvist would take the bottom d pairing. In a summer or 2 we would trade trouba, at this point, fox is likely a top pairing defenseman--> no reason to pay a second pairing guy 8 mil. Would retain about 2 million of Troubas contract to have his contract match a high end second pairing guy.
Between trading deangelo and trouba, and the contracts of staal and henrik expiring, we will free up around 25 mil in cap for extensions for players like kakko, zibanejad, dunn, Fox and cirelli. Additionally, we could trade chytil at the deadline this year or the draft next summer and move copp to third line and barron or a cheap veteran center to the fourth line C role. With cirelli at 2 C and copp at 3 C we would be much better defensively.
After these trades our Lines would be something like (assuming progress)
Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko
Lafreniere - Cirellii - Kravtsov
Kreider- Copp - Fast
Gauthier - Barron - Lemieux
Dunn - Fox
Lindgren - Lundkvist
Miller - A solid 2 way veteran d man could be someone like nate schmidt- would trade for him and have vegas retain 50%, or colin miller. (am thinking a player who will be on cheaper end and has playoff experience. kinda like what Patrick Maroon was for St Louis- important off the ice and steps up in clutch moments)
For expansion draft, would protect kreider, mika, panarin, cirelli, chytil, copp, and maybe fast on offense. Kakko, laf, and kravstov are exempt. On defense would protect Dunn, Trouba (nmc), and lindgren, would likely need to trade something to keep deangelo, or would need to trade deangelo. Idk who we would protect in goal, depends on if hank is still playing, and shesterkin is exempt
with the way kravtsov is playing.. we ain't trading him unless were getting a barkov esc type player
Lmao yes let's ignore the atrocity that was his 19-20 campaign, where he ****ed and moaned his way out of Hartford and stunk it up in Russia, and focus solely on the 6 games he's played this year. Get a grip dude
I can’t see oilers giving up that first rounder unless it’s a perfect fit for the roster and I can’t say how well he would produce on the left wing because of that uncertainty have to pass. The right side is full with the expected return of JP. Respectfully decline but thank you for the offer.
Lmao yes let's ignore the atrocity that was his 19-20 campaign, where he ****ed and moaned his way out of Hartford and stunk it up in Russia, and focus solely on the 6 games he's played this year. Get a grip dude
Sometimes it’s about what you’ve done more recently and with no need to move him why not just let him keep doing what he’s doing clearly there is a level of talent in him that can be regrettable.
Lmao yes let's ignore the atrocity that was his 19-20 campaign, where he ****ed and moaned his way out of Hartford and stunk it up in Russia, and focus solely on the 6 games he's played this year. Get a grip dude
Fair, I had not looked into his recent production. I was more so thinking that with our top 6 wingers set with kakko, panarin, kreids, and laf he could be seen as expendable. But given his production I agree it would be dumb to sell now. His offensive talent is incredible. Thoughts on the new version of the trade. This is better value than the lightning would receive if they get RFA compensation.
I can’t see oilers giving up that first rounder unless it’s a perfect fit for the roster and I can’t say how well he would produce on the left wing because of that uncertainty have to pass. The right side is full with the expected return of JP. Respectfully decline but thank you for the offer.
The reason I valued it at a first and third was because of the kapanen deal. I feel that buch is a player of similar value to kapanen, and can elevate his offensive skill and IQ allows him to elevate his game when playing with elite players. While the Right wing is kind of crowded in Edmonton, I feel that he like namestnikov did in Tampa, could be a very good addition to an already dynamic offense.
Fair, I had not looked into his recent production. I was more so thinking that with our top 6 wingers set with kakko, panarin, kreids, and laf he could be seen as expendable. But given his production I agree it would be dumb to sell now. His offensive talent is incredible. Thoughts on the new version of the trade. This is better value than the lightning would receive if they get RFA compensation.
Rykov is buried on the Rangers defensive depth chart so I could see him being moved. Not sure what is upside is though, and he seems sold on staying in Russia. Overall not bad though it's better than some of the other trades i've seen on here
Lmao yes let's ignore the atrocity that was his 19-20 campaign, where he ****ed and moaned his way out of Hartford and stunk it up in Russia, and focus solely on the 6 games he's played this year. Get a grip dude
Quoting: Timmah007
Sometimes it’s about what you’ve done more recently and with no need to move him why not just let him keep doing what he’s doing clearly there is a level of talent in him that can be regrettable.
ah yes the classic he's a bust because he didn't light it up as every 19 year old should. Simply put it he's not available so no need to get salty and just move on to a dif proposal. The kid will be a top 6 guy and you clearly haven't watched his game enough to realize that whether its next year, the year after, or the year after that.
Sometimes it’s about what you’ve done more recently and with no need to move him why not just let him keep doing what he’s doing clearly there is a level of talent in him that can be regrettable.
I understand that, but to completely throw away what happened last year for a grand total of 6 games is completely irrational. You will see it soon with Lias Andersson as well- he's playing well in SHL's pre season so pretty soon people will think he's worth a mid first round pick.
