Left, but Malkin needs to be on that side

Right. Any top 10 center list without barkov isn’t really worth looking at.

I would have to disagree with you on that one

I think Eichel gets undervalued because of his team

#11

Just off the list, give him a couple of seasons to really get his game going. He's still practically a baby... he's unreal, but hasn't even scratched his surface yet. Given his current developmental stage though, at this point I think Couturier is still better, for now.

Petey's still better than either Zibanejad, O'Reilly, or Kuznetsov. Hands-down.

what's your beef with eichel???

I don't think it's close. Pettersson drags Vancouver kicking and screaming through the playoffs, while Eichel hardly manages to be a net positive due to his inept defensive ability. Pettersson has been better than Eichel since he entered the league.

Point is the best or 2nd best player on the, by far, best team in the league. He's a standout player on maybe the best roster we've seen in the cap era, and yet Eichel gets credited for accomplishing nothing? miss me with that

Wut

jack eichel is a top 5 center... not 7th or 8th

Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Eichel, Matthews, are all for sure better than Barkov

You could probably make a case that after that you could put any combination of Barkov, Point, Pettersson, Bergeron, Couturier, O'Reilly, Zibanejad, Scheifele, etc

I don't think Barkov is a definitive top 10 center but he's definitely a solid candidate.

McDavid
Crosby/MacKinnon
Crosby/MacKinnon
Draisaitl
Matthews/Eichel/Barkov
Matthews/Eichel/Barkov
Matthews/Eichel/Barkov
Malkin
Bergeron
O'Reilly

After that I would have:
Couturier
Tavares
Point/Aho/Pettersson/Barzal/Dubois
Scheifele
Toews/Kopitar/Zibanijad
Couture
Kuznetsov/Backstrom/Monahan/Larkin/Duchene/Hischier?

Barkov is definitely in the same boat as Matthews and Eichel. He's 1 season removed from 94 points and has an excellent 2-way game.

I don't disagree that Pettersson is going to be a ridiculously skilled player throughout his career, but as of now he's not better than Eichel. Vancouver was a bubble team all year and could have very possibly missed the playoffs so let's not make that the narrative and he didn't even lead his team in scoring, JT Miller did. He will be up there with Eichel soon enough, but he isn't yet.

Point has become super overrated. He's not the best player on his team, or the second best player on the team. That's Hedman and Kucherov and it's AINEC. He doesn't even have a definitive case for #3, #4 with Vasilevskiy and Stamkos (Yeah I know recency bias where Stamkos sucks because he missed the playoffs).

I think they are both top 10 centers, just not Eichel level... yet.

Yeah, but Pettersson and Point were both clearly better than him this year

I just don't get it. At what point do we value defensive ability then? Is it not 100% as valuable as offense? Then what, 50%?

No, Point was getting first line minutes ahead of Stamkos even last year when both were healthy. We don't have to get stuck in an argument about Tampa's roster, but I disagree. Miller came from that very same Tampa team we're talking about and somehow Pettersson bumped him up in scoring. Your appeal to linear development is tiresome, and you're not giving a single argument as to why it's the case, you just naturally assume that players become better as they play in the league longer, and if they haven't played for as long they can't be as good. Pettersson entered this league better than Eichel has ever been. Every number I value tells me that. You saying "it will happen, but hasn't happened yet" doesn't interact with that at all.

Sure but 1 year is a bad sample size, ignoring his previous years is like saying Nylander's 18/19 performance is the regular.

Ok but you saying that Pettersson entered the league better than Eichel has no correlation with who is better now. For example: Matthews and Pettersson entered the league better than Draisaitl and Mackinnon. But they aren't better now. Me saying that Pettersson hasn't surpassed Eichel has nothing to do with linear development curves it has to do with their skill level. Eichel had 12 more points than Pettersson last season. What makes up the gap between those two players to justify Pettersson being the better player despite him playing on easily the better team with more help? And if you argue that his defensive abilities are the difference in the gap in points, then you can't make a claim that Pettersson is better than O'Reilly, Couturier or Bergeron.

His defensive ability. You do understand that although one can be better defensively, it's defense and offense together that makes the player good? I have Couturier as my #1 or #2 C in the league. Bergeron is at this point in his career better offensively than defensively, but still up there. O'Reilly is good but not on any of the other guys level - closer to Eichel.

Also - offensive ability isn't entirely capsulated in points, which seems to be your presumption.

Couturier is your number 1 Center in the league? Next thing you are going to tell me Nichushkin is the real Hart winner

Great way of engaging with the points I made

I don't have the energy to argue with this.

If you think Couturier>McDavid lol

Yep

Matthews and Pettersson were, and still are better than Draisaitl

Theres way more to offense than just points. And if you want to "look at the gap in points" also look at the gap in their defensive game

Oh I forgot Matthews and Pettersson were defensemen. Way to ignore the fact that defensive forwards have less control on goals allowed then offensive forwards have on goals scored.