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Are these fair trades to everyone

Created by: HatterTParty
Team: 2020-21 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 29, 2020
Published: Oct. 30, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Again, for everyone who says “it won’t happen,” is this fair? That is all, is it fair. Everyone be civil and don’t disrespect anybody in my threads.

Chicago, Calgary, and philly is a three way trade. Calgary gets Kane, philly gets Gaudreau, hawks get (from Calgary) Valimaki, a 1st (lottery protected) and a 3rd, and (from Philly) Frost, Raffl, and a 2nd.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$3,000,000
Trades
1.
CHI
  1. Gaudreau, Johnny
  2. Välimäki, Juuso
  3. 2021 1st round pick (CGY)
  4. 2022 3rd round pick (CGY)
2.
CHI
  1. Buchnevich, Pavel
  2. Kravtsov, Vitali
  3. Smith, Brendan
  4. 2021 1st round pick (NYR)
  5. 2022 2nd round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Toews, Jonathan ($3,000,000 retained)
3.
CHI
  1. Frost, Morgan
  2. Raffl, Michael
  3. 2021 2nd round pick (PHI)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the NYR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CHI
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
26$81,500,000$64,856,313$1,090,244$6,325,000$16,643,687
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$6,400,000$6,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Rangers
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,700,000$3,700,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
C, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the New York Rangers
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$1,200,000$1,200,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$863,333$863,333
C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$562,500$562,500
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$950,000$950,000
C
UFA - 1
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$725,000$725,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$5,538,462$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$894,166$894,166 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
LD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,850,000$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$850,000$850,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,200,000$3,200,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$4,550,000$4,550,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,900,000$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the New York Rangers
$4,350,000$4,350,000
LD/RD, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LW, C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$6,875,000$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Oct. 30, 2020 at 12:58 a.m.
#1
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Far too much for Calgary to give up, especially with nothing retained
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:05 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: Alfie11
Far too much for Calgary to give up, especially with nothing retained


What do think, take out the 3rd?
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:06 a.m.
#3
J. Toller
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This is CapFriendly. No matter how much you try everyone berates you for existing.

But regarding the trades, Calgary's 1st round pick should be conditional (if those still exist due to the new CBA), whereas if Calgary misses the 2021 playoffs, they have the option to keep their 2021 1st and give up a 2022 1st.
Chicago might want a bit more of a return for Toews and Gaudreau.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:11 a.m.
#4
Am Yisrael Chai
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Rangers aren't interested in Toews or Kane trades.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:16 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: JToller1
This is CapFriendly. No matter how much you try everyone berates you for existing.

But regarding the trades, Calgary's 1st round pick should be conditional (if those still exist due to the new CBA), whereas if Calgary misses the 2021 playoffs, they have the option to keep their 2021 1st and give up a 2022 1st.
Chicago might want a bit more of a return for Toews and Gaudreau.


First off, I get that people would do that, but typically if you do, I just block you.

Regarding the trades, I did emphasize that Calgary’s first was lottery protected in the description. Also, for toews, I kinda tried to make the deal fair on both sides. A 1st and 2nd are a good start, and kravtsov is looking lights out in Russia. Smith makes the cap more even and buch is expendable and entering his prime. Gaudreau is a little interesting but I definitely modeled this trade after the Sakic three way trade a few years ago. Essentially, Kane fetches a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd along with valimaki, frost, and a year of raffl.

I just really didn’t wanna borderline rip off any teams. Do you think they’re fair?
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:17 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Rangers aren't interested in Toews or Kane trades.


I believe that, but I’m only asking if they’re fair, like I said in the description.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:25 a.m.
#7
J. Toller
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Quoting: HatterTParty
I believe that, but I’m only asking if they’re fair, like I said in the description.


I believe so. Better than what I could have come up with
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:25 a.m.
#8
Am Yisrael Chai
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Quoting: HatterTParty
I believe that, but I’m only asking if they’re fair, like I said in the description.


Nope.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:30 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Nope.


Eh, is there any logic behind that or just upset when people make Kane and toews trades with NYR? I’m not criticizing, you’re just not attaching any rational to your statement. If you any, feel free to explain. That’s what we’re here for. No worries if it’s just a no.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:34 a.m.
#10
Am Yisrael Chai
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Eh, is there any logic behind that or just upset when people make Kane and toews trades with NYR? I’m not criticizing, you’re just not attaching any rational to your statement. If you any, feel free to explain. That’s what we’re here for. No worries if it’s just a no.


Personally don't think Toews is worth a package that large considering his age and contract. Especially not from a team that will finish in the lottery again.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:45 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Personally don't think Toews is worth a package that large considering his age and contract. Especially not from a team that will finish in the lottery again.


You really don’t think the rangers can be a playoff team this year? Honest question. I think you guys look very strong. That 1st is definitely lottery protected that 2nd can be conditional. But the issue comes when you factor in toews being a 3 time champion on a huge contract. I do get wanting to just keep following the process, but toews is someone you need. I’m really surprised you guys didn’t get a center with that second 1st this year.

