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marner vatanen

Created by: nhn1405
Team: 2020-21 Columbus Blue Jackets
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 10, 2020
Published: Nov. 10, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
didnt set lines cause im not really familiar with cbj
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$7,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,400,000
1$3,000,000
Trades
TOR
  1. Jones, Seth
  2. Nash, Riley
  3. 2021 3rd round pick (CBJ)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
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2022
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$81,500,000$67,437,125$0$250,000$14,062,875
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$1,325,000$1,325,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$5,875,000$5,875,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$3,750,000$3,750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$7,000,000$7,000,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,375,000$1,375,000
LW, C, RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$975,000$975,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,500,000$1,500,000 (Performance Bonus$250,000$250K)
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$874,125$874,125
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$897,500$897,500
LW, C, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,200,000$1,200,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,062,500$1,062,500
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$4,000,000$4,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$2,800,000$2,800,000
LD
UFA - 3
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$2,800,000$2,800,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,633,333$1,633,333
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,650,000$1,650,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$725,000$725,000
LD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$5,850,000$5,850,000
C, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:11 p.m.
#1
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u could just do jones for marner 1 for 1
Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:17 p.m.
#2
Xx_Zegras46_xX
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I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:17 p.m.
#3
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I thought we were done with these?
Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:19 p.m.
#4
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner

I second
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:19 p.m.
#5
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: lebronisdagoat
u could just do jones for marner 1 for 1


Jones provides more to Columbus than Marner/ Vat would IMO
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:26 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I thought we were done with these?


I did too... or at least I was hoping we were...
Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:41 p.m.
#7
What in tarnation
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In a Marner-Jones swap it'll be TOR who adds. And quite significantly I might add, since Jones is twice cheaper and better than Marner is.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:45 p.m.
#8
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner


By a mile. It isn’t remotely close.
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 4:59 p.m.
#9
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Edited Nov. 10, 2020 at 5:12 p.m.
Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner


Quoting: Bcarlo25
By a mile. It isn’t remotely close.


--------------------------------------------------------------------Last 82 games - All Situations--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------PLAYER----AGE---------TIME-ON-ICE----GOALS/ASSISTS/POINTS---TAKEAWAYS/BLOCKS----(signing year & years left)---------
--------Pastrnak (23-24yrs) - 1499:25:00 TOI | 55g - 38a1 - 17a2 - 110p | 53 TA | 23 BLK | (s. 2017) $6.666Mx3 (21-27yrs)-------
---------Panarin (28-29yrs) - 1661:31:00 TOI | 35g - 45a1 - 29a2 - 109p | 62 TA | 18 BLK | (s. 2019) $11.643Mx6 (28-35yrs)------
------Marchand (30-31yrs) - 1584:28:00 TOI | 36g - 41a1 - 29a2 - 106p | 49 TA | 21 BLK | (s. 2017) $6.125Mx5 (29-37yrs)--------
-------Kucherov (25-26yrs) - 1580:27:00 TOI | 43g - 30a1 - 32a2 - 105p | 42 TA | 23 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.500Mx7 (26-34yrs)-------
------Huberdeau (25-26yrs) - 1539:30:00 TOI | 29g - 48a1 - 34a2 - 96p | 50 TA | 30 BLK | (s. 2017) $5.900Mx3 (24-30yrs)---------
---------------Kane (30-31yrs) - 1767:21:00 TOI | 36g - 39a1 - 20a2 - 95p | 48 TA | 20 BLK | (s. 2015) $10.500Mx3 (27-35yrs)------
-----------Marner (21-22yrs) - 1734:42:00 TOI | 21g - 47a1 - 24a2 - 92p | 87 TA | 49 BLK | (s. 2019) $10.893Mx5 (22-28yrs)------
-------------Stone (26-27yrs) - 1561:19:00 TOI | 25g - 30a1 - 18a2 - 73p | 109 TA | 67 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.500Mx7 (27-35yrs)-------
-------Rantanen (22-23yrs) - 1624:00:00 TOI | 35g - 23a1 - 14a2 - 72p | 56 TA | 41 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.250Mx5 (23-29yrs)--------
--------Some of these guys signed deals THEN broke out, Marner skipped that step and was rly good from 19yrs old--------------
-------------------------------------------------------------trading him would be a mistake------------------------------------------------------------------------

