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Overhaul so tell me why you hate my trades

Created by: MelonVK
Team: 2020-21 Arizona Coyotes
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 5, 2020
Published: Oct. 5, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
The idea is to take a step back and hopefully two steps forward in the next year or two. The trades I'm the least sure about are the CBJ and NYR ones. I think the NYR deal is a straight upgrade on the Staal deal, where you sure do downgrade a round in the draft, but at the same time shed a useless player for a cheaper alternative who's still elite defensively.
As for CBJ I think they want to both shed some salary, some LHD (and not Gavrikov or Werenski ofc) and also get somebody able to play 2C in there. Stepan probably has his best years behind him, but is still servicable as a middle 6 C. If you, again, go after the evaluation of a 5.5m+ salary dump from NYR's Staal trade, I think CBJ is getting some value back without having a similar pick to give up. I could toss in some prospect coming their way, but they don't really need depth as much as they need top end talent, and it's likely that some other teams such as Buffalo, maybe Washington or Calgary etc. could offer the picks CBJ wants for some of those depth players.
It's funny seeing all these OEL to Boston type of trades. Everything from 500k retained for 6-7 years or whatever it is, to a 2nd and a cap dump coming back. I don't think OEL is elite anymore, I wouldn't personally buy on him, but if it happens its probably along these lines - a 1st, a good LHD prospect, a cap dump, and a body most Bruins fans can't agree on whether he's worth a 2nd round pick or if you pay a late rounder to get rid of him. I think he has some value; offsetting the Moore dump at best.
I've seen many Toronto supporters make the trade below - that doesn't have to mean anything cause there's literally thousands of them on here, but you get the idea, something along those lines.
If the CBJ trade goes through I'd make this trade with Wpg. Maybe they don't accept, but I suspect they do. Their best course of action would probably be to trade with CBJ straight up, but I'm the dictator of this AGM, and well, they don't.
No Chicago trade and I must admit it feels weird. Maybe they'll let go of Saad for Kessel? Idk, that's for another time.
I know it's hard but please try to focus on the idea of the trades rather than a 7th or 4th needing to go either way.

You know the drill, tell me why your teams players are the best in the world while you're struggling for a playoff spot in this extended format, and why you want my family to catch diseases and which circle of hell you wish I end up in, down below.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,150,000
2$2,000,000
2$1,750,000
2$900,000
3$3,350,000
Trades
1.
ARI
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. 2020 2nd round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Kuemper, Darcy
  2. 2020 4th round pick (ARI)
2.
CBJ
  1. Stepan, Derek ($2,000,000 retained)
  2. 2021 4th round pick (ARI)
3.
ARI
  1. Roslovic, Jack [RFA Rights]
4.
5.
ARI
  1. 2020 4th round pick (SJS)
CGY
  1. 2020 7th round pick (ARI)
Additional Details:
Hall, Taylor. Exclusive negotiation rights.
6.
ARI
  1. Smith, Brendan
  2. 2020 1st round pick (CAR)
NYR
  1. Hjalmarsson, Niklas ($2,500,000 retained)
  2. 2020 2nd round pick (ARI)
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
2021
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
2022
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
Logo of the ARI
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$80,379,209$196,951$1,750,000$1,120,791
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$775,000$775,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$5,850,000$5,850,000
RW, C
UFA - 6
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$7,150,000$7,150,000
LW, RW
UFA - 8
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$1,750,000$2M)
C, LW
RFA - 2
$3,350,000$3,350,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Boston Bruins
$1,498,925$1,498,925
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$6,800,000$6,800,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,533,333$1,533,333
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,150,000$1,150,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$5,475,000$5,475,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$3,937,500$3,937,500
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,250,000$4,250,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,750,000$1,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$800,000$800,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Rangers
$4,350,000$4,350,000
LD/RD, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$5,850,000$5,850,000
C, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$5,275,000$5,275,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$735,000$735,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Boston Bruins
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LD
UFA - 3

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Oct. 5, 2020 at 3:56 p.m.
#1
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Not a bad offer on Columbus! Also, Dubinsky is LTIRetired, and his contract is fully insured, so zero cash cost to ownership for the Yotes. But if the Jets are willing to move Roslovic for Murray, I think we do that ourselves and bring the hometown boy in to be our 2C of the future.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:00 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: benjgc
Not a bad offer on Columbus! Also, Dubinsky is LTIRetired, and his contract is fully insured, so zero cash cost to ownership for the Yotes. But if the Jets are willing to move Roslovic for Murray, I think we do that ourselves and bring the hometown boy in to be our 2C of the future.