Either way, trading a captain is always gonna cost a little more. Plus, I am retaining on him and he still hasn’t declined. He looked great in the playoffs. I do completely get that you don’t want toews or even Kane, but Toews still has value with retention. I may need to remove a pick, but I was hoping taking back smith might have warranted another pick.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:46 a.m.
#12
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Yeah no chance Flames touch that
Oct. 30, 2020 at 1:56 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Yeah no chance Flames touch that


Because? Or just because?
Oct. 30, 2020 at 2:05 a.m.
#14
Am Yisrael Chai
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Edited Oct. 30, 2020 at 2:12 a.m.
Quoting: HatterTParty
You really don’t think the rangers can be a playoff team this year? Honest question. I think you guys look very strong. That 1st is definitely lottery protected that 2nd can be conditional. But the issue comes when you factor in toews being a 3 time champion on a huge contract. I do get wanting to just keep following the process, but toews is someone you need. I’m really surprised you guys didn’t get a center with that second 1st this year.

Either way, trading a captain is always gonna cost a little more. Plus, I am retaining on him and he still hasn’t declined. He looked great in the playoffs. I do completely get that you don’t want toews or even Kane, but Toews still has value with retention. I may need to remove a pick, but I was hoping taking back smith might have warranted another pick.


First off, I appreciate you're professionalism and I may have came off a little too strong and could've been more transparent on my reasoning. I totally agree with the potential ask for Toews considering the additional salary retention and Lottery Protections. Yes, I was a full supporter for them to take a Center preferably Hendrix Lapierre at #22 but they felt there was a better fit with Schneider. Personally disagree with the decision but I like the player so there isn't a lot to be disappointed by.

I personally don't see the Rangers being good at all. I think we'll be bad. Not just a playoff miss but a yet another lottery year. The Front Office has depleted an already brutal defense and the team is very young and inexperienced. Having a rookie as a starter with a defense that is this bad is not a recipe for consistency and sustainable success. This is why I think this trade is detrimental to us and in some instances the Blackhawks as well. If this we're to happen it wouldn't fix our defensive issues and that condition to defer the pick is not something I would love if I was a hawks fan. Even though the 2022 draft is the best draft since 2003 and 2015, or at least believed to be that good, it will only delay the process to rebound.

I compare us to this past year's Winnipeg Jets. Incredible offensive pieces. Great goaltending. No center depth on than their 1C's and bad defense with some outliers.

By offensive pieces:
WPG: Laine, Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Roslovic, etc.
NYR: Lafreniere, Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Kakko, etc.

by goaltending:
WPG: Hellebuyck
NYR: Shesterkin

No center depth:
WPG: Schifele, Little(INJ), Copp, Lowry
NYR: Zibanejad,Strome,Howden,McKegg,Chytil

Bad defense( More so unfinished) filled by:
WPG: Kulikov, Bitetto, a Rookie Heinola, a newbie Pionk, Niku.
NYR: Staal, Smith, Trouba in his first year, DeAngelo, and Hajek
Oct. 30, 2020 at 2:14 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Because? Or just because?


The difference between a 27 year old Gaudreau at <7M and a 32 year old Kane at >10M is way less than that.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 2:20 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
The difference between a 27 year old Gaudreau at <7M and a 32 year old Kane at >10M is way less than that.


But Gaudreau is going to philly. Like I said in the description. Plus, isn’t Gaudreau leaving Calgary always a thing?
Oct. 30, 2020 at 2:25 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: HatterTParty
But Gaudreau is going to philly. Like I said in the description. Plus, isn’t Gaudreau leaving Calgary always a thing?


What does Philly receiving Gaudreau here have anything to do with Calgary getting fleeced?
Oct. 30, 2020 at 3:16 a.m.
#18
What in tarnation
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Nah. The difference between Kane and Gaudreau is not essentially two first rounders. Kane would fill the hole Gaudreau would leave, but it doesn't really change the way the team is going. Both of those players are wingers with unlimited amount of skill but with some shortage in their defensive game. Gaudreau's 27 and has two years left, Kane is 31 with 3 years left, and he also costs $4M more than Gaudreau does. I don't necessarily see a lot of value difference between these two. Think Gaudreau+Ryan+2nd for Kane would be the absolute maximum they would offer.

I personally believe though that CGY would be more interested in Toews. I made a post regarding a Toews trade between these two teams, where CHI received Hanifin+Rittich+Pelletier+Zagidulin+1st in exchange to Toews(50% salary retained)+Delia+Hagel+2nd. Do you think that is fair? In terms of needs, CGY is in need of a playoff experienced TOP6 Center...

As for the NYR trade, it's also bit excessive in terms of value. Buchnevich, two first round pick equivalents and a cap dump...salty price to pay for a 32 year old C...

