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Forums/Armchair-GM

Fair Jones Trade

Created by: Leafs4life34
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 10, 2020
Published: Nov. 11, 2020
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
TOR
  1. Jones, Seth ($875,000 retained)
  2. Nash, Riley ($1,375,000 retained)
Retained Salary Transactions
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$81,474,741$0$0$25,259
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,645,000$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$1,375,000$1,375,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$700,000$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$4,525,000$4,525,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,650,000$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$874,125$874,125
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1

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Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:07 a.m.
#1
Try to be real
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Fair Jones trade would be....nothing cause Columbus isn’t trying to trade him
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:07 a.m.
#2
Hockee
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Lmfao. Jones is the most overrated defenseman in the NHL. He was as impactful as Justin Holl in 19-20
He not worth even a quarter of what the Leafs are giving up here
GenXHockey and GMRyan liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:09 a.m.
#3
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Would you accept Foudy, Bemstrom, Savard, Nash, and a 2nd for Matthews and kerfoot both with retention?
ovandatsyuk13 and justaBoss liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:10 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: deys3232
Lmfao. Jones is the most overrated defenseman in the NHL. He was as impactful as Justin Holl in 19-20
He not worth even a quarter of what the Leafs are giving up here


This is why no one takes you serious because you make stupid comments like this
Copenhagen, ovandatsyuk13, mhockey91 and 4 others liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:11 a.m.
#5
Hockee
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is why no one takes you serious because you make stupid comments like this


Its not even stupid. I have stats to prove it if you want
GenXHockey liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:12 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: deys3232
Its not even stupid. I have stats to prove it if you want


I have those exact same stats but Advanced Stats only say about 30% of the story. Eye test says Jones is easily a top 10 defenseman in the league
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:13 a.m.
#7
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is why no one takes you serious because you make stupid comments like this


I don't know about the Holl thing, but he is right in that Jones is by far the most overrated Dman in the league. He is the king of doing stuff that looks really good on the surface but ultimately leads to nothing. It is no coincidence that all of the Leafs offense in their series came when he was on the ice. Both a careful eye test and analytics support this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:14 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: deys3232
Lmfao. Jones is the most overrated defenseman in the NHL. He was as impactful as Justin Holl in 19-20
He not worth even a quarter of what the Leafs are giving up here


Someone obviously hasn't watched Jones play, or if you have and legitimately think he's as good as Holl you need to rethink you're ability to discern what makes a player impactful
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Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:15 a.m.
#9
STL
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Quoting: deys3232
Its not even stupid. I have stats to prove it if you want


deys3232 deys3232 deys3232 just trying to implant in my mind to never take you seriously going forward
theBeer_Leaguer, Ajp_18, mhockey91 and 3 others liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:16 a.m.
#10
Hockee
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I have those exact same stats but Advanced Stats only say about 30% of the story. Eye test says Jones is easily a top 10 defenseman in the league


Not really, Ive watched a ton of Jones film recently to see what makes him look so good. Here are my obervations
-He allows everyone to enter the zone
-He is big and hits in corners
-He does not break up passes/allows everyone to make plays
-He is always scrambling in the D-Zone and happens to get a ton of blocks because he is always scrambling
-He has a great skater who is good in transition/bringing the puck up the ice
-He lets Werenski create offense. Hes very passive offensively, occasionally using his big shot to take a slapper set up by a team mate
-Chills at the blueline and looks like he is doing something
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:18 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: deys3232
Its not even stupid. I have stats to prove it if you want


You should definitely keep Holl and the Jackets should keep Jones because thats what your stats say.
Ps you should watch hockey sometime, like an actual game.
mhockey91 and mokumboi liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:19 a.m.
#12
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Let’s please just not do this.... this is why people hate leaf fans... making trade for players who aren’t going to be moved and then others complains about said same player sucking in a never ending cycle.
Copenhagen, ovandatsyuk13, justaBoss and 2 others liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:19 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Random2152
I don't know about the Holl thing, but he is right in that Jones is by far the most overrated Dman in the league. He is the king of doing stuff that looks really good on the surface but ultimately leads to nothing. It is no coincidence that all of the Leafs offense in their series came when he was on the ice. Both a careful eye test and analytics support this.


This is flawed because that's almost exactly what didn't happen. Jones was paired up against Toronto's top line almost every time they touched the ice, that was Torts plan not Keefes. Torts purposely put Jones out there whenever Toronto's top line was on the ice. Especially in game 5 when Toronto ran the 34M line and got shut out.
ovandatsyuk13 liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:19 a.m.
#14
Hockee
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Quoting: theBeer_Leaguer
Someone obviously hasn't watched Jones play, or if you have and legitimately think he's as good as Holl you need to rethink you're ability to discern what makes a player impactful


Yes I have, Ive watch a ton of Jones heres what I learned from analysing ONLY Jones and completely ignoring everything else on the ice

-He allows everyone to enter the zone
-He is big and hits in corners
-He does not break up passes/allows everyone to make plays
-He is always scrambling in the D-Zone and happens to get a ton of blocks because he is always scrambling
-He has a great skater who is good in transition/bringing the puck up the ice
-He lets Werenski create offense. Hes very passive offensively, occasionally using his big shot to take a slapper set up by a team mate
-Chills at the blueline and looks like he is doing something
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:19 a.m.
#15
burn the pegulas
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Quoting: deys3232
Its not even stupid. I have stats to prove it if you want


post the stats i’m so curious to see what backs up this crazy claim
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Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:20 a.m.
#16
Hockee
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is flawed because that's almost exactly what didn't happen. Jones was paired up against Toronto's top line almost every time they touched the ice, that was Torts plan not Keefes. Torts purposely put Jones out there whenever Toronto's top line was on the ice. Especially in game 5 when Toronto ran the 34M line and got shut out.


