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putting the silly 34 vs mackinnon stuff to bed

Which one?
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:12 p.m.
#26
McDavid GOAT
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So you saw the stupid editor in leaf article were the guy tries to say Matthews is the second best nhl player too? Nice. IMO, mackinnon is the best player in the nhl, but it’s a tossup between him and McDavid. Crosby’s probably 3rd.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:12 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: yikes
I didn’t read all the stats at first cause it looked like so much and I’m tired so I just tossed you a like lol

But objectively Player A does stand out so if that is matthews he definitely earns a convo for top 5 center and he already was top 10-15 player in the league (not saying positions in order just throwing he does have a case to in “your top 10”).


yeah player A is matthews

i wanted to meme people

matthews is so hilariously underrated
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:14 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Saskleaf
So you saw the stupid editor in leaf article were the guy tries to say Matthews is the second best nhl player too? Nice. IMO, mackinnon is the best player in the nhl, but it’s a tossup between him and McDavid. Crosby’s probably 3rd.


I thought the same thing until I compiled that chart

It's a lot closer than many would think lol
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:15 p.m.
#29
Bordeleau for Calder
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Edited Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:22 p.m.
Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
yeah player A is matthews

i wanted to meme people

matthews is so hilariously underrated


Can’t say I gave him a fair shake when coming into this post but I would say if I was comprising a list of top players in the league, he’d be near the top 10-15 if not inside it(top10) and top centres wouldn’t be lower than 8 I’d assume.

I just don’t get that same feeling playing against matthews vs playing against mackinnon/ Mcdavid.
He’s not far from the same feeling but still
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:15 p.m.
#30
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Wait, what? Those stats don't really support what you're saying. I'm not saying Matthews > Mack, but those stats show that it's definitely worth a conversation.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:16 p.m.
#31
Leafs suck
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I love the effort but there is no way and hell I’m reading all that lmao. Just by the eye test u can tell mackinnon is better.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:17 p.m.
#32
McDavid GOAT
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
wondering when y'all are gonna realize that with less ice time and less games played matthews (player A):

scores way more than MacKinnon and at 5v5 even comes with 3-5 points of his totals points
Is way better in the faceoff dot
Has tons more takeaways
Has similar puck possession stats (esp at 5v5)
Has way more shot blocks
Is 2 years younger

matthews is definitely in the running to be similar to mackinnon, esp with his shot and 2 way game - and considering the fact he's 2 years younger he could totally surpass mackinnon one day

Haha and I thought player one was Mackinnon. You fooled me. I think Mack is better right now but Matthews is a top 5 player in the nhl IMO.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:18 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: mauston_atthews
I love the effort but there is no way and hell I’m reading all that lmao. Just by the eye test u can tell mackinnon is better.


Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Wait, what? Those stats don't really support what you're saying. I'm not saying Matthews > Mack, but those stats show that it's definitely worth a conversation.


y'all, this post was a meme, LMAO

I wanted to trick people

matthews is very much in the same conversation as MacKinnon
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:18 p.m.
#34
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Don't mind my last comment, just picked up on the point of this post. Well done.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:20 p.m.
#35
McDavid GOAT
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
I thought the same thing until I compiled that chart

It's a lot closer than many would think lol

Oh it’s close, and 2 years from now we might be saying Matthews>Mackinnon, but right now Mack is better.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:26 p.m.
#36
Bandwagon fairweathe
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Just an opinion, but Mathews doesn’t have the all world speed of mcdavid or mackinnon, that’s the only thing I would take away from Mathews. That’s why I would put him and drai in that 4-8 category. Barzal speed on Mathews if it was video game style and there wouldn’t be a better option.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:28 p.m.
#37
LETS go PENS
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Edited Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:34 p.m.
Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
even when excluding those years, matthews is close. it's all in the stats I left up there


