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Tanevs

Created by: TySmith4Norris
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 22, 2020
Published: Sep. 22, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$700,000
2$700,000
2$700,000
2$700,000
2$1,000,000
1$2,750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$700,000
5$4,500,000
2$3,000,000
Trades
1.
2.
PIT
  1. 2020 2nd round pick (WSH)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
2021
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the ANA
2022
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,615,175$0$850,000$1,884,825

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$9,500,000$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,940,000$2,940,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$3,125,000$3,125,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,025,175$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,250,000$1,250,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,150,000$1,150,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
UFA - 1
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 4
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$700,000$700,000
RW, C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$700,000$700,000
RD
UFA - 1

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Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:30 p.m.
#1
All-Team Pylon
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dEtRoIt sAyS nO, mUrRaY iS wOrTh a SeCoNd

If you're going to say one of the above, name a goalie similar to Murray that got less than a second on his own as an RFA or explain how Jack Johnson hurts Detroit when his term is the same as Abdelkader's

Ryan for Horny makes sense if Calgary thinks they can win a cup in the next two years, he fits their play style like a glove and their main need for a right shot RW. Questionable in the third year but for now he's a 2RW

If you think Horny is a cap dump don't waste your time typing
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:35 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
dEtRoIt sAyS nO, mUrRaY iS wOrTh a SeCoNd

If you're going to say one of the above, name a goalie similar to Murray that got less than a second on his own as an RFA or explain how Jack Johnson hurts Detroit when his term is the same as Abdelkader's

Ryan for Horny makes sense if Calgary thinks they can win a cup in the next two years, he fits their play style like a glove and their main need for a right shot RW. Questionable in the third year but for now he's a 2RW

If you think Horny is a cap dump don't waste your time typing


Murray isn't the issue with that trade, my man lol. It's expecting a 2nd while them taking JJ back. Not even any retention.

I think mix up the difference between teams wanting Hornqvist and teams being able to take him. I like Hornqvist. I think he's no longer a proper fit for how the Pens play, but I think he can still be a valuable player to another team, but his contract is problematic given his age and how many games you're likely to get out of him. They wouldn't have to add a 1st or top prospect to move him, but they're going to have to sweeten the deal in some way whether it's retention, a pick or mid-level prospect.
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:35 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
dEtRoIt sAyS nO, mUrRaY iS wOrTh a SeCoNd

If you're going to say one of the above, name a goalie similar to Murray that got less than a second on his own as an RFA or explain how Jack Johnson hurts Detroit when his term is the same as Abdelkader's

Ryan for Horny makes sense if Calgary thinks they can win a cup in the next two years, he fits their play style like a glove and their main need for a right shot RW. Questionable in the third year but for now he's a 2RW

If you think Horny is a cap dump don't waste your time typing


There is so much you dont understand.
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:36 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Murray isn't the issue with that trade, my man lol. It's expecting a 2nd while them taking JJ back. Not even any retention.

I think mix up the difference between teams wanting Hornqvist and teams being able to take him. I like Hornqvist. I think he's no longer a proper fit for how the Pens play, but I think he can still be a valuable player to another team, but his contract is problematic given his age and how many games you're likely to get out of him. They wouldn't have to add a 1st or top prospect to move him, but they're going to have to sweeten the deal in some way whether it's retention, a pick or mid-level prospect.


Calgary's cap situation can fit in Horny without any trouble

the ask for Murray on his own is a 1st, and JJ's buyout doesn't warrant a serious cost to move
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:36 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: redw1n9s
There is so much you dont understand.


enlighten me
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:37 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
dEtRoIt sAyS nO, mUrRaY iS wOrTh a SeCoNd

If you're going to say one of the above, name a goalie similar to Murray that got less than a second on his own as an RFA or explain how Jack Johnson hurts Detroit when his term is the same as Abdelkader's

Ryan for Horny makes sense if Calgary thinks they can win a cup in the next two years, he fits their play style like a glove and their main need for a right shot RW. Questionable in the third year but for now he's a 2RW

If you think Horny is a cap dump don't waste your time typing


Just call out Buffbry by name next time lol. Though I agree with each of these takes 110%
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:38 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Steinthekid
Just call out Buffbry by name next time lol. Though I agree with each of these takes 110%


there's more than a couple that feel the need to present those takes as the truth with zero backing
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:43 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
there's more than a couple that feel the need to present those takes as the truth with zero backing