Yeah that's what I've landed on. I guess you can send some other player? Wennberg might be under contract for too long, not sure about Foligno's status? Is his character worth 5m? I just think Stepan is a good fit for CBJ while they have a lot of bodies, especially wingers they could move the other way or for picks etc.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:03 p.m.
#3
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what would it cost the bruins extra to get OEL retained at 1.5m?
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:06 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: MelonVK
Yeah that's what I've landed on. I guess you can send some other player? Wennberg might be under contract for too long, not sure about Foligno's status? Is his character worth 5m? I just think Stepan is a good fit for CBJ while they have a lot of bodies, especially wingers they could move the other way or for picks etc.


Wennberg seems like a good fit for the Yotes, who face an uncertain next few years; they can roll the dice and see if he regains his form with a change of scenery, which I think he would. Wennberg + Dubinsky for Stepan (with or without $ retained) and a 3rd or 4th seems like it could have traction. Instead of Wennberg or Murray, how about Nutivaara or Scott Harrington, since Hjalmarsson won't waive his NMC, and thus saves you from Brendan Smith?
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:10 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: hanson493
what would it cost the bruins extra to get OEL retained at 1.5m?


You can't retain 1.5m over 7 years. Like it's not feasible. The second best thing is taking on Moore, and that's already done. But there's no way any franchise accepts a 1.5m lower cap ceiling for over half a decade.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:13 p.m.
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Quoting: benjgc
Wennberg seems like a good fit for the Yotes, who face an uncertain next few years; they can roll the dice and see if he regains his form with a change of scenery, which I think he would. Wennberg + Dubinsky for Stepan (with or without $ retained) and a 3rd or 4th seems like it could have traction. Instead of Wennberg or Murray, how about Nutivaara or Scott Harrington, since Hjalmarsson won't waive his NMC, and thus saves you from Brendan Smith?


I'm actually very sure Hjalmarsson would waive to go play for the Rangers. Not only do I think almost any player would, but especially with where they are now. If he's still there the yotes don't need a LHD anyways - then you might as well go for one of CBJ's depth forwards. I think Nutivaara and Harrington are decent enough players in their own right to fit in Wpg, NYR or Boston who are all a bit short on LHD. The idea behind most of these trades are hockey-fit for the other team, and trade value for Arizona.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:21 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: MelonVK
I'm actually very sure Hjalmarsson would waive to go play for the Rangers. Not only do I think almost any player would, but especially with where they are now. If he's still there the yotes don't need a LHD anyways - then you might as well go for one of CBJ's depth forwards. I think Nutivaara and Harrington are decent enough players in their own right to fit in Wpg, NYR or Boston who are all a bit short on LHD. The idea behind most of these trades are hockey-fit for the other team, and trade value for Arizona.


Not saying you're crazy, but hasn't Hjalmarsson said he wants to stay because of his family? Unless he drastically changes his mind, I can't see it happening.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:28 p.m.
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Quoting: MelonVK
You can't retain 1.5m over 7 years. Like it's not feasible. The second best thing is taking on Moore, and that's already done. But there's no way any franchise accepts a 1.5m lower cap ceiling for over half a decade.


toronto and phil kessel.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:28 p.m.
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Quoting: benjgc
Not saying you're crazy, but hasn't Hjalmarsson said he wants to stay because of his family? Unless he drastically changes his mind, I can't see it happening.


I might be wrong - but I think NYR is not only maybe the most highly regarded franchise in terms of where players want to play, but also it's just across the pond from Sweden, rather than flying family out to Arizona. But I might be reading too much into it.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:29 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
toronto and phil kessel.