Yes, I would pick player B especially in the section about their last 2 seasons. Like I said, I was gonna say, is the better player in your mind skipping from player A to player B..? And You are conveniently adding in MacKinnon’s average years to most of the lines that “player A” would look better in. And adding in the lower Matthews year in with his better years. I could add some stats to prove MacKinnon being better if we take his last 3 years and Matthews 1st 3. Both have the same Hardware, a Calder, If careers ending today. I’d say McKinnon was the better player. We’ll see in the future. MacKinnon could fall off like he did for those 3 seasons. But so could Matthews. I don’t see it happening either. But I still think Matthews is that tier below. And not knocking him. Splitting hairs, yes, he’s younger still, so we’ll see! And stats don’t tell the WHOLE story. It’s a big part. But, You can see MacKinnon is a better player. I was watching Kovalev highlights acouple days ago and u can just see, he is more skilled than any player on the ice. But his stats didn’t always back that up.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:34 p.m.
#38
The 1 True GM
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
I love 34, but like Matthews is not in the same dimension as MacKinnon. It's McDavid/MacKinnon and everybody else.

To avoid bias, I took out the player names and all y'all leaf fans can hopefully see that, as good as #34 is, he's nothing close to MacKinnon

NOW THAT THE THREAD HAS BLOWN UP ----- MATTHEWS IS PLAYER A

First 4 seasons in the NHL (18-22) i.e. (2013-14 to 2016-17 for Mac) and (2016-17 to 19-20 for Matthews)
Player A: 282gp | 18:47 TOI per game | 158g 80a1 48a2 285p | 1007 shots | 1740 CF | 242 blocks | 218 giveaways | 270 takeaways | 105 hits | 391 hits against | 52% on faceoffs (out of 3651) |
Player B: 300gp | 18:21 TOI per game | 75g 77a1 54a2 206p | 929 shots | 1563 CF | 169 blocks | 150 giveaways | 171 takeaways | 202 hits | 338 hits against | 48% on faceoffs (out of 3448) |

Player A (5v5): 282gp | 15:38 TOI per game | 113g 53a1 24a2 190p | 762 shots | 1321 CF | 225 blocks | 192 giveaways | 254 takeaways | 101 hits | 351 hits against | 52% on faceoffs (out of 3370)
Player B (5v5): 300gp | 14:31 TOI per game | 47g 50a1 37a2 134p | 718 shots | 1192 CF | 150 blocks | 103 giveaways | 155 takeaways | 187 hits | 296 hits against | 47% on faceoffs (out of 2786)

Even if we look at their last 2 seasons
Player A: 138gp | 19:47 TOI per game | 84g 42a1 27a2 153p | 541 shots | 951 CF | 120 blocks | 115 giveaways | 135 takeaways | 68 hits | 187 hits against | 54% on faceoffs (out of 1831)
Player B: 151gp | 21:42 TOI per game | 76g 69a1 47a1 192p | 683 shots | 1141 CF | 62 blocks | 117 giveaways | 135 takeaways | 105 hits | 176 hits against | 43% on faceoffs (out of 2023)

Player A: 138gp | 16:15 TOI per game | 55g 28a1 15a2 98p | 387 shots | 698 CF | 109 blocks | 100 giveaways | 126 takeaways | 65 hits | 163 hits against | 54% on faceoffs (out of 1758)
Player B: 151gp | 16:47 TOI per game | 44g 42a1 18a1 104p | 470 shots | 763 CF | 57 blocks | 90 giveaways | 78 takeaways | 93 hits | 149 hits against | 43% on faceoffs (out of 1792)

Ok but what about this last season? Say, their last 82 games, to round things out?
Player A: Last 82gp | 20:45 TOI per game | 52g 22a1 16a2 90p | 352 shots | 612 CF | 69 blocks | 68 giveaways | 88 takeaways | 50 hits | 99 hits against | 55% on faceoffs (out of 1053)
Player B: Last 82gp | 21:42 TOI per game | 41g 39a1 25a1 105p | 318 shots | 657 CF | 37 blocks | 64 giveaways | 46 takeaways | 60 hits | 90 hits against | 43% on faceoffs (out of 1003)