Fair enough I just notice him more than others on anything that involves the red wings.
Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:57 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
Calgary's cap situation can fit in Horny without any trouble

the ask for Murray on his own is a 1st, and JJ's buyout doesn't warrant a serious cost to move


You definitely confuse what "ask" means. JR can ask for a first all day long, but that doesn't mean he's going to get it and it's likely he doesn't. He's not going to come right out and say, "Ehh, I don't need much, maybe a 2nd or a 3rd, whatever you want." He's going to ask the biggest return first. It's call negotiating.

Also, bumping down a 1st to a 2nd because they'd be taking JJ back is still not early enough. That's a bad contract for an even worse players. If the Pens move JJ the PENS are the team that would likely have to send a 1st back or some other form a compensation to sweeten that deal. Moving from a 1st to a 2nd doesn't make that wash. You'd basically have to ask for a 4th or 5th if you want them to take JJ along with Murray instead of a 2nd.

As far as Hornqvist goes, just because CGY has the space doesn't mean they necessarily want to spend it that way. Hornqvist can definitely still help to any team he goes to, but you're probably only getting around 60/65 games out of him age and his vs. how he plays, it's only going to get worse, so teams don't want to spend $5.3M for three year more years on that. You're either going have to do one of three things:

1) Retain salary
2) Add a desirable pick or prospect
3) Take back a not-so-great contract, but hopefully one from a player who fits the Pens a little better.
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 2:57 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
Calgary's cap situation can fit in Horny without any trouble

the ask for Murray on his own is a 1st, and JJ's buyout doesn't warrant a serious cost to move

Just because the ask is a first doesn’t mean you’d get a first. Do you walk into a car dealership and pay MSRP?
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:01 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
You definitely confuse what "ask" means. JR can ask for a first all day long, but that doesn't mean he's going to get it and it's likely he doesn't. He's not going to come right out and say, "Ehh, I don't need much, maybe a 2nd or a 3rd, whatever you want." He's going to ask the biggest return first. It's call negotiating.

Also, bumping down a 1st to a 2nd because they'd be taking JJ back is still not early enough. That's a bad contract for an even worse players. If the Pens move JJ the PENS are the team that would likely have to send a 1st back or some other form a compensation to sweeten that deal. Moving from a 1st to a 2nd doesn't make that wash. You'd basically have to ask for a 4th or 5th if you want them to take JJ along with Murray instead of a 2nd.

As far as Hornqvist goes, just because CGY has the space doesn't mean they necessarily want to spend it that way. Hornqvist can definitely be help to any team goes to, you're probably only getting around 60/65 games out of him and his vs. how he plays, it's only going to get worse, so teams don't want to spend $5.3M for three year more years on that. You're either going have to do one of three things:

1) Retain salary
2) Add a desirable pick or prospect
3) Take back a not-so-great contract, but hopefully one from a player who fits the Pens a little better.


wow thanks for explaining negotiation to me, I had no idea

Murray's true value is probably around 2 seconds based off of past trades
Think JJ costs a second to dump, based off of past trades
Therefore you end up with Murray + JJ for a second

You definitely don't have to retain or add value to move Horny, he's a 2RW on half the teams in the league and he's played on a 50 point pace when he's healthy for years consistently

Ryan back makes sense for both sides, paying him 3M to be a 4C is undesirable for Calgary
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:01 p.m.
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Quoting: BStinson
Just because the ask is a first doesn’t mean you’d get a first. Do you walk into a car dealership and pay MSRP?


woah thanks for explaining that to me

Murray's value is a second plus something substantial

In that trade the something substantial is taking on JJ
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:03 p.m.
#13
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Wings pass
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:06 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
wow thanks for explaining negotiation to me, I had no idea

Murray's true value is probably around 2 seconds based off of past trades
Think JJ costs a second to dump, based off of past trades
Therefore you end up with Murray + JJ for a second

You definitely don't have to retain or add value to move Horny, he's a 2RW on half the teams in the league and he's played on a 50 point pace when he's healthy for years consistently

Ryan back makes sense for both sides, paying him 3M to be a 4C is undesirable for Calgary


