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Spitballing PHI JVR

Created by: Miguelicious
Team: 2020-21 Edmonton Oilers
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 27, 2020
Published: Oct. 27, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I mean look, JVR got demoted to the 3rd line. Might as well trade him for an actual bottom 6 guy who can still score. With the Oilers keeping another 750k that's a 2M savings right off the bat, easier buyout situation, and can be used as fodder for the upcoming expansion draft.

Samorukov is the 3rd best D prospect we have beyond Broberg and Bouchard, who are untouchable in my eyes. The 3rd rounder is there as a sweetener.

Relax it's just an idea.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$2,000,000
1$750,000
Trades
PHI
  1. Neal, James ($750,000 retained)
  2. Samorukov, Dmitri
  3. 2022 3rd round pick (EDM)
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the EDM
2022
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
2023
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,350,699$341,534$730,000$149,301

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$12,500,000$12,500,000
C
UFA - 6
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,200,000$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$6,000,000$6,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$8,500,000$8,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$230,000$230K)
RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,650,000$1,650,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,175,000$1,175,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$875,000$875,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$915,000$915,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$5,600,000$5,600,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,166,666$4,166,666
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$850,000$850,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,500,000$1,500,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
G
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$2,150,000$2,150,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,167,000$4,167,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2

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Oct. 27, 2020 at 11:52 a.m.
#1
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Idk if that's a good trade for either team...
Oct. 27, 2020 at 11:54 a.m.
#2
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Why would Edmonton do this?
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 11:56 a.m.
#3
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Please no.. I don’t want him.
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 11:56 a.m.
#4
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Oil Country Rising
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Quoting: dzad96
Idk if that's a good trade for either team...


Wanna know what tells me this is (at the very least) in the same neighborhood for value? Can't definitively say who "wins".

Now, if JVR is rejuvenated alongside 97? great! you solved the 1LW issue.
If he aint, well there's always the expansion draft (he's unprotected).
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 11:58 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: Miguelicious
Wanna know what tells me this is (at the very least) in the same neighborhood for value? Can't definitively say who "wins".

Now, if JVR is rejuvenated alongside 97? great! you solved the 1LW issue.
If he aint, well there's always the expansion draft (he's unprotected).


Possibly. I see it as a no win situation for Philly, if JVR is a total flop for the Oilers Philly gains 2ish in cap space for a couple years. But if JVR is good in EDM then Philly got fleeced. Seems to big of a risk for 2 mil in cap space to me. JVR could easy get 30+ in EDM.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:00 p.m.
#6
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: dzad96
Possibly. I see it as a no win situation for Philly, if JVR is a total flop for the Oilers Philly gains 2ish in cap space for a couple years. But if JVR is good in EDM then Philly got fleeced. Seems to big of a risk for 2 mil in cap space to me. JVR could easy get 30+ in EDM.


Yes but that argues the posters point I think. You don’t see JVR getting 30 in phi. You can see him getting 30 with #97 - not in Philly orange but EDM orange. So even if he gets 30 - he probably wouldve never gotten it in Philly
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:01 p.m.
#7
I make typos
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this isn't that bad, I bet JVR would be great along side McDavid I mean like wouldn't be great with him
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:02 p.m.
#8
EklundCelebriniSmith
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I think it’s a “fair trade” but one EDM sees losing more - a good prospect (not a decent one).

Could workout tho
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:05 p.m.
#9
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Oil Country Rising
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Quoting: CD282
Why would Edmonton do this?


Quoting: Nhl_oilers
Please no.. I don’t want him.


Like every trade, it's a gamble. JVR, for all intents and purposes, is still 31 versus a 34 year old Neal.
In the last 4 years, Neal's totals were as such: 41, 44, 19, 31.
In that same timeframe JVR's were: 62, 54, 48, 40.

To be honest, I'd take the bigger bet on the younger guy whose two underwhelming seasons came during a change of scenery and playing less minutes.

Aside from the main pieces, how would you tweak the complementary pieces? That's what ACGM posts are for right?
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:06 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: dzad96
JVR could easy get 30+ in EDM.