Do you think they're enjoying themselves or scrambling for cap space? Like sending Marleau for a 1st rounder. It's another 1st++
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:29 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: hanson493
toronto and phil kessel.


Quoting: MelonVK
You can't retain 1.5m over 7 years. Like it's not feasible. The second best thing is taking on Moore, and that's already done. But there's no way any franchise accepts a 1.5m lower cap ceiling for over half a decade.


but yeah honestly thats not a terrible package, i would probably do that as bruins send back 4.1m in cap and get a 1 LD for basically vaak and a late first. Ritchie is a 4th liner here so i would love that deal as a bruins fan.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:38 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: MelonVK
Do you think they're enjoying themselves or scrambling for cap space? Like sending Marleau for a 1st rounder. It's another 1st++


i mean 1.5m isnt really that much... its similar to a buyout on a bad contract for 3+ years. and at 1.5m i dont think it breaks any backs contract wise. its not the same situation as marleau at all btw. 6m up front vs 10.5m spread out.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:38 p.m.
#13
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For the Jets we only trade Roslovic if we keep Laine, so I'm ok with that move, but it maybe makes more sense to deal with Columbus since he's actually from there and they'd be getting their hometown player that they could slot into the top 6.

Ryan Murray is just so injury prone and a UFA in a year so although he somewhat fits what we'd be looking for, I wouldn't be looking to give up a middle 6 roster player that is still improving for a D rental.

With JMO, Samberg and Heinola on the left side long term, that's all Murray would be.
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Oct. 5, 2020 at 4:52 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: jimmyjets
For the Jets we only trade Roslovic if we keep Laine, so I'm ok with that move, but it maybe makes more sense to deal with Columbus since he's actually from there and they'd be getting their hometown player that they could slot into the top 6.

Ryan Murray is just so injury prone and a UFA in a year so although he somewhat fits what we'd be looking for, I wouldn't be looking to give up a middle 6 roster player that is still improving for a D rental.

With JMO, Samberg and Heinola on the left side long term, that's all Murray would be.


What about Roslovic for Nutivaara? Multiple years of term, low cost, can play either side, and won't embarrass you on 2nd pair.

EDIT: or David Savard, perhaps, though he'd command the largest return of the three, even as a rental.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 5:08 p.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
i mean 1.5m isnt really that much... its similar to a buyout on a bad contract for 3+ years. and at 1.5m i dont think it breaks any backs contract wise. its not the same situation as marleau at all btw. 6m up front vs 10.5m spread out.


6m for one year you can plan around, 1.5 over 7 just slowly hurts you
Oct. 5, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
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Quoting: MelonVK
6m for one year you can plan around, 1.5 over 7 just slowly hurts you


i would disagree. 6m is a top 6 forward or a top 4 dman. 1.5m is a depth piece thats maybe got some upside. ie nick ritchie.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 5:15 p.m.
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Quoting: jimmyjets
For the Jets we only trade Roslovic if we keep Laine, so I'm ok with that move, but it maybe makes more sense to deal with Columbus since he's actually from there and they'd be getting their hometown player that they could slot into the top 6.

Ryan Murray is just so injury prone and a UFA in a year so although he somewhat fits what we'd be looking for, I wouldn't be looking to give up a middle 6 roster player that is still improving for a D rental.

With JMO, Samberg and Heinola on the left side long term, that's all Murray would be.


Give it two years and Heinola is the #1D on that team. I think a lot of people confuse a lot of what I do on this website as what "I think is fair trade value", rather than prepositions of "what *could* happen", "what I'd like to see teams attempt", or "how do people feel about this unexplored take". I think Roslovic is and will be better than any return Wpg can get for him. I made a Wpg ACGM not long ago where I took Gavrikov in return, cause it's the only CBJ D that intrigues me enough from a Wpg standpoint. With that said a lot of GM's are dumb in one or multiple ways. When I'm 'rebuilding' a team, and take on multiple bad contracts along with Höglander from Vancouver, I don't do it because I would give him up along with another two years of Eriksson, I do it cause Benning just might. I think your feedback is valuable, and I even state in the description I think this move makes the most sense between Wpg and CBJ. But with that said, they both have pieces available in trades, but neither are making a move, so here's how I'd try to go about this as Arizona.
Oct. 5, 2020 at 5:15 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: hanson493
i would disagree. 6m is a top 6 forward or a top 4 dman. 1.5m is a depth piece thats maybe got some upside. ie nick ritchie.