Gaudreau to Philly makes sense, but naturally the other team must take some salary in because PHI can't afford making this move otherwise.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 3:58 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
First off, I appreciate you're professionalism and I may have came off a little too strong and could've been more transparent on my reasoning. I totally agree with the potential ask for Toews considering the additional salary retention and Lottery Protections. Yes, I was a full supporter for them to take a Center preferably Hendrix Lapierre at #22 but they felt there was a better fit with Schneider. Personally disagree with the decision but I like the player so there isn't a lot to be disappointed by.

I personally don't see the Rangers being good at all. I think we'll be bad. Not just a playoff miss but a yet another lottery year. The Front Office has depleted an already brutal defense and the team is very young and inexperienced. Having a rookie as a starter with a defense that is this bad is not a recipe for consistency and sustainable success. This is why I think this trade is detrimental to us and in some instances the Blackhawks as well. If this we're to happen it wouldn't fix our defensive issues and that condition to defer the pick is not something I would love if I was a hawks fan. Even though the 2022 draft is the best draft since 2003 and 2015, or at least believed to be that good, it will only delay the process to rebound.

I compare us to this past year's Winnipeg Jets. Incredible offensive pieces. Great goaltending. No center depth on than their 1C's and bad defense with some outliers.

By offensive pieces:
WPG: Laine, Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Roslovic, etc.
NYR: Lafreniere, Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Kakko, etc.

by goaltending:
WPG: Hellebuyck
NYR: Shesterkin

No center depth:
WPG: Schifele, Little(INJ), Copp, Lowry
NYR: Zibanejad,Strome,Howden,McKegg,Chytil

Bad defense( More so unfinished) filled by:
WPG: Kulikov, Bitetto, a Rookie Heinola, a newbie Pionk, Niku.
NYR: Staal, Smith, Trouba in his first year, DeAngelo, and Hajek


Staal isn't on the team anymore. Smith would be included in this trade as a cap dump (which costs).

Also comparing Shesterkin to Hellebuyck is very optimistic
Oct. 30, 2020 at 3:59 a.m.
#20
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
The difference between a 27 year old Gaudreau at <7M and a 32 year old Kane at >10M is way less than that.


It's hard to say that because are you getting the 58 points in 70 games Gaudreau or the 99 points in 82 game Gaudreau?

Regardless, with Kane you know that you are getting the elite version
Oct. 30, 2020 at 4:01 a.m.
#21
Am Yisrael Chai
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
Staal isn't on the team anymore. Smith would be included in this trade as a cap dump (which costs).

Also comparing Shesterkin to Hellebuyck is very optimistic


Right my bad. I was comparing 2019 Jets to Rangers currently. Shesterkin won't be as good as Hellebuyck but what I'm comparing are strengths and weaknesses.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 4:03 a.m.
#22
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Right my bad. I was comparing 2019 Jets to Rangers currently. Shesterkin won't be as good as Hellebuyck but what I'm comparing are strengths and weaknesses.


I think you are underrating the Rangers. I can see why you guys wouldn't want Toews but I think that the Rangers are going to be a legit team next year.

I will say that veterans have become under appreciated
Oct. 30, 2020 at 4:14 a.m.
#23
Am Yisrael Chai
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
I think you are underrating the Rangers. I can see why you guys wouldn't want Toews but I think that the Rangers are going to be a legit team next year.

I will say that veterans have become under appreciated


What makes you think that? I'm just being realistic and modest. Everyone thought we we're going to beat the Hurricanes and I tried to tell people about our defensive issues. No one listened. This defense is even worse than last years. I strongly disagree we'll be good. Look at the 2019 Jets for example. They got the 10th pick with a similar roster but more seasoned players.
Oct. 30, 2020 at 4:15 a.m.
#24
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
It's hard to say that because are you getting the 58 points in 70 games Gaudreau or the 99 points in 82 game Gaudreau?

Regardless, with Kane you know that you are getting the elite version


In Kanes 6th NHL season (this was Gaudreaus 6th) he had 66 points in 82 games. Both players have been ppg players their entire career and play extremely similar game styles. Coincidentally enough the following season that year was the semi lock-out where Kane got 55 points in 47 games, and this season looks likely to be a shortened one as well. I think it is a pretty safe bet to say Gaudreau will bounce back to around a ppg
Oct. 30, 2020 at 5:14 a.m.
#25
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
In Kanes 6th NHL season (this was Gaudreaus 6th) he had 66 points in 82 games. Both players have been ppg players their entire career and play extremely similar game styles. Coincidentally enough the following season that year was the semi lock-out where Kane got 55 points in 47 games, and this season looks likely to be a shortened one as well. I think it is a pretty safe bet to say Gaudreau will bounce back to around a ppg


Kane actually had the 55 points in 47 games in his 6th season. Also Gaudreau is a couple years older in his 6th NHL season as Kane was in his 6th NHL season.

Truthfully, I don't think that linearly comparing their production to date and predicting the future based on their careers is an accurate way of measuring value because part of what made Kane an elite player was how he's elevated his game later in his career.

I like Gaudreau and don't really see the point of this trade for Calgary but I doubt he has the second half of his career like Kane.
 
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