*Checks stats*

Neal got 19 in 55 games, which prorates to 28 goals. And that's with playing a month on a broken foot.

Not to mention spending $2M more per season + giving up a good prospect + a 3rd.

Yup, no dice from Edmonton.
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:09 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: yikes
I think it’s a “fair trade” but one EDM sees losing more - a good prospect (not a decent one).

Could workout tho


Please let me know what could be done on either side. I do think it's not too shabby an idea overall.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:09 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Miguelicious
Like every trade, it's a gamble. JVR, for all intents and purposes, is still 31 versus a 34 year old Neal.
In the last 4 years, Neal's totals were as such: 41, 44, 19, 31.
In that same timeframe JVR's were: 62, 54, 48, 40.

To be honest, I'd take the bigger bet on the younger guy whose two underwhelming seasons came during a change of scenery and playing less minutes.

Aside from the main pieces, how would you tweak the complementary pieces? That's what ACGM posts are for right?


I just don’t like the 7M salary on JVR for what the 3 more years. I think we could get Seattle to take Neal with of course paying, or buying him out next year after the draft. I know buying out Neal isn’t ideal but we need that money pretty soon especially if it stays in a flat cap.
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:13 p.m.
#13
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Oil Country Rising
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Quoting: CD282
*Checks stats*

Neal got 19 in 55 games, which prorates to 28 goals. And that's with playing a month on a broken foot.

Not to mention spending $2M more per season + giving up a good prospect + a 3rd.

Yup, no dice from Edmonton.


Yeah 11 in the first month and 8 for the next 4 and a half. Back when, oh i dunno, he was plastered on PP1 and not just scraps on PP2 every other tuesday. Quite the flaw in that argument.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:19 p.m.
#14
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Oil Country Rising
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Quoting: Nhl_oilers
I just don’t like the 7M salary on JVR for what the 3 more years. I think we could get Seattle to take Neal with of course paying, or buying him out next year after the draft. I know buying out Neal isn’t ideal but we need that money pretty soon especially if it stays in a flat cap.


I do get that. I absolutely do. To me, it's this:

Oilers are already spending 5.75M on someone who isnt even in the conversation for "top 6", and is clearly deteriorating FAST.

750k more on Lucic retention pushes that to effectively 6.5M.

JVR sits at 7M ok, deep breath.
Plus this scenario we're adding another 750k.
So is that the hang up?

Also, we do have 28M give or take of cap next year.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:19 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: Miguelicious
Yeah 11 in the first month and 8 for the next 4 and a half. Back when, oh i dunno, he was plastered on PP1 and not just scraps on PP2 every other tuesday. Quite the flaw in that argument.


He wasn't plastered on PP1 though - that was only for the first half of the season. You fail to understand that he also played with an injury that severely affected his skating and eventually forced him to take a month off. But yeah, let's go and spend $7.75M PLUS a good prospect PLUS a decent pick on a guy who isn't a clear upgrade. Smart move.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:20 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Miguelicious
someone who isnt even in the conversation for "top 6", and is clearly deteriorating FAST.


Do you even watch the games? He played the second half on a broken foot and then was one of the Oilers best players in the play-in series.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:24 p.m.
#17
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Oil Country Rising
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Quoting: CD282
He wasn't plastered on PP1 though - that was only for the first half of the season. You fail to understand that he also played with an injury that severely affected his skating and eventually forced him to take a month off. But yeah, let's go and spend $7.75M PLUS a good prospect PLUS a decent pick on a guy who isn't a clear upgrade. Smart move.


That's what I mean. He got those 11 goals mostly on PP1, and then the production dried up even at that cozy setup so they switched to Chiasson.

The post is there for discussion, but if you're too fixated on spending 5.75M on a guy who will undoubtedly have ZERO chance of even getting a second of top 6 icetime, that's fine too. Have a great day!
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:26 p.m.
#18
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JVR makes wayyyy too much money. It's cheaper to buy out Neal and then pick up a top 6 winger from FA next season.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:28 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: CD282
Do you even watch the games? He played the second half on a broken foot and then was one of the Oilers best players in the play-in series.