idk man, it's hard to compare a dman to a forward, but Marner is by all accounts a core, franchise player, and he's not even in his prime yet. Jones on the other hand is only signed for 2 more years in which he'll need a thicc deal when he's 28-29.

Still, no reason for CBJ to give up jones, he fits their system better, but marner is one of the top wingers in the NHL, he's young and locked up for the next 5 years through his prime. I would prob rather marner at 26 than Jones at 26 (both of course being ridiculously good)
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 5:31 p.m.
#10
Pass it to Lucic
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Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner


why would you...Jones is a way better player and more important to his teams success.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 5:45 p.m.
#11
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
--------------------------------------------------------------------Last 82 games - All Situations--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------PLAYER----AGE---------TIME-ON-ICE----GOALS/ASSISTS/POINTS---TAKEAWAYS/BLOCKS----(signing year & years left)---------
--------Pastrnak (23-24yrs) - 1499:25:00 TOI | 55g - 38a1 - 17a2 - 110p | 53 TA | 23 BLK | (s. 2017) $6.666Mx3 (21-27yrs)-------
---------Panarin (28-29yrs) - 1661:31:00 TOI | 35g - 45a1 - 29a2 - 109p | 62 TA | 18 BLK | (s. 2019) $11.643Mx6 (28-35yrs)------
------Marchand (30-31yrs) - 1584:28:00 TOI | 36g - 41a1 - 29a2 - 106p | 49 TA | 21 BLK | (s. 2017) $6.125Mx5 (29-37yrs)--------
-------Kucherov (25-26yrs) - 1580:27:00 TOI | 43g - 30a1 - 32a2 - 105p | 42 TA | 23 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.500Mx7 (26-34yrs)-------
------Huberdeau (25-26yrs) - 1539:30:00 TOI | 29g - 48a1 - 34a2 - 96p | 50 TA | 30 BLK | (s. 2017) $5.900Mx3 (24-30yrs)---------
---------------Kane (30-31yrs) - 1767:21:00 TOI | 36g - 39a1 - 20a2 - 95p | 48 TA | 20 BLK | (s. 2015) $10.500Mx3 (27-35yrs)------
-----------Marner (21-22yrs) - 1734:42:00 TOI | 21g - 47a1 - 24a2 - 92p | 87 TA | 49 BLK | (s. 2019) $10.893Mx5 (22-28yrs)------
-------------Stone (26-27yrs) - 1561:19:00 TOI | 25g - 30a1 - 18a2 - 73p | 109 TA | 67 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.500Mx7 (27-35yrs)-------
-------Rantanen (22-23yrs) - 1624:00:00 TOI | 35g - 23a1 - 14a2 - 72p | 56 TA | 41 BLK | (s. 2019) $9.250Mx5 (23-29yrs)--------
--------Some of these guys signed deals THEN broke out, Marner skipped that step and was rly good from 19yrs old--------------
-------------------------------------------------------------trading him would be a mistake------------------------------------------------------------------------

idk man, it's hard to compare a dman to a forward, but Marner is by all accounts a core, franchise player, and he's not even in his prime yet. Jones on the other hand is only signed for 2 more years in which he'll need a thicc deal when he's 28-29.