Player A (5v5) Last 82gp | 16:55 TOI per game | 34g 14a1 6a2 54p | 247 shots | 442 CF | 63 blocks | 62 giveaways | 84 takeaways | 48 hits | 86 hits against | 55% on faceoffs (out of 995)
Player B (5v5) Last 82gp | 16:52 TOI per game | 23g 27a1 10a2 60p | 266 shots | 443 CF | 32 blocks | 51 giveaways | 40 takeaways | 52 hits | 77 hits against | 44% on faceoffs (out of 912)

And yeah, I hear you complaining about how their most common linemates compare, so here's this too

Player A's most common linemates last season (19-20) at 5v5
1. 12g 12a 24p in 51 games ***
2. 21g 19a 40p in 68 games *
3. 3g 12a 15p in 43 games *
4. 9g 27a 36p in 59 games **
again - their 5v5 stats

Player B's most common linemates at last season at 5v5
1. 10g 12a 22p in 54 games ***
2. 17g 15a 32p in 58 games *
3. 9g 13a 22p in 42 games **
4. 10g 16a 26p in 42 games *
again - their 5v5 stats

both PRETTY similar

Ok fine, what about JUST the last season which was a normal, non covid year (2018-2019)?
2018-2019
Player A: 68gp | 18:32 TOI per game | 37g 23a1 13a2 73p | 251 shots | 447 CF | 60 blocks | 67 giveaways | 57 takeaways | 28 hits | 105 hits against | 51% on faceoffs (out of 911)
Player B: 82gp | 22:05 TOI per game | 41g 32a1 26a2 99p | 365 shots | 589 CF | 31 blocks | 64 giveaways | 48 takeaways | 54 hits | 95 hits against | 44% on faceoffs (out of 1183)

And at 5v5?
Player A: 138gp | 15:25 TOI per game | 25g 16a1 10a2 51p | 182 shots | 336 CF | 54 blocks | 56 giveaways | 51 takeaways | 25 hits | 94 hits against | 53% on faceoffs (out of 892)
Player B: 151gp | 17:13 TOI per game | 23g 17a1 9a2 49p | 242 shots | 382 CF | 31 blocks | 48 giveaways | 46 takeaways | 49 hits | 49 hits against | 43% on faceoffs (out of 1039)

hopefully this finally puts to this silly debate to bed. I love #34 but cmon guys. I use analytics to defend Nylander all the time, but you can't say #34 is even close to the player that MacKinnon is


Somebody puts way too much time and energy into a site with fake GMs. Trying too hard to look like an expert but this much BS just looks pathetic.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:37 p.m.
#39
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Quoting: Sean4417
Somebody puts way too much time and energy into a site with fake GMs. Trying too hard to look like an expert but this much BS just looks pathetic.


hey man, when I say matthews > mackinnon, I had to come prepared, can't just say stuff, these people on the forums are vicious ^exhibit A

besides, I just got a bunch of people to question their entire world view and seriously consider whether matthews was as good as mackinnon

kinda worth it imo
Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:50 p.m.
#40
LETS go PENS
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
hey man, when I say matthews > mackinnon, I had to come prepared, can't just say stuff, these people on the forums are vicious ^exhibit A

besides, I just got a bunch of people to question their entire world view and seriously consider whether matthews was as good as mackinnon

kinda worth it imo


Do one with their last 3 years!! You r conveniently doing 4 to get that one MacKinmon year in there.
Nov. 12, 2020 at 9:56 p.m.
#41
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Mackinnon is definitely better right now, but don't forget that Matthews is about 2 years younger.

It's hard to compare over their whole careers since Mackinnon has a very weird career trajectory where he was a good player for the first couple seasons and then out of nowhere exploded into an elite player 3 years ago. Matthews has been elite his whole career, but to a lesser extent than Mackinnon is currently.

