Struggling with Danault

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Created by: Habs4ever

Team: 2020-21 Montreal Canadiens

Initial Creation Date: Oct. 20, 2020

Published: Oct. 20, 2020

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

Didn't do any trades, nor paid any attention to the salary cap. My entire post is about Danault.

Most would agree Suzuki will be this year or next the #1 C on the team. He is a special player, good on PP & PK.

Maybe not this year but the following KK, takes over at #2 C. I also really like Evans at #4 C. Super smart player. Doesn't cheat. responsible and plays 200 feet. Is Danault a good player, absolutely. Team player, plays 200 feet. Good on PK, shut down other top lines. Will he accept to eventually play #3 C and at what price? He has played 4 full seasons as the #1 C yet never had more than 13 goals in a season. 50 goals in his career. That's a goal almost every 7 games. 3.8 to 4.9 million would be my offer. Now some will say, he deserves more. Does he? will he get more elsewhere? yes he will. People compare him to Pageau's contract at $5. The Islanders only have 8 million in cap space and need to sign 2 d-men and 1 forward. That 1 forward's name is Barzal. If you overpay, it pinches elsewhere. Now what about Poehling? could he be your #3 C. Maybe not next year but the year after? perhaps!

Bergeron, has 11 seasons of over 20 goals. I even looked way back to Jacques Lemaire that was a defensive C, between two snipers in Schutt and Lafleur. Lemaire had 12 seasons of over 20 goals. Danault has zero and never has had more than 13 goals. On the PK, MTL has Suze, Byron, Armia, Lehky & Toffoli plenty of options

What are peoples thoughts on this?

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Karl Alzner: $3,958,333

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2021
2022
2023

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

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ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$81,500,000	$75,141,309	$0	$3,137,500	$6,358,691

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Drouin, Jonathan $5,500,000$5,500,000 LW, RW UFA - 3	Suzuki, Nick $863,333$863,333 ($425,000$425K) C UFA - 2	Toffoli, Tyler $2,125,000$2,125,000 RW, LW UFA - 4
Tatar, Tomas $4,800,000$4,800,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Danault, Phillip $3,083,333$3,083,333 C UFA - 1	Gallagher, Brendan $3,750,000$3,750,000 RW, LW NMC UFA - 1
Byron, Paul $3,400,000$3,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 3	Kotkaniemi, Jesperi $925,000$925,000 ($2,500,000$2M) C UFA - 1	Anderson, Josh $5,500,000$5,500,000 RW, LW UFA - 7
Lehkonen, Artturi $2,400,000$2,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Evans, Jake $750,000$750,000 C UFA - 2	Armia, Joel $2,600,000$2,600,000 RW, LW UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Chiarot, Ben $1,750,000$1,750,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 2	Weber, Shea $7,857,143$7,857,143 RD UFA - 6	Price, Carey $10,500,000$10,500,000 G NMC UFA - 6
Edmundson, Joel $875,000$875,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 4	Petry, Jeff $5,500,000$5,500,000 RD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1	Allen, Jake $4,350,000$4,350,000 G UFA - 1
Romanov, Alexander $894,167$894,167 ($212,500$212K) LD RFA - 2	Juulsen, Noah $700,000$700,000 RD UFA - 1
Kulak, Brett $925,000$925,000 LD/RD UFA - 2
Mete, Victor $735,000$735,000 LD/RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Weal, Jordan $1,400,000$1,400,000 C, RW, LW UFA - 1

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:42 p.m.

Ragsandbluesfan

Rangers 2023

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 19,043

Likes: 5,430

hes going to get paid pageau money, its that simple

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:44 p.m.

villenash

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 10,245

Likes: 7,114

I think he gets traded -- but so do Byron, Armia (likely walks), and Lehkonen. They can't keep all of their forwards, so their PK could look very different very quickly - at least compared to what you listed there.

There are a lot of teams in need of centers, so I think it makes the most sense to trade him.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:46 p.m.

math731

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

Likes: 1,571

Id say keep him at a fair price (5m), but still test the market for his actual value... If he can fetch an A prospect and a first or a second depending on the prospect, or a big, fast and skilled LW, then maybe trade him

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:48 p.m.