Still, no reason for CBJ to give up jones, he fits their system better, but marner is one of the top wingers in the NHL, he's young and locked up for the next 5 years through his prime. I would prob rather marner at 26 than Jones at 26 (both of course being ridiculously good)


Especially difficult to compare them when just looking at charts and graphs.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 5:55 p.m.
#12
train, train
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Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
I’m gonna get crucified for this but

Jones > Marner


Yes I agree with you but with a caveat that I'm sure you've already taken into account but this is for those who'll cry blasphemy at your argument:

1) the cap hit of Marner is double that of Jones'. Regardless of whether or not someone thinks Marner is better or Jones is better, Marner is definitely not twice the player Jones is.
2) less importantly, #1 dmen, especially young ones, are more valued than top-tier young wingers.

If they both had the exact same deal, it would be a wash in terms of which player's better and who someone would choose for their team based on the respective team's needs.
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Nov. 10, 2020 at 5:56 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
Especially difficult to compare them when just looking at charts and graphs.


well, the point of the chart was to illustrate how close marner is (and how much better defensively) marner is than a lot of those franchise players. You simply don't trade guys in that category, it rarely ever happens, and if it does, it likely becomes a disaster. Esp when you have a young kid who has 161 points in his last 141 games (11th in the NHL among all players) who's signed for 5 more seasons - the leafs would be abysmally wrong to trade a guy like that
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:00 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: HadesOfSoCal
Jones > Marner


Very much so. Marner is a really nice winger, but Jones is a #1D. Like what people want as a #1D. Marner is also not a "good" contract.

Jones for Marner ++, not Marner for Jones +
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:02 p.m.
#15
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
well, the point of the chart was to illustrate how close marner is (and how much better defensively) marner is than a lot of those franchise players. You simply don't trade guys in that category, it rarely ever happens, and if it does, it likely becomes a disaster. Esp when you have a young kid who has 161 points in his last 141 games (11th in the NHL among all players) who's signed for 5 more seasons - the leafs would be abysmally wrong to trade a guy like that


How does the chart show he’s good defensively?

Also, his contract stinks out loud. They’d be real lucky to get a decent return for him.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:06 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
How does the chart show he’s good defensively?

Also, his contract stinks out loud. They’d be real lucky to get a decent return for him.


He plays on the penalty kill, as almost as many takeaways as mark stone, lots of shot blocks. If you watch him play he's a great defensively responsible winger

Also, his contract doesn't stink lmao, he's owed only 8 million dollars for the last 3 years of the deal, something that would be a steal in an economically struggling league (with teams on internal cap)

also, who would you argue his closest comparable is? Rantanen at 9.25? He eclipses him in point totals and he's a year younger, keeping in mind that Rantanen is more of a goal scorer where as marner is more of a playmaker. Marner is overpaid a little bit at 10.893 but by the time he's in his mid 20s with the cap rising by a few million, he's likely had a few 100+ point seasons under his belt, at that point he's not overpaid at all
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:14 p.m.
#17
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
He plays on the penalty kill, as almost as many takeaways as mark stone, lots of shot blocks. If you watch him play he's a great defensively responsible winger

Also, his contract doesn't stink lmao, he's owed only 8 million dollars for the last 3 years of the deal, something that would be a steal in an economically struggling league (with teams on internal cap)

also, who would you argue his closest comparable is? Rantanen at 9.25? He eclipses him in point totals and he's a year younger, keeping in mind that Rantanen is more of a goal scorer where as marner is more of a playmaker. Marner is overpaid a little bit at 10.893 but by the time he's in his mid 20s with the cap rising by a few million, he's likely had a few 100+ point seasons under his belt, at that point he's not overpaid at all


Note I’m not saying that marner is bad defensively. Your charts don’t show crap about defensive play though. That said, you’re over hyping the player. He’s a solid top line winger. Rantanen is a solid comparable, but he got more term. If Marner got 8 years at that figure, it would still be kinda bad. 6 years at that is one of Dubas many horror shows.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:17 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Bcarlo25
Note I’m not saying that marner is bad defensively. Your charts don’t show crap about defensive play though. That said, you’re over hyping the player. He’s a solid top line winger. Rantanen is a solid comparable, but he got more term. If Marner got 8 years at that figure, it would still be kinda bad. 6 years at that is one of Dubas many horror shows.