Good showing or no, broken foot in a bottom 6 guy or not, it still does not even come close to solving the 1LW issue as to do away with breaking up the 2nd line for 'balance'.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:41 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: Miguelicious
That's what I mean. He got those 11 goals mostly on PP1, and then the production dried up even at that cozy setup so they switched to Chiasson.

The post is there for discussion, but if you're too fixated on spending 5.75M on a guy who will undoubtedly have ZERO chance of even getting a second of top 6 icetime, that's fine too. Have a great day!


On the contrary, I think Neal will get opportunities to play in the top-6 next year based on his 5v5 play this year:

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=r&team=EDM&pos=F&loc=B&toi=400&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:43 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Miguelicious
Good showing or no, broken foot in a bottom 6 guy or not, it still does not even come close to solving the 1LW issue as to do away with breaking up the 2nd line for 'balance'.


He's not a great option for 1LW, but JVR isn't a better option. Why spend huge money + a good prospect + a good pick for a guy that isn't an upgrade? Makes no sense.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:50 p.m.
#22
Ouch
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I think PHI would take less for JVR based of several points made by people on this post. I could see PHI trading JVR for Neal plus a late pick. PHI saves cap and get a player who will probably play close to the same amount of ice team as JVR with a PP role. EDM gets a possible 1LW for a season or two. Maybe he gets taken in the expansion draft but would probably cost to much to convince Seattle to do that. It's a bigger risk with a higher reward for EDM but could turn out awful. That's why EDM says no if they have to trade a solid and yes he is good prospect and a 3rd.
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Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:56 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: CD282
He's not a great option for 1LW, but JVR isn't a better option. Why spend huge money + a good prospect + a good pick for a guy that isn't an upgrade? Makes no sense.


It depends on which James Neal we're going to get. Playoffs James Neal? Yes I'd agree this would not make sense and that guy I can get behind. Is this more a pipe dream or could this somewhat be a reality?

Are we rolling the 5.75M dice on Neal and getting old-guy November to March Neal? yikes.

Again, the 750k retention, Samorukov, 3rd rounder.. they're all up for discussion. If the offer currently spells out "bad deal for EDM" then we talk about removing one of more of those side-dishes instead of the useless noise.
Oct. 27, 2020 at 12:59 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: JmoneyTalk
I think PHI would take less for JVR based of several points made by people on this post. I could see PHI trading JVR for Neal plus a late pick. PHI saves cap and get a player who will probably play close to the same amount of ice team as JVR with a PP role. EDM gets a possible 1LW for a season or two. Maybe he gets taken in the expansion draft but would probably cost to much to convince Seattle to do that. It's a bigger risk with a higher reward for EDM but could turn out awful. That's why EDM says no if they have to trade a solid and yes he is good prospect and a 3rd.


This is the type of response I wait out for. Thank you for cutting to the point.

Taking 750k retention and Samorukov off the trade, would you be fine with say Safin/Maksimov + a 4th?

To PHI
Neal
Maksimov
2022 4th

To EDM
JVR

Definitely better no doubt, but would PHI do this?
Oct. 27, 2020 at 1:36 p.m.
#25
Ouch
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Quoting: Miguelicious
This is the type of response I wait out for. Thank you for cutting to the point.

Taking 750k retention and Samorukov off the trade, would you be fine with say Safin/Maksimov + a 4th?

To PHI
Neal
Maksimov
2022 4th

To EDM
JVR

Definitely better no doubt, but would PHI do this?


I try. Aha I think EDM seriously considers it. If JVR doesn't work out they pay Seattle to take JVR which in turns opens up enough cap space to sign any number of high profile UFAs next offseason that would most definitely make an impact right from the start and for a number of years. I think Neal would only be a slight downgrade as a player but with a slight decrease in salary which is probably the most valuable part of this trade. Throw in a decent prospect and a 4th and o think its a more then fair deal. Also if Neal doesn't work out in PHI I'm sure they could convince Seattle to take him. And they end up with a prospect and a pick after Neal is gone. It's hard to say but seems like a fist trade to me.
 
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