Forums/Armchair-GM

Advice on how to sell your cap dump

Created by: NHLfan10506
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 16, 2020
Published: Oct. 16, 2020
Team: 2020-21 New Jersey Devils
Team Explanation
I am only speaking on behalf of myself, but others with similar experience may join in.

Teams like DET, OTT, NJD often get cap dump trades (pretty much only cap dumps). Some are realistic and provide benefits for both sides. Most do not. Here is what I have found works and doesn't work. Thought I'd share...

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FIRST, here are three things you should NEVER to say when dumping a contract:

1. He is a veteran to help your young guys
2. The cash isn't as bad as the AAV
3. He would be a starter on your team

SECOND, know what you are selling. It is not a useful veteran...it is THE INCENTIVE to take that veteran. It's the pick or a prospect (that just happens to have someone else's contract attached). The rebuilding team won't care if he scores 20, or if he cannot tie his own skates. To the other team, they only want the incentive. That is what you are selling.

THIRD, know the market in which you are selling. Even pre-covid, dumping Backes and Marleau returned 1st round picks. Rounding a 5th rounder up to a 4th rounder doesn't move the needle on a camp dump.

FOURTH, sell from strength and now from weakness Don't say, "my team is in cap hell".... instead ,say "we are flush with winger prospects and 2nd round picks and we can use them to create cap space".

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These are not full-proof and the author cannot guarantee anything. But hopefully, these offers will become a bit more palatable.

Best of luck and...
Happy dumping
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Blackwood, Mackenzie2$3,000,000
Bratt, Jesper2$3,000,000
Merkley, Nick2$800,000
Trades
1.
NJD
  1. Eriksson, Loui
  2. 2021 1st round pick (VAN)
  3. 2022 1st round pick (VAN)
VAN
    2.
    NJD
    1. Byron, Paul
    2. 2021 1st round pick (MTL)
    MTL
      3.
      NJD
      1. Steen, Alexander
      2. 2021 1st round pick (STL)
      STL
        Buyouts
        • Cory Schneider: $2,000,000
        • Mike Cammalleri: $1,666,667
        Retained Salary Transactions
        • Travis Zajac: $2,875,000 (50%)
        • Kyle Palmieri: $2,325,000 (50%)
        • Will Butcher: $910,569 (24%)
        Recapture Fees
        • Ilya Kovalchuk: $250,000
        DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
        2021
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the VAN
        Logo of the MTL
        Logo of the STL
        Logo of the NYI
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the ARI
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the BUF
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the ARI
        2022
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the VAN
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the CBJ
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        2023
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        Logo of the NJD
        ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
        24$81,500,000$80,019,164$0$3,915,000$1,480,836
        Left WingCenterRight Wing
        Logo of the NJD
        Gusev, Nikita
        $4,500,000
        RW, LW
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Hischier, Nico
        $7,250,000
        C
        UFA - 7
        Logo of the NJD
        Palmieri, Kyle
        $2,325,000
        RW, LW
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Gusev, Nikita
        $1,000,000
        RW, LW
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Hughes, Jack
        $925,000
        C
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Bratt, Jesper
        $3,000,000
        RW, LW
        RFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Johnsson, Andreas
        $3,400,000
        LW, RW
        UFA - 3
        Logo of the NJD
        Zacha, Pavel
        $2,250,000
        LW, C
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Bastian, Nathan
        $714,166
        RW, C
        RFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Boqvist, Jesper
        $925,000
        C, LW, RW
        RFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Zajac, Travis
        $2,875,000
        C
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Merkley, Nick
        $800,000
        RW, C
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Wood, Miles
        $2,750,000
        LW
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the STL
        Steen, Alexander
        $5,750,000
        LW, RW, C
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
        Logo of the NJD
        Murray, Ryan
        $4,600,000
        LD
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the NJD
        Subban, P.K.
        $9,000,000
        RD
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Crawford, Corey
        $3,900,000
        G
        NTC
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Butcher, Will
        $2,822,764
        LD
        UFA - 2
        Logo of the NJD
        Severson, Damon
        $4,166,666
        RD
        UFA - 3
        Logo of the NJD
        Blackwood, Mackenzie
        $3,000,000
        G
        RFA - 3
        Logo of the NJD
        Smith, Ty
        $863,333
        LD/RD
        RFA - 3
        Logo of the NJD
        Carrick, Connor
        $1,500,000
        RD
        UFA - 1
        ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
        Logo of the NJD
        Mcleod, Michael
        $863,333
        C
        RFA - 1
        Logo of the MTL
        Byron, Paul
        $3,400,000
        LW, RW
        UFA - 3
        Logo of the NJD
        Kuokkanen, Janne
        $811,666
        LW, C
        UFA - 1
        Logo of the VAN
        Eriksson, Loui
        $6,000,000
        LW, RW
        NTC
        UFA - 2