With Crosby getting older (yes I know he is still very elite), I think Matthews will be pushing for #3 best C in the league over the next couple years, and it could even be as soon as next season.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:06 p.m.
#42
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Edited Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:22 p.m.
Quoting: HockeyTownUSA69
Do one with their last 3 years!! You r conveniently doing 4 to get that one MacKinmon year in there.


no i just did last 4 because that includes all of matthew's seasons

last 3 years is:
matthews 200gp: 19:10 TOI | 118G 60A1 38A1 216P | 728SF | 1264 CF | 181 Blocks | 174 giveaways | 194 takeaways | 84 hits | 277 hits against | 54% faceoffs (2519)
mackinnon 225gp: 21:05 TOI | 115G 107A1 67A2 289P | 967 SF | 1637 CF | 84 Blocks | 158 giveaways | 122 takeaways | 143 hits | 250 hits against | 43% faceoffs (3180)

5v5:
matthews 200gp: 16:00 TOI | 83G 42A1 20A2 145P | 536SF | 756 CF | 165 Blocks | 154 giveaways | 184 takeaways | 81 hits | 249 hits against | 54% faceoffs (2370)
mackinnon 225gp: 16:25 TOI | 70G 63A1 29A2 162P | 682SF | 880CF | 76 Blocks | 122 giveaways | 113 takeaways | 129 hits | 212 hits against | 42% faceoffs (2746)

5v5, where they get similar icetime, matthews is very much in the same realm as MacKinnon (in fact, if you adjust GP, he actually beats him by a point, assuming matthews also played 225 games), especially defensively, and again 2 years younger with 25 less games played and about 1-2 minutes less per game (because of babcock underplaying him)
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:08 p.m.
#43
McDavid GOAT
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Quoting: Sean4417
Somebody puts way too much time and energy into a site with fake GMs. Trying too hard to look like an expert but this much BS just looks pathetic.


Lol, he just posted like 50 billion stats and you have none. And you are trying to roast him? That is the definition of trolling.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:09 p.m.
#44
Breadman likes Bread
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Quoting: Sean4417
Somebody puts way too much time and energy into a site with fake GMs. Trying too hard to look like an expert but this much BS just looks pathetic.


Who are you again? The guy worked hard on gather the statistics together to prove a point. When you’re older, you’ll most likely be asked to present numbers/stats in a work meeting. It’s the same exact principle. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but for crapping on someone else for it isn’t cool bro.
Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:15 p.m.
#45
I want Gourde back
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Quoting: yikes
He’s close to that tier. His offensive output is insane and he and mcdavid OFFENSIVELY are in their own tier. I wouldn’t put Leon with the big three but offensively; he and Mcdavid make their own tier.


And they're on the same team.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:19 p.m.
#46
Aviation go brrrrrrr
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Quoting: MaxDomi13
McDavid > MacK/Crosby > Matthews


In terms of overall play, Sid and MacK are in a whole different league, compared to McDavid
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:21 p.m.
#47
McDavid GOAT
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Haha and I thought player one was Mackinnon. You fooled me. I think Mack is better right now but Matthews is a top 5 player in the nhl IMO.

However, I did think it was odd that it was you doing a thread like this. When I saw it, LyleBubas was the last name I expected to post it. Now I see why. Good job.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:23 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: Saskleaf
However, I did think it was odd that it was you doing a thread like this. When I saw it, LyleBubas was the last name I expected to post it. Now I see why. Good job.


cmon you really think I'd pour over millions of advanced analytics for 2 hours if it didn't prove that a leafs player was INSANELY underrated
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:24 p.m.
#49
LETS go PENS
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For everyone’s enjoyment!! Look up his legendary 5 minute shift.
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Nov. 12, 2020 at 10:29 p.m.
#50
stand with naz
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
In terms of overall play, Sid and MacK are in a whole different league, compared to McDavid


higher up?
 
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