Not if that 1.5m is the reason you can sign a 6m instead of a 7.5m player to a multi-year deal.
Oct. 6, 2020 at 8:32 a.m.
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Quoting: MelonVK
Not if that 1.5m is the reason you can sign a 6m instead of a 7.5m player to a multi-year deal.


but at that point wouldnt you just move a depth player making that to sign the 7.5m player? or just have less contracts up in the nhl? theres plenty of workarounds with cap. I would not say the leafs having kessels cap hit on their books for the last few years have hindered their ability to sign players.
Oct. 6, 2020 at 8:57 a.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
but at that point wouldnt you just move a depth player making that to sign the 7.5m player? or just have less contracts up in the nhl? theres plenty of workarounds with cap. I would not say the leafs having kessels cap hit on their books for the last few years have hindered their ability to sign players.


It's just so funny to me how you talk about how easy it is, and yet you don't move that depth player yourself? Like everything you're arguing right now is just as much of an argument in my favor
Oct. 6, 2020 at 9:06 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: MelonVK
It's just so funny to me how you talk about how easy it is, and yet you don't move that depth player yourself? Like everything you're arguing right now is just as much of an argument in my favor


we are moving the depth players in the trade scenario you posted... but you're also arguing like OEL is worth 8.25m when his play doesn't suggest that he is. vs a hypothetical player that might actually be worth the 7.5m in you're next scenario. Its completely different. Would you pay for 7.5m of marc andre-fleury? or would you want him retained on. would you trade away sven baertschi to be able to sign markstrom? you see the difference right?
Oct. 6, 2020 at 10:05 a.m.
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Quoting: hanson493
we are moving the depth players in the trade scenario you posted... but you're also arguing like OEL is worth 8.25m when his play doesn't suggest that he is. vs a hypothetical player that might actually be worth the 7.5m in you're next scenario. Its completely different. Would you pay for 7.5m of marc andre-fleury? or would you want him retained on. would you trade away sven baertschi to be able to sign markstrom? you see the difference right?


I have never argued he's worth 8.25m. I'm a Bruins fan. I wouldn't trade for him at this stage in his career. With that said, someone will pay that 8.25, and it actually makes a big difference for the team not to retain.

If I'm LAK, I can take on a year of Bärtschi for a 3rd and 4th or something - I know I won't be competing in that short of a period, and even if I do I didn't plan for it.
What I can't do is take on 1.5m over 7 years - cause I want to compete at some point in those 7 years, even if I move other pieces I have just crippled my competing years.

How is this hard to follow?
Oct. 6, 2020 at 10:12 a.m.
#23
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Quoting: MelonVK
I have never argued he's worth 8.25m. I'm a Bruins fan. I wouldn't trade for him at this stage in his career. With that said, someone will pay that 8.25, and it actually makes a big difference for the team not to retain.

If I'm LAK, I can take on a year of Bärtschi for a 3rd and 4th or something - I know I won't be competing in that short of a period, and even if I do I didn't plan for it.
What I can't do is take on 1.5m over 7 years - cause I want to compete at some point in those 7 years, even if I move other pieces I have just crippled my competing years.

How is this hard to follow?


Its not but OEL gave arizona 2 options to go to... Vancouver and Boston. Thats it. IF both teams want retention. Arizona either keeps OEL, something i dont think they want to do especially where they asked him to open his team list up and he flat out refused. or Arizona deals OEL with retention. Now, will one team say screw it and pony up sure that could happen where either boston or vancouver says theyll take his whole contract. But Arizona has 2.5m cap room and no draft picks. they would be sacrificing 2-3 good roster players by not retaining on OEL and keeping him.
 
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