Bmersereau73

BM73

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 710

Likes: 196

Yes more goals from Danault would be nice, but that's not what makes him so valuable, yes you win games by scoring goals but you also win them by preventing them, and as far as Centers go, you'd be hard pressed to find a bunch of shutdown centers that are better than Danault. He's also a good passer, he does have some offensive instincts, and I believe he still has room to grow as far as offense goes, I get your point, Montreal can't afford to overpay Danault, but 5.5 wouldn't be an overpayment for one of the best defensive centers in the league, that can score at a 50 point pace. Danault is in Selke conversations and could be a finalist one day, he's a very important player to the Montreal Canadiens, and while I like Ryan Poehling and Jake Evans, I don't think they are ready to take on as big of a role that Danault currently has.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:48 p.m.

Can_Fan

Joined: Sep. 2020

Posts: 105

Likes: 8

I think it would be wise to wait further down in the season before you try and sign him. Show him how being a 3rd C on a winning team has its benefits and sign him to something like Pageau's contract or lower (Pageau has more scoring and is a beast come playoffs).

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:50 p.m.

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

Joined: Jan. 2017

Posts: 2,728

Likes: 1,195

Quoting: Ragsandbluesfan

hes going to get paid pageau money, its that simple

so you say $5 M per year? it is mathematically possible. Will he accept eventual #3 C ?

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:52 p.m.

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

Joined: Jan. 2017

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Quoting: villenash

You make a good argument. If they trade him, might they get a high draft pick? but here is the other slippery slope to this. Habs should make playoff's next year, they won't trade him away before playoff's, so does he walk at end of season for nothing?

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:53 p.m.

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

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Quoting: math731

okay fair enough and you made good points. Here's my follow up question. Habs should make playoff's, will they trade him away just before playoff's? that makes no sense. So do you lose him for nothing next year?

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:53 p.m.

Jfstompers

Pop Pop

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 14,547

Likes: 8,251

Danault is a useful player absolutely and good defensively and has good playmaking skills. Hes a middle 6 center but he seems like hed be the most useful in a defensive role.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:55 p.m.

#10

Habs4ever

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Habs4ever

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Quoting: Bmersereau73

you made some solid arguments. All worth while. So if you pay him $5.5 as you suggest. Where would you place him? #1,2 or 3 C ?

Bmersereau73 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:56 p.m.

#11

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

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Quoting: Can_Fan

good points. Will he sign and for how much?

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:56 p.m.

#12

csick

KFTW

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 42,606

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7 years at 5.5-5.75 is fair. He’s a bit better offensively than Pageau. That’s what he deserves

villenash liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:58 p.m.

#13

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

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Quoting: Jfstompers

Danault is a useful player absolutely and good defensively and has good playmaking skills. Hes a middle 6 center but he seems like hed be the most useful in a defensive role.

I agree with you. Sadly what all of us, do not know is how does Danault see himself and at what amount? also does he see himself as #1,2 or 3 C on the team going forward. Maybe not this upcoming season but the following?

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:58 p.m.

#14

TMLBRIAN

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 9,443

Likes: 4,149

If you can sign him to a 5m x 4 or 5 year contract, you really should. He is a very serviceable number 2 centre. If he falls to your number 3 Centre, he would still play over 18 minutes and take all brutal defensive assignments, He can really help shelter KK and Suzuki. As long as he is willing to adapt to different line assignments.

He came top 6 in Selke voting this year. That is a huge piece to try and keep.

villenash and Bmersereau73 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:58 p.m.

#15

villenash

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 10,245

Likes: 7,114

Quoting: Habs4ever

He definitely makes this team more competetive this season. So yeah, unless you're out at the deadline then he probably stays for playoffs. A lot will depend on how he does this season I think. But I know if it'll changes MTL's mind -- if he has a good year, he prices himself out - if a bad or status quo year, maybe MTL wants to move on.

I wonder if he would be interested in a 1C/2C position with the Seattle expansion team if he becomes a UFA.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 12:59 p.m.

#16

Bmersereau73

BM73

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 710

Likes: 196

Quoting: Habs4ever

you made some solid arguments. All worth while. So if you pay him $5.5 as you suggest. Where would you place him? #1,2 or 3 C ?

