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A toxic trade

Created by: HatterTParty
Team: 2020-21 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 28, 2020
Published: Oct. 28, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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I’d love to see him with Kane though
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$65,262,147$1,090,244$3,825,000$16,237,853
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LW, RW
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
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$2,625,000$2,625,000
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NMC
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C, LW
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C
UFA - 1
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$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
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RFA - 1
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LW, RW
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C
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$725,000$725,000
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 2
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$3,200,000$3,200,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$3,850,000$3,850,000
RD
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$850,000$850,000
G
UFA - 2
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$4,550,000$4,550,000
LD/RD
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
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ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$725,000$725,000
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$3,250,000$3,250,000
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M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$6,875,000$6,875,000
RD
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:30 a.m.
#26
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Quoting: GMs
Kotkaniemi played at 18 yo doesn't mean he was better than Suzuki
Suzuki did ****ing well at 19yo we can't complain about is 19 yo season
He started the year playing on the 4th line with Cousins/Weal/Thompson and manage to end the year being the #1 center and was our best forward by far in these playoffs.
Manage to put 41 points despite playing 4th line minutes at the beginning in Claude Julien system ( which is something lol )

But I didn't watch enough of Dach, only highlights ( regular season only ) and his goal looks like garbage goals / huge rebound with an empty net ( good thing he's driving the net I'm not roasting him at ALL )
Again he was super young and making the team at 18 is always something


I know hawks fans hate when I nit pick this on Dach, but dude, the kid cannot shoot! Period. It’s very clear his offense comes from passing almost exclusively. Yes he’s got the big body and can be a Net front presence, but he doesn’t do it nearly enough on the power play nor is his hand eye up to nhl level yet.

Just a bunch of things that will probably come with time. But for now, he’s purely a playmaker.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:34 a.m.
#27
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Quoting: GMs
Kotkaniemi played at 18 yo doesn't mean he was better than Suzuki
Suzuki did ****ing well at 19yo we can't complain about is 19 yo season
He started the year playing on the 4th line with Cousins/Weal/Thompson and manage to end the year being the #1 center and was our best forward by far in these playoffs.
Manage to put 41 points despite playing 4th line minutes at the beginning in Claude Julien system ( which is something lol )

But I didn't watch enough of Dach, only highlights ( regular season only ) and his goal looks like garbage goals / huge rebound with an empty net ( good thing he's driving the net I'm not roasting him at ALL )
Again he was super young and making the team at 18 is always something


Suzki at the age of 19 was in the OHL (Suzuki turned 21 in August) when he was 18 was his big season in the OHL, versus comparing Dach at the age of 18 in the NHL.

I watched Suzuki in the playoffs and he was great, so was Dach in the playoffs especially against Edmonton often matching up on Leon D.

I like Suzuki and he will continue to develop and be a great player but there is reason analysts love Dach's future and guys like Pronman ranking Dach ahead of Suzuki despite the age gap.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:41 a.m.
#28
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Quoting: GMs
Really ? Between Dach and Suzuki you'll take Dach ?


I'd take Dach over Suzuki because he's 6'4 and I think we need a more physical presence.

Either way, it's really not about the value in a trade like this. Chicago fans want Dach and Montreal fans want Suzuki.

The trade is toxic because obviously both franchises were going to say that
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:43 a.m.
#29
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Quoting: ChiHawk
"Hawks fans adore Dach and MTL fans adore Suzuki" that is non bias! "Hawks fans have a woody for Dach and MTL loves Suzuki" that is bias

You did, because you weren't a fan and wish the Hawks drafted Turcotte and Byram (you were very vocal about it here), and still call out things about Dach from his predraft card that aren't accurate such as speed and lack of skating...that simply isn't true and he's proven that. Furthermore, Pronman from The Athletic on his best players/prospect under 23 years old has Dach as #16, Suzuki at #27, Byram at #31, and tanked on Turcotte at #89; there are very good reasons for his rankings not to mention he's obviously very well respected as a analyst and writer around the league.


Lol, okay, well, I definitely didn’t mean that to be a bias, so that’s my bad I would say.