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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:23 p.m.
        #1
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        a 2nd is better for Byron
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:23 p.m.
        #2
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        Couldn't agree more. In most cases, the cost it would take to dump a bad contract is more than teams are willing to pay which is why we've seen so many buyouts and very few teams actually moving the contracts. There isn't necessarily a deal to be made that makes sense for both teams.
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:26 p.m.
        #3
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        The quality of the player being dumped does make a difference though.
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:27 p.m.
        #4
        Good Opinion Haver
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        For the record, Marleau only cost so much to move because he was never going to play a single game for Carolina and everyone seems to be forgetting that Boston got Ondrej Kase back in that Backes trade who is now playing in their top six (and everyone forgets that until a pre-obviously bad and boat anchor contract laden Justin Faulk nixed the trade Kase almost went to Carolina in exchange for him, Kase was worth quite a bit), so Boston, in retrospect, gave up pretty much nothing to get rid of Backes.

        Pre-covid as long as it wasn't for too long teams wouldn't have to pay to get out of bad contracts and teams wouldn't take advantage of cap strapped teams. Obviously the math has changed a bit now.

        Not sure if you just picked oft-traded bad contracts out of a hat so maybe this isn't a real criticism but PSA to the masses: the Blues aren't interested in moving Steen and I don't think really ever were even before Pietrangelo was leaving, certainly not now and certainly not for a price.
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:40 p.m.
        #5
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        I agree that it costs quite a bit to dump a contract. However players like Byron who are only overpaid by about 1 Mil and are still very useful players and still hold value to GM's around the league won't cost a 1st to move. Byron cod get a late pick back without the Habs having to add but the problem is he is more valuable to the Habs than a 5th or 6th would be.
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:43 p.m.
        #6
        T.D.G line.
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        Bryon is not a cap dump for Montreal. He plays up and down the line up when healthy and one of 1st players over the boards when it's time for the P.K.
        It sucks that he has been injured the last two years.
        we will keep him.
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:45 p.m.
        #7
        BorisBagel
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        Habs pass
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:48 p.m.
        #8
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        Haha it has never costed a first to move a player. NEVER!!! Marleau refused to play for Carolina forcing a buy out VERY VERY VERY different situation and it still proved completely stupid to do.
        Backes did not cost a first some thing tells me they got more back than cap relief. Haha
        Marc Staal is super expensive and useless on the ice that’s the peek and most drastic fair example to use please note NO FIRST rounder included.
        It is very fair to argue a veteran even if slightly overpaid can bring value to a rebuilding club. How has rolling out youth constantly worked out for Edmonton? It took the additions of a few more veteran players like Neal Chiasson Larsson russell to stabilize the team and make them a tougher team to play against and youth does benefit from veterans on and off the ice. I just think this is foolish
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:50 p.m.
        #9
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        Quoting: Canucks33
        The quality of the player being dumped does make a difference though.


        To the team dumping him, perhaps. To the team taking him, it means diddly-squat. What you are offering is the pick or prospect.
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:51 p.m.
        #10
        W A G O N
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        I agree with this
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 6:51 p.m.
        #11
        alwaysnextyear
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        All of these other teams pass. I’ve ‘cap dumped’ Eriksson in many a Canucks ACGM with a 1st + another pick or good player, and often get fans of the other teams happily accepting. 2x 1sts is madness.
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 7:03 p.m.
        #12
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        Quoting: TheEarthmaster
        For the record, Marleau only cost so much to move because he was never going to play a single game for Carolina and everyone seems to be forgetting that Boston got Ondrej Kase back in that Backes trade who is now playing in their top six (and everyone forgets that until a pre-obviously bad and boat anchor contract laden Justin Faulk nixed the trade Kase almost went to Carolina in exchange for him, Kase was worth quite a bit), so Boston, in retrospect, gave up pretty much nothing to get rid of Backes.