That was Korpisalo becoming a brick wall and the Leafs having horrible puck luck
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:21 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: Random2152
I don't know about the Holl thing, but he is right in that Jones is by far the most overrated Dman in the league. He is the king of doing stuff that looks really good on the surface but ultimately leads to nothing. It is no coincidence that all of the Leafs offense in their series came when he was on the ice. Both a careful eye test and analytics support this.


Watching that Toronto vs Columbus series I had the exact opposite impression. He does little things defensively that are tough to notice, but are what make him so tough to play against. Really smart, played against the Leafs top players, and just seems so calm and composed on the backend, and never makes defensive errors.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:23 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: deys3232
Not really, Ive watched a ton of Jones film recently to see what makes him look so good. Here are my obervations
-He allows everyone to enter the zone
-He is big and hits in corners
-He does not break up passes/allows everyone to make plays
-He is always scrambling in the D-Zone and happens to get a ton of blocks because he is always scrambling
-He has a great skater who is good in transition/bringing the puck up the ice
-He lets Werenski create offense. Hes very passive offensively, occasionally using his big shot to take a slapper set up by a team mate
-Chills at the blueline and looks like he is doing something


Crazy how if you only look for the flaws in someones game they stand out. Jones is not perfect but he is also one of the least sheltered defenseman in the league. I guess it's jsut a fluke that the 34M line got shut out when matched up the entire game against the AHL caliber defensman Seth Jones
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Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:23 a.m.
#19
train, train
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When Marner for Jones straight up isn't fair what makes you think this is fair? Nylander + a 1st nets you Jones IMO. Maaaaybe a 2nd or a prospect instead of the 1st but Nylander's the base.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:24 a.m.
#20
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For everyone who’s curios, Deys is talking about how Jones’s advanced stats aren’t very good.
C21 liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:25 a.m.
#21
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is flawed because that's almost exactly what didn't happen. Jones was paired up against Toronto's top line almost every time they touched the ice, that was Torts plan not Keefes. Torts purposely put Jones out there whenever Toronto's top line was on the ice. Especially in game 5 when Toronto ran the 34M line and got shut out.


You are correct in that he was hard matched to the top lines. He got caved in. The Leafs as a whole shot 2% that series, that doesn't mean he wasn't bad and gave up a ton to us. The other pairs with Murray, Gavrikov, etc allowed virtually nothing while almost every good chance the Leafs got was with Jones on the ice. He is quite bad defensively.
Now that doesn't mean you cannot be a good dman, so looking at his offensive plays really explains why people think he is better then he is. So often he will make some crazy play and rush the puck out, which is really obvious to a basic eye test and looks fantastic. The key to seeing the issue is to notice what happens after, and the vast majority of the time he takes those insane plays and turns them into nothing. Feel free to go back and watch tape. Focus on what happens to the puck after Jones breaks it out. You'll often see it go harmlessly into the corner or end up with the Leafs breaking back out with numbers.

Tl;dr
He looks really flashy, but it doesn't lead to much
deys3232 liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:25 a.m.
#22
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Quoting: deys3232
Yes I have, Ive watch a ton of Jones heres what I learned from analysing ONLY Jones and completely ignoring everything else on the ice

-He allows everyone to enter the zone
-He is big and hits in corners
-He does not break up passes/allows everyone to make plays
-He is always scrambling in the D-Zone and happens to get a ton of blocks because he is always scrambling
-He has a great skater who is good in transition/bringing the puck up the ice
-He lets Werenski create offense. Hes very passive offensively, occasionally using his big shot to take a slapper set up by a team mate
-Chills at the blueline and looks like he is doing something


Well I guess one of my two earlier statements does hold true then, huh
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:25 a.m.
#23
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is why no one takes you serious because you make stupid comments like this


I have him muted. As soon as I saw you mention him I know the comment is gonna be no good lol
Ledge_And_Dairy liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:26 a.m.
#24
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Quoting: jwg314
deys3232 deys3232 deys3232 just trying to implant in my mind to never take you seriously going forward


Quoting: Copenhagen
You should definitely keep Holl and the Jackets should keep Jones because thats what your stats say.
Ps you should watch hockey sometime, like an actual game.


Quoting: chloewoj
post the stats i’m so curious to see what backs up this crazy claim



Just mute him and save your breath
Copenhagen liked this.
Nov. 11, 2020 at 12:26 a.m.
#25
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Quoting: Ajp_18
For everyone who’s curios, Deys is talking about how Jones’s advanced stats aren’t very good.


Yup and Advanced Stats never tell the whole story. Eye test says Jones is a top 10 defense in the league
Ajp_18, mhockey91 and jwg314 liked this.
 
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