Sure I wanted byram or turcotte, however, my choice was honestly Trevor zegras, but that was NEVER gonna happen at number 3. If it was him or byram, yea, I’d be happy. As for now, I haven’t really addressed his speed lately, just his shot and hand eye. Keep in mind, I still haven’t even brought up that Suzuki got Calder votes (albeit not many) and Dach got exactly ZERO. Not once in the last month. I get that people hate that I’ll never be a fan of his, but it wouldn’t be the first time someone disliked one of their own.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:44 a.m.
#30
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Suzki at the age of 19 was in the OHL (Suzuki turned 21 in August) when he was 18 was his big season in the OHL, versus comparing Dach at the age of 18 in the NHL.

I watched Suzuki in the playoffs and he was great, so was Dach in the playoffs especially against Edmonton often matching up on Leon D.

I like Suzuki and he will continue to develop and be a great player but there is reason analysts love Dach's future and guys like Pronman ranking Dach ahead of Suzuki despite the age gap.


Fair enough
Both really good players
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:44 a.m.
#31
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Quoting: HatterTParty
With fairness to Suzuki, he did actually get what, 18-20 points more, and with worse players in his rookie year. Dach went 28 of 29 games without a point. He definitely looked better in the playoffs, and sure he did help contain the MVP. However, he did contain an MVP on an awful team, and then Vegas happened.

I’m not Suzuki is leaps and bounds better, but I’ll give respect to another team’s top notch get. Amazing how well that Vegas trade worked for them.


Dach had 23 in 64, Suzuki had 41 in 71. In fairness to Dach, he played 2 minutes less a night. Dach missed all of preseason and training camp. Dach had 3 points on the powerplay, Suzuki had 14. Suzuki is also two years farther along in his development. Again, both great players. I think they’ll both be great NHLers. But I don’t think it’s all that crazy to think Dach will be better.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:44 a.m.
#32
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
I'd take Dach over Suzuki because he's 6'4 and I think we need a more physical presence.

Either way, it's really not about the value in a trade like this. Chicago fans want Dach and Montreal fans want Suzuki.

The trade is toxic because obviously both franchises were going to say that


Well said! Both sides are fully dug in on both players for sure.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:45 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: GMs
Kotkaniemi played at 18 yo doesn't mean he was better than Suzuki
Suzuki did ****ing well at 19yo we can't complain about is 19 yo season
He started the year playing on the 4th line with Cousins/Weal/Thompson and manage to end the year being the #1 center and was our best forward by far in these playoffs.
Manage to put 41 points despite playing 4th line minutes at the beginning in Claude Julien system ( which is something lol )

But I didn't watch enough of Dach, only highlights ( regular season only ) and his goal looks like garbage goals / huge rebound with an empty net ( good thing he's driving the net I'm not roasting him at ALL )
Again he was super young and making the team at 18 is always something


Yeah but you also have to adjust your perception for the obvious overrating that takes place with Montreal prospects.

The last one I saw was Caufield>Debrincat lol
Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:46 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Lol, okay, well, I definitely didn’t mean that to be a bias, so that’s my bad I would say.

Sure I wanted byram or turcotte, however, my choice was honestly Trevor zegras, but that was NEVER gonna happen at number 3. If it was him or byram, yea, I’d be happy. As for now, I haven’t really addressed his speed lately, just his shot and hand eye. Keep in mind, I still haven’t even brought up that Suzuki got Calder votes (albeit not many) and Dach got exactly ZERO. Not once in the last month. I get that people hate that I’ll never be a fan of his, but it wouldn’t be the first time someone disliked one of their own.


That's cool but the fact that you just said "I'll never be a fan of his" makes no sense. You won't be a fan if he comes out and scores 100 points next season?
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:47 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
Yeah but you also have to adjust your perception for the obvious overrating that takes place with Montreal prospects.

The last one I saw was Caufield>Debrincat lol


I mentioned I didn't watched a lot of Dach so its easier for me to keep the player I see 90 games than one that I watch 10 games
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:47 a.m.
#36
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
Yeah but you also have to adjust your perception for the obvious overrating that takes place with Montreal prospects.

The last one I saw was Caufield>Debrincat lol


I just want to hear more about Dach Rookie season
Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:49 a.m.
#37
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Quoting: GMs
I mentioned I didn't watched a lot of Dach so its easier for me to keep the player I see 90 games than one that I watch 10 games


That's fair. I mean I personally think they will both be great players. Who honestly knows who will be better at this point. Suzuki has more value right now but it would also be Chicago giving up on Dach way too early. Kind of like how Kotkaniemi is highly regarded in Montreal but if he were traded, it would be hard to get full value.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:51 a.m.
#38
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
That's cool but the fact that you just said "I'll never be a fan of his" makes no sense. You won't be a fan if he comes out and scores 100 points next season?