        Pre-covid as long as it wasn't for too long teams wouldn't have to pay to get out of bad contracts and teams wouldn't take advantage of cap strapped teams. Obviously the math has changed a bit now.

        Not sure if you just picked oft-traded bad contracts out of a hat so maybe this isn't a real criticism but PSA to the masses: the Blues aren't interested in moving Steen and I don't think really ever were even before Pietrangelo was leaving, certainly not now and certainly not for a price.


        It was Axel for Kase...a 1st to take Backes. Steen was a bit random (but STL has to move someone and his NTC ends a month into season).

        Quoting: Campabee
        I agree that it costs quite a bit to dump a contract. However players like Byron who are only overpaid by about 1 Mil and are still very useful players and still hold value to GM's around the league won't cost a 1st to move. Byron cod get a late pick back without the Habs having to add but the problem is he is more valuable to the Habs than a 5th or 6th would be.


        Quoting: TGDline
        Bryon is not a cap dump for Montreal. He plays up and down the line up when healthy and one of 1st players over the boards when it's time for the P.K.
        It sucks that he has been injured the last two years.
        we will keep him.


        If this were true about Byron, Habs fans would be offering him every five minutes. But I am not really singling him out ... just making a broader point.

        Quoting: Timmah007
        Haha it has never costed a first to move a player. NEVER!!! Marleau refused to play for Carolina forcing a buy out VERY VERY VERY different situation and it still proved completely stupid to do.
        Backes did not cost a first some thing tells me they got more back than cap relief. Haha
        Marc Staal is super expensive and useless on the ice that’s the peek and most drastic fair example to use please note NO FIRST rounder included.
        It is very fair to argue a veteran even if slightly overpaid can bring value to a rebuilding club. How has rolling out youth constantly worked out for Edmonton? It took the additions of a few more veteran players like Neal Chiasson Larsson russell to stabilize the team and make them a tougher team to play against and youth does benefit from veterans on and off the ice. I just think this is foolish


        Never costed a first.....but you hit two examples right there.
        And I'm not anti-veteran. I am pro-veteran. Just don't try to sell me on your veterans, I'll find my own.
        Oct. 16, 2020 at 7:18 p.m.
        #13
        CHI NYI
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        All fair points, however the Cash vs AAV is a legit thing to mention I think, especially now. I've proposed a Boychuk for Zaitsev swap in the past, which I feel could work well for both teams if the right additions are made; Islanders get the more expensive player for longer, but at a lesser AAV. Meanwhile, the Sens get the cheaper player, with a higher cap hit for shorter. I had it constructed with both sides making additions although I wasn't totally sure how to do it. I don't know if the Sens are looking to shed real money at this point, so you might have to try something like this with another team, but I do think it's worthwhile to consider how a contract with a higher AAV and lower in actual money. Of course, that's not the only reason a team should do it, which is what I think is the point you're trying to make, some definitely worth considering if you're a team in that predicament.
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        Oct. 16, 2020 at 10:09 p.m.
        #14
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        Blues are putting Steen on LTIR for the entire season his injury from playoffs hasn't gotten any better so most likely LTIRetire.
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        Oct. 17, 2020 at 1:48 a.m.
        #15
        SLIMY
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        "SECOND, know what you are selling. It is not a useful veteran...it is THE INCENTIVE to take that veteran. It's the pick or a prospect (that just happens to have someone else's contract attached). The rebuilding team won't care if he scores 20, or if he cannot tie his own skates. To the other team, they only want the incentive. That is what you are selling."

        since it seems like I am the only one that read the description, just wanted to thank you for making this point.

        Unless it is a guy like Schmidt or Johnsson that check all of the boxes on the buyer side, nobody cares about the on ice value of the asset. Its almost always a matter of the seller deciding just how much he is willing to give up in order to clear cap space, and the buyers are under no obligation to accept. From the devils perspective, almost every player over the age of 26 is going to be viewed as a cap dump. the going rate is likely a 1st, or top prospect per about every 4mm you are trying to unload. I am sure the price will also be going up with every passing day, as 28 teams are basically trying to play a game of musical chairs with the 3 teams that have remaining cap space.
        NHLfan10506 liked this.
         
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