Again, Taking a 2nd for both Murray and JJ because YOU THINK it would cost a 2nd to get rid of JJ doesn't wash. This is not a case of two negatives equalling a positive. Also, I'm not sure what precedent you're using to say taking JJ equates to adding a 2nd round pick. I promise you that it wouldn't work. If the Pens were a crap team and that 2nd round pick was a very early 2nd round pick? MAYBE, but still probably not.
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:07 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Again, Taking a 2nd for both Murray and JJ because it would YOU THINK it would cost a 2nd to get rid of JJ doesn't wash. This is not a case of two negatives equalling a positive. Also, I'm not sure what precedent you're using to say taking JJ equates to adding a 2nd round pick. I promise you that it wouldn't work. If the Pens were a crap team and that 2nd round pick was a very early 2nd round pick? MAYBE, but still probably not.


I mean, I'm basing that off of prior cap dump trades

What are you basing your opinion off of?
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:09 p.m.
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
I mean, I'm basing that off of prior cap dump trades

What are you basing your opinion off of?


Show me those cap dump trades.
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:10 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Show me those cap dump trades.


so I do all of the work and you just say no I disagree lol

how about you find a player making <4M a year with <4 years of term left that cost more than a 2nd to dump
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:10 p.m.
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It's gonna be hilarious when Pens get like a 5th rd pick + B prospect for Murray
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:12 p.m.
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Quoting: Drw4209
It's gonna be hilarious when Pens get like a 5th rd pick + B prospect for Murray


lol bet, they already turned down Larsson
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:14 p.m.
#20
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Matt Murray is the single most intriguing player in the entire NHL this off season. Worst goalie market I've ever seen in my entire life and it's NOT getting any easier with the way Greiss and Khudobin played in the playoffs AND MAF now supposedly NEEDING a new home.
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Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:19 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: exo2769
Matt Murray is the single most intriguing player in the entire NHL this off season. Worst goalie market I've ever seen in my entire life and it's NOT getting any easier with the way Greiss and Khudobin played in the playoffs AND MAF now supposedly NEEDING a new home.


Murray's return is going to take a serious hit because of everything. Teams will opt for the cheaper one/two year deals until things return to normal. The Pens would be wise to do a pre-negotiated sign-and-trade. Murray would be wise to take a one or two year bridge deal, maybe around $4M then circle back when the market is better.
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:21 p.m.
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
so I do all of the work and you just say no I disagree lol

how about you find a player making <4M a year with <4 years of term left that cost more than a 2nd to dump


Yes, you do all the work. You're the one making the original claim.

The problem with your argument is you think that all things are equal. Because of the flat cap teams have little space and trying to move a bad contract in this market will not be easy for any team regardless of what you're giving them.
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:24 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Yes, you do all the work. You're the one making the original claim.

The problem with your argument is you think that all things are equal. Because of the flat cap teams have little space and trying to move a bad contract in this market will not be easy for any team regardless of what you're giving them.


I mean if you're unwilling to do any work to back your opinion then I'm not going to do any work to reply

You think I'm wrong, show me why

Find a similar goalie that got less or a similar cap dump that cost more

If you're right, I'm sure there are examples
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:34 p.m.
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
woah thanks for explaining that to me

Murray's value is a second plus something substantial

In that trade the something substantial is taking on JJ

Since JJ is a below replacement level player and is owed 8.25M in cash and 9.75M total cap over 3 years wouldn’t that be worth the first round pick (initial ask)? My comp is Marleau was 4M cash and 6.25M dead cap space so why is Detroit adding a second instead of FC or late round pick?

Quoting: Marino4Norris
so I do all of the work and you just say no I disagree lol

how about you find a player making <4M a year with <4 years of term left that cost more than a 2nd to dump

This a bit ironic coming from you and our conversation about goalie analytics yesterday.
Sep. 22, 2020 at 3:35 p.m.
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Quoting: Marino4Norris
I mean if you're unwilling to do any work to back your opinion then I'm not going to do any work to reply

You think I'm wrong, show me why

Find a similar goalie that got less or a similar cap dump that cost more

If you're right, I'm sure there are examples


I gave a pretty clear explanation right there. This market is not like all markets and you're not factoring it in.
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