Considering I just don’t see evidence of that happening even in his prime, it doesn’t matter.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 1:56 a.m.
#39
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Considering I just don’t see evidence of that happening even in his prime, it doesn’t matter.


Ok so reword that as "I'll never bee a fan of his unless he puts up 100 points a season"
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:03 a.m.
#40
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
Ok so reword that as "I'll never bee a fan of his unless he puts up 100 points a season"


That honestly still wouldn’t be enough though. He’d have to win a cup, but again, between the Avs, Vegas, and Vancouver on come up, that’s not happening anytime soon.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:04 a.m.
#41
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Quoting: HatterTParty
That honestly still wouldn’t be enough though. He’d have to win a cup, but again, between the Avs, Vegas, and Vancouver on come up, that’s not happening anytime soon.


You have really high standards for Dach lol
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:10 a.m.
#42
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Lol, okay, well, I definitely didn’t mean that to be a bias, so that’s my bad I would say.

Sure I wanted byram or turcotte, however, my choice was honestly Trevor zegras, but that was NEVER gonna happen at number 3. If it was him or byram, yea, I’d be happy. As for now, I haven’t really addressed his speed lately, just his shot and hand eye. Keep in mind, I still haven’t even brought up that Suzuki got Calder votes (albeit not many) and Dach got exactly ZERO. Not once in the last month. I get that people hate that I’ll never be a fan of his, but it wouldn’t be the first time someone disliked one of their own.


Not once were you talking about Zegras on here prior to the draft, c'mon man. Plenty of posts by you advocating for Byram or Turcotte.

Suzuki got Calder votes when he took 2 years longer to enter the league. Impressive but again, let's compare Dach with 2 more years of development against Suzuki last season and see. Did Zegras or Turcotte get any Calder votes; oh wait that's right they will take a couple years like Suzuki smile
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:13 a.m.
#43
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
You have really high standards for Dach lol


I actually don’t have high standards for him, that’s just what it would for me to come around on him. What I expect is significantly less honestly.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:15 a.m.
#44
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Edited Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:23 a.m.
Quoting: Breadmanhawks
You have really high standards for Dach lol


He's snake bit because he didn't want Dach and the Hawks still too him.

I work for a company of 15,000 employees and love it when even the janitor thinks he's a better then our CEO that is pulling down $10M a year and has doubled the size of the company in the last 7 years because the CEO complained the floors were dirty in the lobby. The company's stock could double and the CEO could give everyone a 25% raise and still the receptionist at the front desk thinks she's a better CEO because she doesn't like the way the CEO doesn't greet everyone every time he walks through the lobby.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:22 a.m.
#45
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Not once were you talking about Zegras on here prior to the draft, c'mon man. Plenty of posts by you advocating for Byram or Turcotte.

Suzuki got Calder votes when he took 2 years longer to enter the league. Impressive but again, let's compare Dach with 2 more years of development against Suzuki last season and see. Did Zegras or Turcotte get any Calder votes; oh wait that's right they will take a couple years like Suzuki smile


Again, a big reason I didn’t bring up zegras was because he was never going that high. Yes, I would have loved turcotte, but byram was the realistic one I desperately wanted. Zegras is gonna be special though.

I understand the pride fans feel with Dach being a 18-19 year old in the NHL. Especially compared to turcotte, byram, and others. They feel vindicated every time they bring it up. But that doesn’t mean others won’t be better, but then again they may not. All Dach has on the others right now is he’s an NHLer. That’s not insignificant in the here and now, but long term, it doesn’t mean a thing. Also, just like turcotte and byram are behind Dach in terms of development and nhl time, saying Dach will be better than Suzuki at 21 is purely speculation as well.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:30 a.m.
#46
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Again, a big reason I didn’t bring up zegras was because he was never going that high. Yes, I would have loved turcotte, but byram was the realistic one I desperately wanted. Zegras is gonna be special though.

I understand the pride fans feel with Dach being a 18-19 year old in the NHL. Especially compared to turcotte, byram, and others. They feel vindicated every time they bring it up. But that doesn’t mean others won’t be better, but then again they may not. All Dach has on the others right now is he’s an NHLer. That’s not insignificant in the here and now, but long term, it doesn’t mean a thing. Also, just like turcotte and byram are behind Dach in terms of development and nhl time, saying Dach will be better than Suzuki at 21 is purely speculation as well.