The reason I valued it at a first and third was because of the kapanen deal. I feel that buch is a player of similar value to kapanen, and can elevate his offensive skill and IQ allows him to elevate his game when playing with elite players. While the Right wing is kind of crowded in Edmonton, I feel that he like namestnikov did in Tampa, could be a very good addition to an already dynamic offense.
Not completely against the idea just adding RW depth isn’t going to help the oilers cause trying to bring back jp. I just wouldn’t pay a significant price to jeopardize any progress made. Perhaps if jp negotiation goes south before the draft I’d consider circling back to this.
ah yes the classic he's a bust because he didn't light it up as every 19 year old should. Simply put it he's not available so no need to get salty and just move on to a dif proposal. The kid will be a top 6 guy and you clearly haven't watched his game enough to realize that whether its next year, the year after, or the year after that.
I never said he's a bust, you're misconstruing my comment to fit your narrative. All I said was you can't discount what happened last season where he had a major attitude problem and under performed. He's an extremely talented player, nobody has ever disputed that, but to say he's only available in a deal to obtain a top 10 center in the league is laughable
with the way kravtsov is playing.. we ain't trading him unless were getting a barkov esc type player
Kravstov has not been playing well. He had one great month in KHL just before the draft and has nothing else on his resume that suggests he is a top prospect. In all my years of watching hockey, I have never seen evaluators walk back their views on a prospect as much as they have with Kravstov. Right now, hard to imagine him playing in NHL.
ah yes the classic he's a bust because he didn't light it up as every 19 year old should. Simply put it he's not available so no need to get salty and just move on to a dif proposal. The kid will be a top 6 guy and you clearly haven't watched his game enough to realize that whether its next year, the year after, or the year after that.
My including Kravtsov in the trade was not my calling him a bust or even thinking that at all. It was purely because I felt that he could be expendable as we have 4 really solid wingers for the future. I do not doubt his talent at all, and his recent performances showcase how good he can be in the future. He is not someone I want to get rid of by any means. My thought was less that he wasn't good, and more that Cirelli's two-way game could really help our team going forward, and as a result of our abundance of talent, Kravtsov could potentially have ended up in a trade.
My including Kravtsov in the trade was not my calling him a bust or even thinking that at all. It was purely because I felt that he could be expendable as we have 4 really solid wingers for the future. I do not doubt his talent at all, and his recent performances showcase how good he can be in the future. He is not someone I want to get rid of by any means. My thought was less that he wasn't good, and more that Cirelli's two-way game could really help our team going forward, and as a result of our abundance of talent, Kravtsov could potentially have ended up in a trade.
Dw wasn’t responding to you your points make sense but the rangers would rather have this
Panarin, laf, kreids as lw
And kakko and kravtsov as there top two rw
Blues decline. We don't need spare parts for Dunn.
Robertson is on track to be a top 4 d man. Hajek is a solid depth guy rn who will get better, has struggled since his injury last season. And this is assuming the blues resign Pietrangelo and in effect they wont be able to afford Dunn. This is likely one of the better offers you will receive for a RFA's Rights, you are receiving a mid to higher end prospect and a mediocre prospect with nhl potential and a second and third rounder for someone you can't pay.
I like all these moves except maybe the Dunn trade, feel like the LHD prospects could be just as good in a few years and Miller even better. I definitely agree with moving Trouba and Tony soon, which is good reason for the Dunn trade but it could go either way I guess. I think a Kreider trade would be more helpful than a Chytil trade if Chytil would sign somewhere in the $2-$4mil to play as the 3LW behind Panarin and Laf as opposed to Kreider making 6.5 as an aging 3rd liner that is known for speed and strength more than anything.
I like all these moves except maybe the Dunn trade, feel like the LHD prospects could be just as good in a few years and Miller even better. I definitely agree with moving Trouba and Tony soon, which is good reason for the Dunn trade but it could go either way I guess. I think a Kreider trade would be more helpful than a Chytil trade if Chytil would sign somewhere in the $2-$4mil to play as the 3LW behind Panarin and Laf as opposed to Kreider making 6.5 as an aging 3rd liner that is known for speed and strength more than anything.
The reason i think the dunn trade is so important is we lack a real top pairing and we are really week at LHD. I think his two way game will really help us and I'd argue that he opens our window to contend a little earlier as he is an established player with playoff experience. While trading kreider definitely saves more money, I think keeping him is important. He is a very important player off the ice (many even think he could be named the next captain) he also provides a degree of physicality and intensity that really help to boost the teams energy and tempo. The reason I consider trading chytil is while he has showed flashes where he has been brilliant, he has struggled to find consistency. (I know he is still very young). While he is definitely very talented, I feel that he may not amount to the player some are projecting of him. I just think that a more gritty and defensive 3C would make us a much better team and help balance out the offensive superpower that will be our top 6.