Rantanen got the same term as Marner did, 6 years. Esp considering taxes are higher in ontario, and that Marner simply puts up more points etc., 10.893 isn't that big an overpay. Even if he got 9.5 or 9.8, that's like one extra 700k roster player. Barely important at all
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:21 p.m.
#19
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
Rantanen got the same term as Marner did, 6 years. Esp considering taxes are higher in ontario, and that Marner simply puts up more points etc., 10.893 isn't that big an overpay. Even if he got 9.5 or 9.8, that's like one extra 700k roster player. Barely important at all


Rantanen didn’t get 8 years? Nevermind then, marner’s contract is only kinda bad instead of funny bad.
Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:26 p.m.
#20
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Edited Nov. 10, 2020 at 6:32 p.m.
Quoting: Bcarlo25
That said, you’re over hyping the player. He’s a solid top line winger.


More points than Eichel, Ovi, Point, Aho, Kopitar, Barzal over the last 2 seasons. Behind only Draisaitl, McDavid, Kuch, Kane, MacKinnon, Marchand, Panarin, Pasta, Huberdeau, and Stamkos, with 10-20 less GP than almost all those guys.

The only guy with more primary assists in the entire league was McDavid over the last two seasons (again, marner has less GP than everybody below him)

Look at 5v5 primary assists, he's tied for first with Panarin over the last two years, 7 more than McDavid. 10th overall in 5v5 points over the last 2 seasons (with 5-15 less GP than everybody above him).

He's also the youngest player in the top 20. Every single other guy is at least a year (in some cases, many many years) older than him

He's a LITTLE bit more than a "solid top line winger". He's a franchise player and one of the best wingers in the league.

You could argue it's the guys he plays with, but Kapanen who all of a sudden is a top line player in pittsburgh mustered 44 points playing most of the season with Auston Matthews in 18-19, not exactly stellar, marner had 94 playing with Tavares, and was on pace for 98 (after our coaching change) with Tavares/Matthews this year. Even if you don't consider the coaching change, he was on pace for 92. He also miraculously gives every centre he plays with a career year (Kadri x2, Tavares, Matthews). He's a top tier, franchise level playmaker
Nov. 10, 2020 at 7:00 p.m.
#21
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
More points than Eichel, Ovi, Point, Aho, Kopitar, Barzal over the last 2 seasons. Behind only Draisaitl, McDavid, Kuch, Kane, MacKinnon, Marchand, Panarin, Pasta, Huberdeau, and Stamkos, with 10-20 less GP than almost all those guys.

The only guy with more primary assists in the entire league was McDavid over the last two seasons (again, marner has less GP than everybody below him)

Look at 5v5 primary assists, he's tied for first with Panarin over the last two years, 7 more than McDavid. 10th overall in 5v5 points over the last 2 seasons (with 5-15 less GP than everybody above him).

He's also the youngest player in the top 20. Every single other guy is at least a year (in some cases, many many years) older than him

He's a LITTLE bit more than a "solid top line winger". He's a franchise player and one of the best wingers in the league.

You could argue it's the guys he plays with, but Kapanen who all of a sudden is a top line player in pittsburgh mustered 44 points playing most of the season with Auston Matthews in 18-19, not exactly stellar, marner had 94 playing with Tavares, and was on pace for 98 (after our coaching change) with Tavares/Matthews this year. Even if you don't consider the coaching change, he was on pace for 92. He also miraculously gives every centre he plays with a career year (Kadri x2, Tavares, Matthews). He's a top tier, franchise level playmaker


What I’m going to look at is him playing hockey. He’s several, several steps below a franchise level player.

Now, if we’re talking fantasy hockey, you might have your guy.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 4:38 p.m.
#22
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why does everyone love Jones so much on this site? If he was a leaf EVERYONE would say hes overrated, and he IS overrated
 
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