Dach had the skills to be a NHL player right after the draft whereas Suzuki stumbled from the prior year and Byram didn't look great both in the juniors against kids. Turcotte struggled against playing with bigger more fully grown young men in the NCAA. Both leagues are 2 big steps down from the NHL. There's your comparisons all at the same age.

Dach is going to be a very special player and willing to bet quite a bit he's got the best chance to reach his ceiling (The Athletic agrees) and not just because of his size. We will see of course, but for anyone to be down on Dach is just comical. 28 other teams would have loved to have taken him in the draft as was reported by even the Avs who the GM there is kind of one of the top 5 if not top 3 GMs in the league.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:31 a.m.
#47
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Quoting: ChiHawk
He's snake bit because he didn't want Dach and the Hawks still too him.

I work for a company of 15,000 employees and love it when even the janitor thinks he's a better then our CEO that is pulling down $10M a year and has doubled the size of the company in the last 7 years because the CEO complained the floors were dirty in the lobby. The company's stock could double and the CEO could give everyone a 25% raise and still the receptionist at the front desk thinks she's a better CEO because she doesn't like the way the CEO doesn't greet everyone every time he walks through the lobby.


Using your rational though, the ceo would have to have a spotless record, which anyone with half their wits about them can see stan doesn’t. I don’t mind being insulted for thinking I know better, but stan hasn’t done a damn thing in the time I’ve been here to “grow” the team, “raise” the wages, or whatever else there is. I’m not rooting against stan or Dach, I wanna be wrong. Stan still has yet to do that though, and all Dach has down is prove he belongs in the league, which isn’t insignificant but rather good. I just don’t think he’s the “next toews” who will bring us cups. But again, I’d love to be wrong.
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:35 a.m.
#48
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Quoting: HatterTParty
I actually don’t have high standards for him, that’s just what it would for me to come around on him. What I expect is significantly less honestly.


I mean if a 3rd overall draft pick turns into a 60point per year center, that's a success.
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Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:37 a.m.
#49
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Using your rational though, the ceo would have to have a spotless record, which anyone with half their wits about them can see stan doesn’t. I don’t mind being insulted for thinking I know better, but stan hasn’t done a damn thing in the time I’ve been here to “grow” the team, “raise” the wages, or whatever else there is. I’m not rooting against stan or Dach, I wanna be wrong. Stan still has yet to do that though, and all Dach has down is prove he belongs in the league, which isn’t insignificant but rather good. I just don’t think he’s the “next toews” who will bring us cups. But again, I’d love to be wrong.


No, no CEO or GM has a spotless record. The problem is, people within the organization are going to pick apart every single move the top dogs make because they are layers below them. I'm not fan of Stan Bowman, but the Dach pick was dead on the right move. You are snakebit on Dach and the Hawks in general which I see every day at work with people multiple layers removed that never help a executive leadership position or even senior leadership position. Stan's job isn't easy, just like any CEO's job isn't easy, and people say "well they make a lot of money" they do but doesn't make the job any easier. They should be good because what they make but they will for sure make errors....even Steve Jobs and Bill Gates made plenty of errors. The issue is when their batting ratio "so to speak" isn't better then getting on base 60% of the time and can't hit home runs. That's where Stan's problem is; he hasn't many home runs so I am not fan of his, however I'm not blind to see that Dach was the right pick at #3
Oct. 29, 2020 at 2:40 a.m.
#50
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Quoting: ChiHawk
He's snake bit because he didn't want Dach and the Hawks still too him.

I work for a company of 15,000 employees and love it when even the janitor thinks he's a better then our CEO that is pulling down $10M a year and has doubled the size of the company in the last 7 years because the CEO complained the floors were dirty in the lobby. The company's stock could double and the CEO could give everyone a 25% raise and still the receptionist at the front desk thinks she's a better CEO because she doesn't like the way the CEO doesn't greet everyone every time he walks through the lobby.


Lol at the CEO comments.

I'm not going to lie but I didn't really want Dach that much but we were supposed to draft like 14/15th overall or something in that range and we got lucky and moved to 3rd and we got a great prospect who looked very solid as an 18yo rookie. I am super happy with that pick and think that Dach showed signs of becoming an elite center. Now of course that may never happen but that's the gamble with prospects and I definitely don't want to sell him now.
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