For this up coming season I still have him with Tatar and Gallagher but after this season I'd have as 3 or maybe 2, Depends on How Suzuki and KK preform, doesn't hurt to have Danault there just in case one of them struggle, and you need good / great center depth to win cups, even if you have to pay for that depth. Danault does so many great things for our team, I feel he would preform just fine as the 3rd line center (but starts games like the Coleman line in Tampa) with top PK time, and some PP time.

math731 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:01 p.m.

#17

math731

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

Likes: 1,571

Quoting: Habs4ever

Id entertain a trade right now before the start of the season, but that wouldnt make sense for MB especially after his offseason. He wants to win and losing Danault (even for a great player) would decrease our odds of being in the playoffs. Trading him at the TDL is a likely outcome if we're not a playoff team and losing him for nothing after the season is the WORST possible outcome

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:07 p.m.

#18

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

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Quoting: TMLBRIAN

I agree with your assessment and yes he is in Selke conversations. The key sentence is when you said "as long as he is willing to adapt to different line assignments" to me, that's the million dollar question.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:09 p.m.

#19

Habs4ever

Thread Starter

Habs4ever

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Quoting: villenash

good points. Also will Suzuki and or KK have slumps or will they play like they did in the playoff's? would you lose Danault to Seattle for nothing? he has worth!

villenash liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:12 p.m.

#20

Habs4ever

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Habs4ever

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Quoting: Bmersereau73

so many good arguments on here about this post. It shows people study the game and the players. So many if's about Suzuki, KK, Poehling and Danault. Good problems to have.

Bmersereau73 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:17 p.m.

#21

Habs4ever

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Habs4ever

Joined: Jan. 2017

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Quoting: math731

Id entertain a trade right now before the start of the season, but that wouldn't make sense for MB especially after his offseason. He wants to win and losing Danault (even for a great player) would decrease our odds of being in the playoffs. Trading him at the TDL is a likely outcome if we're not a playoff team and losing him for nothing after the season is the WORST possible outcome

no matter what Bergevin does, he will never please the Habs fan base. if you trade before season and Suzuki, KK or Poehling have bad years, Bergevin will hear about it. If you trade him at TDL and Habs make it into playoff's, Bergevin will hear about it and if you wait until season end and Danault walks for nothing, Bergevin will also hear about it. No wonder he is turning grey with bags under his eyes! LOL

math731 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:17 p.m.

#22

Bmersereau73

BM73

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 710

Likes: 196

Quoting: Habs4ever

so many good arguments on here about this post. It shows people study the game and the players. So many if's about Suzuki, KK, Poehling and Danault. Good problems to have.

You're absolutely right about that, it's an interesting topic, I understand both sides of the argument, I just think what Danault brings to the Canadiens is so valuable, and I think relying on 4 young centers is incredibly risky when they haven't truly proven it yet. That being said I think Suzuki will be a star, and KK will be good or great center as well, but as you said, there is a lot of chance and if's with that.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:18 p.m.

#23

math731

Zuke is the goat

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 4,660

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Quoting: Habs4ever

Hahaha thats so true

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:20 p.m.

#24

Habs4ever

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Habs4ever

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Quoting: Bmersereau73

Can you imagine going to 3rd or 4th round of playoff's with Suze, KK, Poehling and Evans as your 4 C's??? talk about little experience. Another factor, who is the real Poehling? the guy that played so well in his first game or the player that struggled last season? what's his ceiling?

Bmersereau73 liked this.

Oct. 20, 2020 at 1:24 p.m.

#25

Bmersereau73

BM73

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 710

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Quoting: Habs4ever

Exactly, I think if Montreal wants to do some damage in the playoffs they need Danault, to take that key face off at any point in the game, or shut down a star player, he's capable of it, he was a big factor of shutting down Crosby / Pittsburg. And Poehling is an interesting question, I couldn't tell you who the real Poehling is, that's why I think its too risky to expect him to be Danault's replacement. I think his absolute ceiling would be a Kevin Hayes type, but that's his ceiling, I don't know if he is going to reach that tbh, he has the tools of an NHL player, but in reality he could end up being no better than a decent 4th liner.

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