Instead of trading him, a 2 year bridge deal could be really helpful as we get to see more from him and not tie up anymore cap longterm.
The reason i think the dunn trade is so important is we lack a real top pairing and we are really week at LHD. I think his two way game will really help us and I'd argue that he opens our window to contend a little earlier as he is an established player with playoff experience. While trading kreider definitely saves more money, I think keeping him is important. He is a very important player off the ice (many even think he could be named the next captain) he also provides a degree of physicality and intensity that really help to boost the teams energy and tempo. The reason I consider trading chytil is while he has showed flashes where he has been brilliant, he has struggled to find consistency. (I know he is still very young). While he is definitely very talented, I feel that he may not amount to the player some are projecting of him. I just think that a more gritty and defensive 3C would make us a much better team and help balance out the offensive superpower that will be our top 6.
Instead of trading him, a 2 year bridge deal could be really helpful as we get to see more from him and not tie up anymore cap longterm.
I think in the future the Lindgren-Fox pairing could become the top pairing as Lindgren gets more experience and rounds out defensively. Gritty defensemen like him are so valuable in the playoffs (Mac/Cernak, Pelech/Greene, Lindell, etc.) and obviously Fox will be Fox. I think of pairings like Lindell-Klingberg (hopefully Fox will be better defensively than Klingberg) and Pelech-Fox. Having K'Andre coming up is a top 2/top 4 talent that would probably end up on the second pair. That would leave Dunn on the bottom pair kinda like Sergachev for the Lightning, which would be great so that we could roll 3 pairings with confidence but would probably lead to obvious cap problems. Based on his advanced stats Dunn could probably be a top-pair guy but a lot of Blues fans weren't happy with him in the playoffs this year, so having Lindgren, Miller, and Robertson/Jones/Hajek/Reunanen/draft pick on the left depending on who develops the best could be cheaper and still super deep. Kreider is definitely super important for us on and off the ice but the contract is just an issue. I hate to say it but holding on to him for a long time would just sink his value as he gets older and his role diminishes behind Kakko and Laf. That contract could become immovable very quickly and having him on for that salary and term could cause issues signing Laf off his rookie and extending guys like Fox, Igor, etc. if we could only bridge some of them. Chytil has looked better on the wing so I could feel like he could be a perfect two-way 3LW alongside Copp and Gauthier here. If Kreider had less term and maybe a little less money I would 100% agree with you but we have him on a top 6 contract for 7 years when he's probably only going to be top 6 on this team for another year, which Gorton obviously wouldn't have known when he extended him.
I think in the future the Lindgren-Fox pairing could become the top pairing as Lindgren gets more experience and rounds out defensively. Gritty defensemen like him are so valuable in the playoffs (Mac/Cernak, Pelech/Greene, Lindell, etc.) and obviously Fox will be Fox. I think of pairings like Lindell-Klingberg (hopefully Fox will be better defensively than Klingberg) and Pelech-Fox. Having K'Andre coming up is a top 2/top 4 talent that would probably end up on the second pair. That would leave Dunn on the bottom pair kinda like Sergachev for the Lightning, which would be great so that we could roll 3 pairings with confidence but would probably lead to obvious cap problems. Based on his advanced stats Dunn could probably be a top-pair guy but a lot of Blues fans weren't happy with him in the playoffs this year, so having Lindgren, Miller, and Robertson/Jones/Hajek/Reunanen/draft pick on the left depending on who develops the best could be cheaper and still super deep. Kreider is definitely super important for us on and off the ice but the contract is just an issue. I hate to say it but holding on to him for a long time would just sink his value as he gets older and his role diminishes behind Kakko and Laf. That contract could become immovable very quickly and having him on for that salary and term could cause issues signing Laf off his rookie and extending guys like Fox, Igor, etc. if we could only bridge some of them. Chytil has looked better on the wing so I could feel like he could be a perfect two-way 3LW alongside Copp and Gauthier here. If Kreider had less term and maybe a little less money I would 100% agree with you but we have him on a top 6 contract for 7 years when he's probably only going to be top 6 on this team for another year, which Gorton obviously wouldn't have known when he extended him.
I agree with you point about lindgren. He is incredible. I think he might be better suited as a shutdown second pair guy as he contributes very little offensively. I think that dunn provides a much better 2 way game. And if we end up with a d core of fox, dunn, lindgren, miller, lundkvist, and someone else, it is very possible we dont even have like a first second and third pairing. We could see something like you mentioned where tampa spreads their top guys around to always have a top guy on the ice.
With Kreider, I don't see us trading him as he is so important to the team and the organization committed to him by signing him to this deal. And depending on how the cap evolves and what other deals look like, it could work to keep him as a third liner and power play guy. And with chytil, to be honest, I think he will be a player we want to keep for that role but will end up being someone we can't afford. Kind of like when we traded Hagelin. While we want him as a third line winger and want to pay him that way, it is very possible that another team pays him the money a top 6 forward would make as this is the role they see him taking.
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